rope runner Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Although possible in theory, in practise this design actually harks back to american iron ore quarries. The concept was exported alongside their bogie-mounted steam navvies of Bucyrus Ilk (although dump car design took an additional 10 year-ish to materialise) Paul A. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatty 139 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I was aware of the couplings on the Ironstone locos, It was the Hams Hall Power Station one that stumped me as I have worked with a couple of City of Birmingham Electricity Department locos in the past and no sign of anything like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I was aware of the couplings on the Ironstone locos, It was the Hams Hall Power Station one that stumped me as I have worked with a couple of City of Birmingham Electricity Department locos in the past and no sign of anything like that. Apologies, I mis-read the original post! J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) A nice colour photograph of a wagon of this type on this link: http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/British-Industrial-Systems/i-FmnHtRK/A Also shows the swinging buckeye coupling mounting plate fitted to the OIC locos - In this case an unusual outside cylinder Hunslet 0-6-0. Paul A. Edited January 5, 2019 by 1whitemoor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Great stuff Paul! Possible the only colour in service photo I've seen. I've found a reference of the odd Hunslet and PM'd you. I've found a couple of photos of that loco in Eric Tonks book on the Oxfordshire ironstone Fields (volume 2). I've also found a few other photos of the calcing skips in use, I'll post them up, maybe in a separate thread(?). Did you ever get a measurement on the wheelbase and length over head stocks for those wagons? J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 No, I'm afraid not: I'm not currently living anywhere near the museum unfortunately. If I get a chance during the xmas period I shall try to get down there. Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Found this picture today (Ironstone quarries of the midlands, v2), showing part of the discharge/crusher with a line of dump cars ready to be tipped into the crusher. If anyone has anymore photos of the crusher layout at Wroxton, that would be great. Would make a nice little layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) In 1988? I went to look at a single rotor hammer mill crusher with an unusual moving crawler track side to the crushing chamber - specially made for sticky material. There were two of them in the yard, they'd obviously been used on iron ore and the dealer told me they had come from Oxfordshire - I concluded they must have been the Wroxton crushers! They were too worn up to be viable to rebuild so I left them there - pretty certain they were scrapped. Small world isn't it…... Edited October 9, 2014 by Osgood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I have been thinking recently about coupling for these wagons in 4mm scale. Ironstone locomotives fitted with buckeyes often (granted, there were other arrangements) had then fitted underneath the draw hook, as per this MW at Corby: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8376/8397266511_b8d365072c_z.jpg The easiest solution would doubtless be to use Kadee system, but this would require a trade-off between correct prototypical height and model operation (as kadee uncoupling operation is, as I understand it, based on height over a magnet). In an attempt to overcome this I'll be trialling these: http://www.sergentengineering.com/ I'll post how I get on, but I'll have to build an appropriate loco first! Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 I have been thinking recently about coupling for these wagons in 4mm scale. Ironstone locomotives fitted with buckeyes often (granted, there were other arrangements) had then fitted underneath the draw hook, as per this MW at Corby: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8376/8397266511_b8d365072c_z.jpg The easiest solution would doubtless be to use Kadee system, but this would require a trade-off between correct prototypical height and model operation (as kadee uncoupling operation is, as I understand it, based on height over a magnet). In an attempt to overcome this I'll be trialling these: http://www.sergentengineering.com/ I'll post how I get on, but I'll have to build an appropriate loco first! Paul A. Good find Paul. Must admit, I haven't done much more research. Made a rough sketch. Kinda to scale, but mostly using proportions from photos. Wheelbase, height and length scale. Width guessed, same for height of frame and depth of body. Acquired a few raw materials but my local shop is a little low on brass strip. Plus I've been tinkering with a class 31. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishswissernie Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Coupling arrangement on Jean, Hudswell Clarke 1696'39, Oxfordshire Iron Co ca 1958 Ernie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) Looks like you can use the "coupling pocket" they advertise as a basis for the coupling pocket on the Oxfordshire examples. Going to order up a couple myself. I've a Judith Edge 16" Hunslet waiting to be built here... What couplings did you end up ordering Paul? EDIT: Although I don't have a suitable 0-4-0 yet...waiting for the CSP 14" Hudswell Clarke Edited November 27, 2014 by Down_Under Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I went for the proper EC87M040RK type, with cast-in eyes. I'll probably solder up some of my own coupling pockets for locos from brass strip. Currently waiting for Hornby to release the Sentinel DH in the correct form. Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim15B Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have an almost complete scratchbuilt brass dumpcar in 7mm with working tip doors. I'll post a photo soon. I made drawings from photos and measurements taken at Rutland a number of years ago. I haven't sorted out the wheels yet, but intend to use Kaydee couplers for the knuckle coupler. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The magazine Railway Bylines has had a photo feature about Wroxton in the December and January editions. They feature long lines of these wagons. Paul Bartlett 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim15B Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Here are some pictures on my 7mm scale model, temporarily assembled. Sorry about the picture quality, I haven't worked out how to reduce picture file sizes, so I took these on my phone. Cheers, Jim 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 That is simply sensational Jim! