Finescale Railway Modelling Review. Issue 1, Autumn 2014

[beast66606]

Rather than a refund, I'd prefer it if my outstanding funds were donated to cancer research.

 

Me too. (I don't normally post "me too" comments but I think this needs emphasising)

[Arthur]

For those who do wish to pursue missing copies or subscriptions, there is the option to 'contact the editor' in the link I posted above. They're a small team with a lot on their plate, so don't expect a rapid resolution.

 

I'm with Neil, the loss of my sub seems pretty irrelevant in the context of Bob Barlows death.

[Donw]

It is a shame to see it close. I would have been willing to do a guest editor spot to help out. (I do know how much work that requires) but perhaps without Bob driving inspiration it would not have succeeded.

Don

[Kenton]

Let's all think that by pure chance, luck or good fortune go the rest of us. I just think it is a little petty in worrying about a small financial loss of a subscription when you pause and consider all that family and friends are going through. I know, easy for me to say. But I still go back to Bob's post last December when "it's just a case of bad flu" and just contemplate for a moment on our own health prospects and mortality. Especially those of us who are already much older or not in the best of health. A little respect?

[Arthur]

 

I believe that to continue would have required a purchaser for the Greystar business as it stood, and an 'administrator/manager', probably the new owner, to run the business aside from the editorial role.

 

I presume, in essence, things will return to something like they were it was just Roy and the NGIRMR.

 

 

 

Well said Kenton.

[2mmMark]

The runaway success of Finescale Railway Modelling Review demonstrated a market for a publication of this nature. Right from issue 1, it forged a distinct identity separate from MRJ and the mainstream model railway press. I suspect a lot of that was down to Bob's vision for the publication coupled with Tim's joint editorship and Roy's design skills. I know Bob had in mind a fairly eclectic range of subjects for future issues.

 

I'm sure the decision to close the magazine wasn't taken lightly and bearing in mind how much of the vision that I think came from Bob, I feel it's correct. Perhaps something equivalent may arise in future.

 

Mark

[2ManySpams]

A very sad loss to the modelling community, both the man and the magazine.

 

My deepest sympathies to the family.

[Not Jeremy]

A tragedy indeed. Bob is, and will be, much missed. The sad unfolding of events and hideous pace of the whole situation has certainly made me think more about my own mortality, "carpe diem" and all that.

 

But thinking about the magazine, I agree with Mark. Notwithstanding Bob's talent and enthusiasm and Roy's skill, it seems to me that the "Review experience" has demonstrated pretty convincingly that there is room in the UK hobby for a new magazine at the "MRJ end" of the market. 

 

As a retailer of both MRJ and "Finescale Review" I can report that sales of the new magazine were not at the expense of MRJ.

 

All we need now is a bright entrepreneurial young enthusiast with deep pockets who is good at writing and fancies a challenge...

 

None of the above is intended as any criticism of the"mainstream" magazines by the way.

 

I hope to get a fair bit more done before I fall off the perch...

 

RIP Bob

 

Simon

[Donw]

The vision and the writing are probably the easiest bits managing the business and ensuring it pays its way is vital. My experience was with a society journal where the financial side was rather easier although it did mean I had to cover a broader audience than I might have wished.

Don

[2mmMark]

Absolutely right Don. Bob was in a rare position with huge skills as editor and writer coupled with the ability to manage a successful business.

 

From what I've experienced as a subscriber to both "reviews", the subscription and distribution side was well organised.

 

There have been promising publications in the past with great content that have foundered on the commercial side.

 

If anyone were to pick up the mantle, Bob leaves big shoes to fill.

 

Mark

[TheQ]

Sadly Bob will me badly missed.

 

From the point of view of reclaiming the fees most of us will have paid via credit card directly or indirectly and you can claim from them.

I'm not sure how they can continue with the NG mag without refunding as the company would be liable.

 

But I would prefer if in someway FMR could continue.

