Midland Railway 1F locomotives

[Adams442T]

I have just purchased a Bachmann Midland 1F half-cab locomotive which I am modifying to original Midland condition.  

 

I was wondering if any member knew the Midland numbers of locomotives that were stationed around London in Midland days?  I believe some were based at Cricklewood, but I don't have any loco numbers.

 

I have all the numbers of half-cabs surviving into LMS ownership via Jenkinson's excellent Locomotive liveries of the LMS, but no locations.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Adams442T

[John_Miles]

What sort of time period are you thinking of/ I can supply numbers.

 

Also to convert to Midland condition will require major surgery. None of these locos had a Belpaire firebox in Midland days. They would therefore have had Salter safety valves before rebuilding (Gibson do a suitable dome). If you really want to be picky, the frames are too heavy, all locos were given replacement frames from the 1920s onwards. There should be a lock up safety valve on the firebox (again Gibson do these) and I think the chimney on the kit is a Stanier version - but you would need to check this. Depending on your chosen period, it should be a Deeley or Johnson chimney. Nobody makes a decent Johnson chimney. Gibson do have an offering but it is wrong. It might be easier to buy a Craftsman kit and make what you want from that or go LMS. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[Adams442T]

What sort of time period are you thinking of/ I can supply numbers.

 

Also to convert to Midland condition will require major surgery. None of these locos had a Belpaire firebox in Midland days. They would therefore have had Salter safety valves before rebuilding (Gibson do a suitable dome). If you really want to be picky, the frames are too heavy, all locos were given replacement frames from the 1920s onwards. There should be a lock up safety valve on the firebox (again Gibson do these) and I think the chimney on the kit is a Stanier version - but you would need to check this. Depending on your chosen period, it should be a Deeley or Johnson chimney. Nobody makes a decent Johnson chimney. Gibson do have an offering but it is wrong. It might be easier to buy a Craftsman kit and make what you want from that or go LMS. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Thanks John.  I was thinking of about 1905/10 to run alongside my NLR & LTSR locos, which are covering that period.  I have had some answers on the Bachmann 1F thread, but they concern BR days, and the half-cabs I'm considering are 1724 and 1811.  Of course they might not have been around London at that time I realise.

 

I do have some good photos of them in Midland days, and I posted a list on that thread of the half-cabs that lasted through to LMS days, from Jenkinson's Locomotive Liveries of the LMS.

 

I'm not too daunted by converting it to a round boiler, as fortunately there seems to be plenty of room unlike trying to convert the G2 back to LNWR condition.  I wasn't aware of the problems with the Johnson chimneys so that's another factor.  Nothing worse than knowing a chimney is wrong I find as it shouts at you every time you look at it!

[John_Miles]

OK Kentish Town 1377 0-6-0Ts around the time period you are interested in :-

 

1660 to 1675, 1721, 1722

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Peter

 

1905-1910, just when the MR was in the middle of its big livery change from the finnery of the Johnson period to the simpler Deeley livery. It also coincides with the renumbering of 1907. And to top the lot locos started to appear with the new Deeley smokeboxes and chimneys.

 

So you could have locos in Johnson livery with old number and old smokebox, or new livery, old number and old smokebox, or old livery, new number, old smokebox, or new livery, new number, old smokebox or new livery, old number, new smokebox or new livery, new number , new smokebox, and all at the same time. These are possibilities not confirmed by photos, but look hard enough and most would be found.

 

Post 1910 until the LMS re-livery of 1927 things were pretty settled.

[Adams442T]

Hi Peter

 

1905-1910, just when the MR was in the middle of its big livery change from the finnery of the Johnson period to the simpler Deeley livery. It also coincides with the renumbering of 1907. And to top the lot locos started to appear with the new Deeley smokeboxes and chimneys.

 

So you could have locos in Johnson livery with old number and old smokebox, or new livery, old number and old smokebox, or old livery, new number, old smokebox, or new livery, new number, old smokebox or new livery, old number, new smokebox or new livery, new number , new smokebox, and all at the same time. These are possibilities not confirmed by photos, but look hard enough and most would be found.

 

Post 1910 until the LMS re-livery of 1927 things were pretty settled.

Thanks for that Clive, it makes things a lot simpler! I think I'll opt for 1912................

[John_Miles]

By 1912 you could go for unlined black for some 1Fs but as suggested above, a photo would be necessary to ensure you have got it right. Having said that, there is nothing better than the full Johnson livery, if you are good at lining or have enough cash to pay someone to do it.

 

There was a transitional livery around this time of a sort of brown - if you are going for this, borrow a copy of Midland Style be George Dow. It has colour samples in the back.

[MarkC]

Even more spectacular were the locomotives which got even more flamboyant lining out - IIRC it was accredited to Weatherburn at Kentish Town?

[John_Miles]

A full Weatherburn paint job would be wonderful but probably a job for someone like Ian Rathbone. The result is wonderful but his waiting list is several years. He has a Taff Vale U1 of mine which is still not ready after 3 years.

[mikesndbs]

LOL just bumping this topic, were these right hand drive, looks like it from the models cab?

 

Thanks

[LMS2968]

All Midland engines were right hand drive, as were the first lots built by the LMS. About 1925, NEW locos built to Midland designs  were built with left hand drive.

[Caledonian]

I don't recall the numbers [or where I found them] but I believe the most northerly allocation was Carlisle - or did any creep further north during the early LMS period?