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted January 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hello everyone, Work will commence shortly on these wagons in 4mm scale. The chassis will be done in white metal as originally envisaged with a etched body and detailing parts. The body will be a basic fold up box to simplify building but if you want it fully working, just snap the sides along the fold line. The kit can be supplied with 8mm disc wheels, however the standard 26mm axle Length looks to pose a problem however there is a solution without compromising on scale width. There will be a option of standard buffer gear as 2 was fitted at Corby but I will also produce at the same time the loco coupler pockets, however how will people want the couplings done? Supply none working Buckeyes that can be slotted together? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Non-working buckeyes (in lost wax?) do sound good, but I wonder if modellers should be left to their own devices for these - similar to your MSC wagons. I see brass masters do their own buckeyes for coaches, but presumably what you are envisaging would be similar to N gauge knuckle ones? Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hello everyone, Work will commence shortly on these wagons in 4mm scale…... Would you consider a 7mm run, Robert? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Some useful photographs of these in use at Wroxton in this months (Jan) Railway Bylines. Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 Blimey, didn't realise it was a year ago that I should have replied, a lot has happened in that time. The couplings I was just going to do in whitemetal to keep the kit cost down. I can do 7mm scale but will take a while as the chassis will be cast. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I just about saw the last gasps of the Northants ironstone field, but I've never seen it modelled Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Found this picture today (Ironstone quarries of the midlands, v2), showing part of the discharge/crusher with a line of dump cars ready to be tipped into the crusher. If anyone has anymore photos of the crusher layout at Wroxton, that would be great. Would make a nice little layout. Just found an article from Railway Modeller September 1963 on this very subject (sorting some old files!). The writer was shown around the Wroxton Crusher installation by the Chief Engineer of Oxfordshire Ironstone Co, so it is reasonable to assume the layout and drawings which he subsequently produced bear at least a reasonable similarity to the real thing. Looks like two primary crushers feeding into one secondary, then by conveyor to an overhead feed hopper? There has to be a storage hopper for loading somewhere, as not possible to start / stop output from crushers without stopping crushers - which would not be practical. I hope it is ok to show an idea of some of the article content below? If not please remove. For better detail you should be able to pick up an old copy. Edited January 23, 2016 by Osgood 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Just found an article from Railway Modeller September 1963 on this very subject (sorting some old files!). The writer was shown around the Wroxton Crusher installation by the Chief Engineer of Oxfordshire Ironstone Co, so it is reasonable to assume the layout and drawings which he subsequently produced bear at least a reasonable similarity to the real thing. Looks like two primary crushers feeding into one secondary, then by conveyor to an overhead feed hopper? There has to be a storage hopper for loading somewhere, as not possible to start / stop output from crushers without stopping crushers - which would not be practical. I hope it is ok to show an idea of some of the article content below? If not please remove. For better detail you should be able to pick up an old copy. Wroxton 1.jpg Wroxton 2.jpg The above article was the inspiration behind the Ironstone part of the Ilford & West Essex MRC's "Eastwell" Layout back in the late 1970's and early 80's. The Ironstone part of the layout declared UDI and became "Mini Eastwell", a purely industrial layout with the main part featuring the Crusher plant and loading hopper based on the Railway Modeller article. This was later expanded to include exchange sidings and the connecting line between that and the crusher. It was last exhibited at York in 2001 before going into retirement, although the majority of the layout is still in existence in store. Here are some photos giving a flavor of the layout. An overall view of the Crusher and hopper area showing how closely it follows the Railway Modeler plans. Another view of the Crusher house and loco shed. Looking towards the Crusher showing the high level sidings for unloading the ore cars coming from the quarrys. The Hopper. This actually worked and loaded wagons with a set amount of "crushed iron ore" via a rotating drum system. Fiendishly clever and prone to jamming. The layout could be exhibited in three different variants. A straight version, an "L" shaped version and a "U" shaped version. The following plans show the layout in its later extended version and give some idea of the variations Layout plan with exchange sidings. The "Eastwell variations" in set up. In the long straight version, as seen in the photo below, the layout was 50 ft in length. In the "L" shape the two sides where around 25ft long each. The straight 50' EIC. The Crusher plant is in the far distance. Another view. This shows the extent of the original "Mini Eastwell" layout. The final version was a "U" shape where the layout bent around on itself so the Crusher and works area was behind the exchange sidings. This was my favourite version as it tended to form the end of an island and visitors would think it was two different layouts before realizing, with surprise, that it was all one. The following shots show the "U" shaped layout, although in this instance only two of the three sides could properly be viewed by the public. It was good fun to operate as it worked like the real thing. Empties came in and loaded went out, with the inevitable complaints from the Crushed/Hopper operator when he ran out of wagons to load. Paul J. Edited to add additional photos and plans. Edited January 24, 2016 by Swindon 123 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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