45568 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Hornby's latest B17 is, in my opinion, one of their best models. History records that I actually saw only two in spotting days, 61620 and 61666. 'Clumber' I'm pretty sure I saw on a rare visit to Sheffield Victoria. When the model was first released I purchased Grimsby town and renamed it Nottingham Forest. By now aware of class differences, Thorpe Hall was renamed Naworth Castle, the last B17/1 in service. These models were covered here a couple of years ago in this forum. Wishing to model Clumber, I purchased another Thorpe Hall, and looked at the alterations necessary to convert it from a B17/1 to a B17/6. This means a different number and placement of washout plugs to represent the 100A boiler. I looked at adding/moving extra plugs, but felt it would be difficult without compromising the excellent finish. A simple remedy was to purchase another Grimsby Town, and carry out a nameplate/tender swap and change the tender emblem for the later style that 61620 received fairly early on. Numbers/emblems are HMRS pressfix. Voila... an instant small-tendered B17/6! This of course leaves us with a Diagram 100 boiler loco. and a 4200 gallon. G.S. tender. Back to the books. Only 61667 and 61660 carried the Dia.100 boiler in the late 1950's to the end of their careers. An obvious choice would be 61667, only one number to change from 61637! However, this loco. was withdrawn in June 1958, whereas 61660 lasted until June 1960, and definitely carried the later crest. The choice was made! Reseach showd that 61660 was one of the class Westinghouse fitted, and photos clearly show it was thus until withdrawal. A search through the bottomless spares trays found a suitable W/M pump, which was fettled and altered to more closely resemble the protoype, (Swinger's Power of the B17s proving very useful here)! Pipe runs were made from piano wire. The nameplates are a combination of Olivia's Trains beautifully printed club colours, and Modelmaster etched plates, an expensive way to go, but worth it in my opinion.The Olivia's plates are excellent in their own right though, and well worth the money, especially the lined and striped plates! The Hornby detail was added, not forgetting the extra pipe on the bufferbeam, and 61660 is ready for the road, ( I need to put a 31B shedplate on)! Edit: Or it would be if the bogie wheels were on the track!! A very enjoyable exercise, resuling in two models not yet scheduled for production in this form. Thanks to Hornby for the marvellous raw material to start with. Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I may be wrong (I'm drawing on memory alone here), but wasn't Hull City put back into traffic after being officially withdrawn and having the nameplates removed - and ran with 'Borstal (Schools Class)' chalked on the splashers until finally and terminally withdrawn a few days later? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted September 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2014 Very nice, Peter! I'm inclined to agree with you, that the B17 is one of their best models. I've also renumbered a 'Grimsby Town', as 61652 'Darlington' (this Cambridge engine seems to have been photographed a lot towards the end of its life on King's Cross trains), and was interested to see that your replaced cabside numerals appear slightly lighter in photographs than the printed ones. I used 'Methfix' transfers, and found the same thing myself; however the difference is hardly apparent at all to the naked eye! I wasn't aware of the 'football colours' produced by Olivia's Trains until I read your post, and painted the horizontal black and white stripes for 'Darlington' myself, and used Modelmasters plates. However I'm not happy with my hand painted efforts! Having now looked at Olivia's web site, it appears their items are the coloured splasher and nameplate printed as one item? If so, did you cut away the printed nameplate before you applied the colours to the splasher, or did you stick the Modelmasters plate on top of the printed one? I assume from your picture, the 'colours' are transfers - or are they some kind of paper label? As you say, they're not cheap but produce a good result. I was hoping Hornby would bring out a Westinghouse fitted one in BR livery but there doesn't seem to be any sign of this and I'm sure I could dig out a cast pump from my own stash, and do something with my 'Thorpe Hall' along the lines of what you've done. Thanks though for pointing out the different types of boilers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I am considering creating B2 61671 Royal Soveriegn using a Hornby B1 and B17 chassis but am wondering whether the two are compatible in terms of swapping components. Does anybody have experience/knowledge of this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Very nice, Peter! I'm inclined to agree with you, that the B17 is one of their best models. I've also renumbered a 'Grimsby Town', as 61652 'Darlington' (this Cambridge engine seems to have been photographed a lot towards the end of its life on King's Cross trains), and was interested to see that your replaced cabside numerals appear slightly lighter in photographs than the printed ones. I used 'Methfix' transfers, and found the same thing myself; however the difference is hardly apparent at all to the naked eye! I wasn't aware of the 'football colours' produced by Olivia's Trains until I read your post, and painted the horizontal black and white stripes for 'Darlington' myself, and used Modelmasters plates. However I'm not happy with my hand painted efforts! Having now looked at Olivia's web site, it appears their items are the coloured splasher and nameplate printed as one item? If so, did you cut away the printed nameplate before you applied the colours to the splasher, or did you stick the Modelmasters plate on top of the printed one? I assume from your picture, the 'colours' are transfers - or are they some kind of paper label? As you say, they're not cheap but produce a good result. I was hoping Hornby would bring out a Westinghouse fitted one in BR livery but there doesn't seem to be any sign of this and I'm sure I could dig out a cast pump from my own stash, and do something with my 'Thorpe Hall' along the lines of what you've done. Thanks though for pointing out the different types of boilers! Hi Steve, The Olivia's plates are printed as a single item, they are a sticky metallic label which are shaped to fit over the football. I cut off the nameplate part with a scalpel to just leave the club colours. As I said, from the usual 3' distance, the Olivia's plates are quite effective. They also include a waterslide transfer for the cabside and front numberplate. I didn't use these either! The Footballer splasher plate is a plastic moulding which is quite easily removed from the Hornby body for work to be carried out. I found it beneficial to smooth the front of the plate as there seems to raised line on the curve of the nameplate. The B17/1 has a metal splasher and name, similar to the Scot and Patriot. As you say, the colour difference in the numbers seems to be enhanced by the