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LMS livery life-span and works repainting


bill badger

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I'm planning to model some Period 1 coaches (and perhaps ultimately some pre-grouping LNWR or L&Y kits) to use on a 'bottom of the pile' branch service set in the late 30's.

 

I've searched quite a bit but can't find any info on how liveries might have changed / been re-applied on older coaches. Would the initial, fully lined livery of Period 1 coaches have been replaced with a simpler scheme? Roughly how often were coaches repainted? Would there have been a mix of liveries seen on early coaches of the same Diagram in their later LMS years?

 

Can anyone help shed some light?

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This is a question I have mulled over Bill, and it has been discussed in one or two threads.  I'm building a period II pull push set and want to do a period I rake.  These coaches were outshopped with Midland style panelled livery.

 

Simplified lining came in in 1934 so that even few period III coaches, introduced in 1932, had Midland style lining.

 

A change from panelled lining to simplified would have happened during a full repaint.  I have never seen a photo of a period I or II coach in simplified lining.  Many period I coaches were converted to ambulances in the war.

 

Having said all that, I don't know how often coaches were fully repainted, 10 years seems reasonable.  In the war years, my guess is that full repaints were not done.  Given all that, my belief is that period I coaches in simplified lining would be pretty rare.  This didn't stop Bachmann from doing theirs in an incorrect simplified lining. 

 

I have seen that the B period I coach is being re-released and it looks like they may have the full treatment.

 

John

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Jenkinson & Essery (LMS Coaches) say "Coaches were usually repainted every six or seven years, except during the war, ..." I infer from what they say that full repaints were to the latest spec. There is another comment about limited repainting on coaches with a limited (<4 years) remaining lifespan.

There is mention of coaches just receiving touch-up and varnishing in between.

Full lining was stopped about the end of 1933, so it probably took to 1940 for it all to disappear -- and then the war.

So you could have some nice shiny coaches with simple livery and a few faded ones with full lining.

Question: would the shed have shipped an entire train off to the paint works or just one coach every few weeks?  Would Derby have sent out a fresh train and taken the faded one back?

There would also be occasions where a coach was repainted after an accident. Now we wonder if they would match the old version or redo the whole coach.

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Thanks for your thoughts everyone; it was only after you mentioned the earlier thread, John, that I managed to find it! Some food for thought; I suspect it would be 'appropriate' should the odd later liveried period 1 pop up amongst its more faded and shabby friends (and I suspect they will have to quite dirty too as I have never use either transfers or a bow pen before; straight lines look bad enough, but doing the full monty looks like a minefield, especially to do it a standard I'd be happy with).

 

Having just looked to remind myself what's involved in early LMS lining the thought occurs: 'Now why did I decide to model the 1930's period LMS again...?' :scratchhead:

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You're right Bill, these early coaches are very complex.  I'm experimenting with making my own transfers.  I did this for some ornate LSWR coaches (there's a thread on here somewhere I think) and that turned out reasonable.

 

John

 

Here it is: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77374-a-rake-of-lswr-coaches/  

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That's an interesting read - thanks. The end result is very good.

 

Anyway there's nothing for it, I'll just have to start at the beginning with some simple lining versions and attempt some early liveries as and when I feel able; if not I may just have to save up pay someone who can! As ever with 'Rule 1', if I manage to produce some bashed Airfix or new build kits that I'm happy with (even with a wrong or rare livery) then that'll do me for starters!

 

I'll start researching draughting pens while I actually build the things; although with the sad news at Comet I don't think construction will be underway any time soon. I'll select a good pen and start practising, in between bouts of track building...

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Yes, Rule 1 had occurred to me.  There are those who can do an excellent job with a lining pen, I've tried a bowpen once or twice but can't get anything like a decent line.  I've considered getting a lining pen - Bob Moore's get high ratings.  I can build coaches quite well but I'm still not comfortable with painting - you only get better by doing, and sometimes failing.

 

As you say, it really is a learning curve.  Even applying the Pressfix lining transfers is no picnic.

 

I was shocked and greatly saddened by the news from Comet.  I just bought a bunch of stuff a week or so before.

 

John

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