Down_Under Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hi All, I am starting to model some of the standard gauge ironstone railways around the midlands and oxfordshire (in 4mm scale) over in Australia. I have a collection of iron ore tipplers, 16t mineral wagons and hoppers that I am working on (will post when they are a little more complete). However, I wanted to model something a little different.On browsing through a couple of Eric Tonks' books for insperation, I spy a fleet of "American Dump Car Wagons". I see that some have made it into preservations at Rutland; http://www.rocks-by-rail.org/exhibit/dumpcar-wagons/ From 'Industrial Wagons - An Introduction' they have the basic dimensions (p.36) - Length 11ft6in, Height 7ft6in, Wheelbase 6ft6in - pretty basic stuff, but no wheel diameter, width etc. They seem to have been made by the Glouster Wagon Works. Currently that is all the information that I have. Does anyone know of any kits of these wagons, or have any scale drawings that could be used to scratch build? Would be gratefull of any information received. I do note that Bachmann do make a Ho03 (?) scale model of dump car - Not sure if the chassis would be a starting point (there are some slight differences) - but I cannot seem to figure out if they are the approximate correct scale (chassis only). Many thanks in advance, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) Bachmanns wagons are On30, from memory they would be pretty big for OO as they were fairly tall in O scale but it would be interesting to put one next to a OO loco to see. Found these dimensions online http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAYG2 Scale: On30 1/48 Length: 2-5/8" (6.7cm) Width: 1-5/8" (4.1cm) Height: 1-1/2" (3.8cm) Edited September 18, 2014 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I believe they are on the to do list from RT Models! http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/ Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hi James, Likewise, I'm also building a UK Ironstone layout. I'm also a volunteer at Rocks by Rail in Rutland. We made a copy of the general arrangement diagram for these wagons available to RT models, so hopefully they will appear in due course. Kind regards Paul A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Thanks for the replies everyone. Bachmanns wagons are On30, from memory they would be pretty big for OO as they were fairly tall in O scale but it would be interesting to put one next to a OO loco to see.Found these dimensions onlinehttp://www3.towerhob...0001p?&I=LXAYG2Scale: On30 1/48Length: 2-5/8" (6.7cm)Width: 1-5/8" (4.1cm)Height: 1-1/2" (3.8cm) PaulRhB - thanks for the measurements - I did get my scales briefly muddled up - seems like the underframes would still be a little too big - at 4mm scale the wheel base should be 2.4cm and overal length 4.4cm (approximatly). I believe they are on the to do list from RT Models!http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/Mark Saunders Hi James, Likewise, I'm also building a UK Ironstone layout. I'm also a volunteer at Rocks by Rail in Rutland. We made a copy of the general arrangement diagram for these wagons available to RT models, so hopefully they will appear in due course. Kind regards Paul A. Mark and Paul, that is excellent news. Thanks for the tip-off, will be keeping an eye on there web page. On the ironstone note, I revieved a email from CSP models today stating that they will be releasing a 14" Hudswell ST, which would be sutiable to use to model the Wroxton Ironstone Quarries locomotives "Gwen" and "Mary" in the new year also. Thank you all very much, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) This is a copy of the official photo of one of a batch of ten supplied to Hams Hall Power Station! Mark Saunders Edited September 19, 2014 by Mark Saunders 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted September 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) Yes it is on my to do list, body nice easy etching, chassis a pig to design in any medium! Chassis will probably be cast in white metal. Was planning on getting these done this year but will follow Behind the streamlined sentinel and Thomas hill vanguard and transfers somewhere there. Edited September 20, 2014 by RThompson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Thanks for the replies everyone. A couple of images from Eric Tonks book - the Oxfordshire ironstone field. RThompson - could you do white metal sides (or resin?), but with the 4 cross braces between the sides and the longitudinal "girder" in brass I channel? Or perhaps etched brass plate, with white metal axle boxes, which has to be soldered up? Although I suppose that would be quite fiddly, and a template or jig would be needed to ensure squareness. Does anyone have any photos or any information on the unloading facilities for these wagons? Was it a glorified coal drop type situation? James 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 I also note a slight design variation between the power station example and the ironstone example. The later has some extra bracing straps above the drawbar and slightly different door opening mechanism. Are both ends symmetrical? Or are there some differences ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Flicking through the books that I have - started to note a few design differences between the wagons. This example from the Industrial Wagon Book (IR Society) has different door linkages to the ones above, and also has a slightly different hand wheel location - does anyone know what this is for? Brakes? Tipping mechanism? This wagon seems to have a hand wheel incorporated into the pivot, whereas the one above has it to the side. Robert - I had been working on a design myself to scratch build - happy to send you my doodles. Jamsa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Rutland don't seem to nhave treated theirs very well (recognising they have limited