camera! Peter Swingers book is a good source of pix of these locos, valuable if you want to model an accurate example at a set time. Cheers, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Boco_D1 Posted September 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 5, 2014 What a lovely job Peter and I couldn't agree more Hornby's B17 is an excellent model, I liked my Sandringham so much I bought her twice (although intened to rename one as a Cambridge based Loco, still thumbing through my power of the b17's to decided which one). It would be nice to see variants feature in future Hornby cattalogues, an LNER footballer and a B17/5 would be perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted September 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 5, 2014 Hi Peter, Thanks for explaining the Olivia's product. It certainly looks the part on your loco, and the more I look at my hand painted version of Darlington's colours the more I think I should send for some! I separated the 'splasher fronts' from the loco body in order to paint them and discovered, as you say, that they are plastic, as I managed to break one! This was after I'd successfully removed it and while I was trying to smooth out the raised line you mention. Luckily I was able to glue it back together again with a reasonably invisible join. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I am considering creating B2 61671 Royal Soveriegn using a Hornby B1 and B17 chassis but am wondering whether the two are compatible in terms of swapping components. Does anybody have experience/knowledge of this? I have got to much the same place. I own both current Hornby models, and a B2 is there in potential when the body parts required are considered, but there would be a mighty amount of hacking and chopping to break the two bodies down, and then some very clever 'invisible mending' to blend them into a credible B2. There's no real obstacle to putting a set of B1 cylinders and gear on the B17 chassis to make it a 2 cylinder configuration But these two models are too good for this treatment. My plan for a B2 is the old push along B17, the loco chassis of which is easy enough to motorise, and a carve up of the B17 loco body, with the body, cylinders and gear of a clapped out Bach or Replica split chassis B1. The old B17 body has easily separated splashers which can migrate to the B1 body footplate, among other things. (The tender to be considered as a separate item, as I really fancy one of the ex-NER jobs salvaged from a C7, to give a distinctively different appearance to both the B1 and B17 with GER tender.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 I am considering creating B2 61671 Royal Soveriegn using a Hornby B1 and B17 chassis but am wondering whether the two are compatible in terms of swapping components. Does anybody have experience/knowledge of this? I follow with my efforts from the early 1990s using a tender drive B17, and the Crownline kit to convert same into a B2. I had had many happy hours with Crownline detailing kits previously. The problem with this one was the sheer amount of etched brass.It became clear that the kit as it came was beyond me! Thinking on my feet I purchased a Replica B1 body and used the footplate, boiler and smokebox from it. The cab was fabricated from the B17 cab, and used the brass cabsides from the kit for the B2, which were etched. The other detailing parts used from the kit includer the splashers, seen above, and various other castings, chimney etc. I am not sure of the provenance of the cylinders after all this time, but the kit provided the means to fabricate a likeness of the ex. NE tender, which was ideal for 61639. The whole frankenstein creation was brush-painted, (Humbrol 104), lined with Kemco lining, HMRS pressfix, and a plate from J/Evans. Weathered using my water colour Gouache technique. One thing noted today, after digging the poor creature from my tender-drive graveyard, is that the ride height is high at the front. It probably always was, but I was less concerned about those things then! I am tempted to try and bring the old girl into C21, especially after seeing what a kit-built B2 went for on Ebay the other day! I am thinking to use a current Footballer, and substitute B1 cylinders and motion. I will have to see what Peters Spares have available. There is obviously space in the body for the motor, and I'm sure the tender top could be coaxed on to the current Hornby frames from the B17/6. All thoughts and comments welcome of course! Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapman Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Graham King did one back in 2009. He used a Bachmann B1 Body and chassis fitted with wheels from a Bachmann A1 and the cab from a Hornby B17. See here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=46312 Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Oddly enough, the thing I found with the Crownline B1/B2 detail and conversion etch was that the curved front frame profiles for the B2 were actually much more correct for the B1 than the ones provided for the B1! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Excellent model, I just wish my hands were good enough to get to that standard. Just a thought if you are updating. The late Willie Yeadon checked EVERY B17/B2 at the point of withdrawal/scrapping and states definitively that none of the class ever received a heraldically correct late BR crest- those that got a late crest (listed in the Yeadon Register) all went for scrap with the lion facing the chimney on both sides of the tender. All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I may be wrong (I'm drawing on memory alone here), but wasn't Hull City put back into traffic after being officially withdrawn and having the nameplates removed - and ran with 'Borstal (Schools Class)' chalked on the splashers until finally and terminally withdrawn a few days later? No, I think that was a Maunsell "Schools" which had "Borstal" graffitied on it. Another "Schools", 30902 "Wellington" had the addition of "Boot"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbeagleowner Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Can anyone tell me please is Welbeck Abbey a B17/3 or B17/6? I would like to rename it as hinchingbrooke which only became a 6 in 1957 and I'm not sure would have had the early emblem. Thanks very much in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted October 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2016 Can anyone tell me please is Welbeck Abbey a B17/3 or B17/6? I would like to rename it as hinchingbrooke which only became a 6 in 1957 and I'm not sure would have had the early emblem. Thanks very much in advance! B17/2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiDAS Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 No, I think that was a Maunsell "Schools" which had "Borstal" graffitied on it. Another "Schools", 30902 "Wellington" had the addition of "Boot"! B17 off 31B March with Borstal Schools class chalked on. Have photo somewhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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