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Ironstone Railways UK - American Style Dump Car Wagons


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Although possible in theory, in practise this design actually harks back to american iron ore quarries.

 

The concept was exported alongside their bogie-mounted steam navvies of Bucyrus Ilk (although dump car design took an additional 10 year-ish to materialise)

 

bl24657_002.jpg

 

Paul A. 

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I was aware of the couplings on the Ironstone locos, It was the Hams Hall Power Station one that stumped me as I have worked with a couple of City of Birmingham Electricity Department locos in the past and no sign of anything like that.

Apologies, I mis-read the original post!

 

J

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A nice colour photograph of a wagon of this type on this link:

 

http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/British-Industrial-Systems/i-FmnHtRK/A

 

Also shows the swinging buckeye coupling mounting plate fitted to the OIC locos - In this case an unusual outside cylinder Hunslet 0-6-0.

 

Paul A. 

Edited by 1whitemoor
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Great stuff Paul! Possible the only colour in service photo I've seen. I've found a reference of the odd Hunslet and PM'd you. I've found a couple of photos of that loco in Eric Tonks book on the Oxfordshire ironstone Fields (volume 2). I've also found a few other photos of the calcing skips in use, I'll post them up, maybe in a separate thread(?). Did you ever get a measurement on the wheelbase and length over head stocks for those wagons?

 

J

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Found this picture today (Ironstone quarries of the midlands, v2), showing part of the discharge/crusher with a line of dump cars ready to be tipped into the crusher.

 

If anyone has anymore photos of the crusher layout at Wroxton, that would be great. Would make a nice little layout.

post-23366-0-97978800-1412842701_thumb.jpg

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In 1988? I went to look at a single rotor hammer mill crusher with an unusual moving crawler track side to the crushing chamber - specially made for sticky material.  There were two of them in the yard, they'd obviously been used on iron ore and the dealer told me they had come from Oxfordshire - I concluded they must have been the Wroxton crushers!  They were too worn up to be viable to rebuild so I left them there - pretty certain they were scrapped.  Small world isn't it…...

Edited by Osgood
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  • 1 month later...

I have been thinking recently about coupling for these wagons in 4mm scale. 

 

Ironstone locomotives fitted with buckeyes often (granted, there were other arrangements) had then fitted underneath the draw hook, as per this MW at Corby:

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8376/8397266511_b8d365072c_z.jpg

 

The easiest solution would doubtless be to use Kadee system, but this would require a trade-off between correct prototypical height and model operation (as kadee uncoupling operation is, as I understand it, based on height over a magnet).

 

In an attempt to overcome this I'll be trialling these: 

 

http://www.sergentengineering.com/

 

I'll post how I get on, but I'll have to build an appropriate loco first!

 

Paul A. 

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I have been thinking recently about coupling for these wagons in 4mm scale. 

 

Ironstone locomotives fitted with buckeyes often (granted, there were other arrangements) had then fitted underneath the draw hook, as per this MW at Corby:

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8376/8397266511_b8d365072c_z.jpg

 

The easiest solution would doubtless be to use Kadee system, but this would require a trade-off between correct prototypical height and model operation (as kadee uncoupling operation is, as I understand it, based on height over a magnet).

 

In an attempt to overcome this I'll be trialling these: 

 

http://www.sergentengineering.com/

 

I'll post how I get on, but I'll have to build an appropriate loco first!

 

Paul A.

 

Good find Paul. Must admit, I haven't done much more research. Made a rough sketch.

 

post-23366-0-62059700-1415799757_thumb.jpg

 

Kinda to scale, but mostly using proportions from photos. Wheelbase, height and length scale. Width guessed, same for height of frame and depth of body. Acquired a few raw materials but my local shop is a little low on brass strip. Plus I've been tinkering with a class 31.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like you can use the "coupling pocket" they advertise as a basis for the coupling pocket on the Oxfordshire examples.

 

Going to order up a couple myself. I've a Judith Edge 16" Hunslet waiting to be built here...

 

What couplings did you end up ordering Paul?

 

EDIT: Although I don't have a suitable 0-4-0 yet...waiting for the CSP 14" Hudswell Clarke

Edited by Down_Under
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I went for the proper EC87M040RK type, with cast-in eyes. 

 

I'll probably solder up some of my own coupling pockets for locos from brass strip. Currently waiting for Hornby to release the Sentinel DH in the correct form. 

 

Paul A. 

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  • 1 month later...

I have an almost complete scratchbuilt brass dumpcar in 7mm with working tip doors. I'll post a photo soon. I made drawings from photos and measurements taken at Rutland a number of years ago. I haven't sorted out the wheels yet, but intend to use Kaydee couplers for the knuckle coupler.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here are some pictures on my 7mm scale model, temporarily assembled.  Sorry about the picture quality, I haven't worked out how to reduce picture file sizes, so I took these on my phone.

 

post-25126-0-31208900-1422020463_thumb.jpg

 

post-25126-0-55283900-1422020481_thumb.jpg

 

post-25126-0-21947400-1422020498_thumb.jpg

 

post-25126-0-21959600-1422020508_thumb.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

Jim

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Hello everyone,

 

Work will commence shortly on these wagons in 4mm scale.

 

The chassis will be done in white metal as originally envisaged with a etched body and detailing parts.

 

The body will be a basic fold up box to simplify building but if you want it fully working, just snap the sides along the fold line.