resources). Please respect my copyright and do not post elsewhere. Jon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Well, they're all back on the rails now, and have moved across the site as of 2 months ago. We did very well to even get these out of Corby, we were donated 19 wagons all told!. Ours were latterly used to carry sand/spoil to repair landslips etc. We believe they are actually from Wroxton, and we have blueprints (also rescued from Corby) which are marked OIC. The two which are missing their tops were used by BSC to overhaul class 14 engines, where they could be worked on from a good height while remaining mobile. There was also a snow plough variant (see Tonks. book). The hand wheels are for brakes. There are at least 2 build diagrams in the Ironstone cars alone, type A and B - which are minor differences surrounding the brake handwheel etc. As far as unloading was concerned, these would be tipped from a high level into wagons below (Cranford quarry)- or perhaps a crusher (Wroxton quarries), then loaded into hoppers. Also of note are the 2 "3-skip wagons" in the last photograph, these being used to deliver ore onto calcining banks (where the ore is burnt with coal dust to drive off moisture). These are also the only survivors. Paul A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Wow, great photos. I did notice the calcing wagons - again, these would make a nice little addition in model form. I've seen a few pictures of these - I think they even did a 3ft gauge version also(?) Do you know what under frames they used - they look a little longer than a 9 of 10ft. At a guess, did the buffers appear (on the dump cars) when they made there way to Corby? Looks like all the photos that I have seen with the wagons operating in there natural habitats, the locomotives had knuckle couplers attached. J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yes, the conventional draw gear was fitted while at Corby. The 3-skip wagons use an interesting frame, which I have not been able to find a close replica to just yet... Paul A. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Flicking through the books that I have - started to note a few design differences between the wagons. This example from the Industrial Wagon Book (IR Society) has different door linkages to the ones above, and also has a slightly different hand wheel location - does anyone know what this is for? Brakes? Tipping mechanism? This wagon seems to have a hand wheel incorporated into the pivot, whereas the one above has it to the side. Robert - I had been working on a design myself to scratch build - happy to send you my doodles. Jamsa "Industrial wagons an introduction" by David Monk-Steel is still available from the "Industrial Railway Society! see this link http://www.irsociety.co.uk/books/books.htm Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted September 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 24, 2014 The conventional buffing gear will be made a option for those who do not have the means to couple up to buckeye couplings. Should make a start after warley hopefully. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 The conventional buffing gear will be made a option for those who do not have the means to couple up to buckeye couplings. Should make a start after warley hopefully. This is excellent news. I can see an industrial railway for me in the near future now.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 The conventional buffing gear will be made a option for those who do not have the means to couple up to buckeye couplings. Should make a start after warley hopefully. Great news Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 Yes, the conventional draw gear was fitted while at Corby. The 3-skip wagons use an interesting frame, which I have not been able to find a close replica to just yet... Paul A. I will dig out a few books and have a flick through to see if I can shed any more light on the under frames. It's a long weekend here, so I won't get around until early next week. I seem to remember some May have had wooden under frames. Should be simplistic to model, providing a similar-ish under frame can be sourced.... James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatty 139 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 This is a copy of the official photo of one of a batch of ten supplied to Hams Hall Power Station! Mark Saunders LR CEGB Dump Car.jpg This is a copy of the official photo of one of a batch of ten supplied to Hams Hall Power Station! Mark Saunders LR CEGB Dump Car.jpg Any ideas how these wagons were worked with the knuckle couplers at Hams Hall? No sign of special drawgear on the Peckett's or the big RSH's so did they have translator wagons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Any ideas how these wagons were worked with the knuckle couplers at Hams Hall? No sign of special drawgear on the Peckett's or the big RSH's so did they have translator wagons? Alas I do not know as it was a complete surprise that these ones existed till I found the official print! Mark saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hey Mark and Beatty, Found a couple of images that show the knuckle coupler adapters on the locos. Looks like they also have 3 link couplings as well. J 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 Even the sentinels had the adapter bracket, but in this case minus the coupler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Coupling pockets on the Sentinels are removed from the steam locos they replaced. That photo of the Sentinel shows one of the "boys" - denotable by its vacuum brake gear Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 This sort of wagon wouldn't have been confined to ironstone quarries; other potential uses would be harbour authorities (for breakwater maintenance), brickworks and cement works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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