 

The kit can be supplied with 8mm disc wheels, however the standard 26mm axle Length looks to pose a problem however there is a solution without compromising on scale width.

 

There will be a option of standard buffer gear as 2 was fitted at Corby but I will also produce at the same time the loco coupler pockets, however how will people want the couplings done? Supply none working Buckeyes that can be slotted together?

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Non-working buckeyes (in lost wax?) do sound good, but I wonder if modellers should be left to their own devices for these  - similar to your MSC wagons.

 

I see brass masters do their own buckeyes for coaches, but presumably what you are envisaging would be similar to N gauge knuckle ones? 

 

Paul A. 

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  • 11 months later...
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Blimey, didn't realise it was a year ago that I should have replied, a lot has happened in that time.

 

The couplings I was just going to do in whitemetal to keep the kit cost down.

 

I can do 7mm scale but will take a while as the chassis will be cast.

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Found this picture today (Ironstone quarries of the midlands, v2), showing part of the discharge/crusher with a line of dump cars ready to be tipped into the crusher.

 

If anyone has anymore photos of the crusher layout at Wroxton, that would be great. Would make a nice little layout.

 

Just found an article from Railway Modeller September 1963 on this very subject (sorting some old files!).

 

The writer was shown around the Wroxton Crusher installation by the Chief Engineer of Oxfordshire Ironstone Co, so it is reasonable to assume the layout and drawings which he subsequently produced bear at least a reasonable similarity to the real thing.

 

Looks like two primary crushers feeding into one secondary, then by conveyor to an overhead feed hopper?  There has to be a storage hopper for loading somewhere, as not possible to start / stop output from crushers without stopping crushers - which would not be practical.

 

I hope it is ok to show an idea of some of the article content below?  If not please remove.  For better detail you should be able to pick up an old copy.

 

post-17823-0-87641800-1453570183_thumb.jpg

 

post-17823-0-46408700-1453570251_thumb.jpg

Edited by Osgood
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Just found an article from Railway Modeller September 1963 on this very subject (sorting some old files!).

 

The writer was shown around the Wroxton Crusher installation by the Chief Engineer of Oxfordshire Ironstone Co, so it is reasonable to assume the layout and drawings which he subsequently produced bear at least a reasonable similarity to the real thing.

 

Looks like two primary crushers feeding into one secondary, then by conveyor to an overhead feed hopper?  There has to be a storage hopper for loading somewhere, as not possible to start / stop output from crushers without stopping crushers - which would not be practical.

 

I hope it is ok to show an idea of some of the article content below?  If not please remove.  For better detail you should be able to pick up an old copy.

 

attachicon.gifWroxton 1.jpg

 

attachicon.gifWroxton 2.jpg

The above article was the inspiration behind the Ironstone part of the Ilford & West Essex MRC's "Eastwell" Layout back in the late 1970's and early 80's. The Ironstone part of the layout declared UDI and became "Mini Eastwell", a purely industrial layout with the main part featuring the Crusher plant and loading hopper based on the Railway Modeller article. This was later expanded to include exchange sidings and the connecting line between that and the crusher. It was last exhibited at York in 2001 before going into retirement, although the majority of the layout is still in existence in store. Here are some photos giving a flavor of the layout.

An overall view of the Crusher and hopper area showing how closely it follows the Railway Modeler plans.

post-7146-0-03899100-1453601603_thumb.jpg

 

Another view of the Crusher house and loco shed.

post-7146-0-24011400-1453601615_thumb.jpg

 

Looking towards the Crusher showing the high level sidings for unloading the ore cars coming from the quarrys.

post-7146-0-87132900-1453601631_thumb.jpg

 

The Hopper. This actually worked and loaded wagons with a set amount of "crushed iron ore" via a rotating drum system. Fiendishly clever and prone to jamming.

post-7146-0-99221800-1453601639_thumb.jpg

 

 

The layout could be exhibited in three different variants. A straight version, an "L" shaped version and a "U" shaped version. The following plans show the layout in its later extended version and give some idea of the variations

Layout plan with exchange sidings.

post-7146-0-20446700-1453644271_thumb.jpg

 

The "Eastwell variations" in set up.

post-7146-0-34064300-1453644279_thumb.jpg

 

In the long straight version, as seen in the photo below, the layout was 50 ft in length. In the "L" shape the two sides where around 25ft long each.

The straight 50' EIC. The Crusher plant is in the far distance.

post-7146-0-12223600-1453601660_thumb.jpg

 

Another view. This shows the extent of the original "Mini Eastwell" layout.

post-7146-0-24652000-1453601650_thumb.jpg

 

 

The final version was a "U" shape where the layout bent around on itself so the Crusher and works area was behind the exchange sidings. This was my favourite version as it tended to form the end of an island and visitors would think it was two different layouts before realizing, with surprise, that it was all one.

The following shots show the "U" shaped layout, although in this instance only two of the three sides could properly be viewed by the public.

post-7146-0-80730400-1453644310_thumb.jpg

 

post-7146-0-98454900-1453644317_thumb.jpg

 

It was good fun to operate as it worked like the real thing. Empties came in and loaded went out, with the inevitable complaints from the Crushed/Hopper operator when he ran out of wagons to load.

 

Paul J.

 

Edited to add additional photos and plans.

Edited by Swindon 123
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