[2mmMark]

Sadly Bob will me badly missed.

 

From the point of view of reclaiming the fees most of us will have paid via credit card directly or indirectly and you can claim from them.

I'm not sure how they can continue with the NG mag without refunding as the company would be liable.

 

But I would prefer if in someway FMR could continue.

 

MY own approach is simply to wait and see what transpires.  Greystar was not a large amorphous corporation, I believe it was basically Bob running the operation, with printing & distibution subcontracted. There will be someone working to wrap all this up and as that might possibly be Bob's friends and family, I for one don't want to add to their burden and grief by setting the likes of Paypal and credit card providers on their backs. As the web site says, a great deal is having to be done.

 

Elsewhere, Roy Link has said that NGIRM will continue. I believe that will include honouring existing subscriptions. NGIRM's lifeblood is a loyal subscriber base.

 

Mark

[Isambard Kingdom Brunel]

Just to say that, my subscription which, I paid through PayPal at the end of April was refunded to my PayPal account earlier this week. Although the payment for issues 1-3 was not.

I will wait to see what happens, but, in the light of things it seems a small sum compared to what has happened.

[TheQ]

MY own approach is simply to wait and see what transpires.  Greystar was not a large amorphous corporation, I believe it was basically Bob running the operation, with printing & distibution subcontracted. There will be someone working to wrap all this up and as that might possibly be Bob's friends and family, I for one don't want to add to their burden and grief by setting the likes of Paypal and credit card providers on their backs. As the web site says, a great deal is having to be done.

 

Elsewhere, Roy Link has said that NGIRM will continue. I believe that will include honouring existing subscriptions. NGIRM's lifeblood is a loyal subscriber base.

 

Mark

I have no intention to chase anyone for repayment under these circumstances, I was just pointing out this as a recourse for those who do

[Welly]

Sorry, I think I gave the wrong impression in my previous post on this thread.

 

I accept the tragic circumstances and I was prepared to wait several months before the next issue. 

 

I would accept the next 2 issues of NGIRM in lieu of issues 4 and 5 of FRM even though I am not interested in NG modelling as such.

[griffgriff]

Sorry, I think I gave the wrong impression in my previous post on this thread.

 

I accept the tragic circumstances and I was prepared to wait several months before the next issue. 

 

I would accept the next 2 issues of NGIRM in lieu of issues 4 and 5 of FRM even though I am not interested in NG modelling as such.

Sorry but just to let you know you're still give that impression.

[Kenton]

 

I'm not sure how they can continue with the NG mag without refunding as the company would be liable.

 

This is entirely dependent on how the business was set up. If correctly set up as having Limited Liability, anyone taking over part of the business from the administrators is only liable for that separated (sold off) part of the business. Even then it is a matter of goodwill rather than debts outstanding. Otherwise the business is only liable to the extent of the shareholding. Liquidation of a business can be a very time consuming and difficult process, with the administrators trying to recover as much cash from breakup and sale of assets then using this to pay off creditors. Top of the list is the taxman (who can be exceptionally slow) followed by banks, businesses and individuals, finally the shareholders/owners.

 

I still cannot believe that we are discussing such small individual sums of money!

 

Let the administrators sort it all out. If ever you get a refund cheque in the future just count yourself as a really lucky, but miserable old s0d. Then use it to buy a pint and celebrate by dancing on someone's grave.

[djparkins]

So what happens to those subscribers of FMR who paid for a year's worth in advance then?Just

 

Just let it go!  Then take a deep breath - and be grateful that you are still alive to do some modelling or even reading about modelling.

[kandc_au]

To put in my two penneth worth.

I / we are not flash with money and on a pension, but have to say I am flabbergasted with all this talk about "what about my money"

The fact is the Principal has died.... it will take time for things to be sorted and if they are done within 6 months you should count yourself lucky.

The reality is, it is NOT like he planned to die.

It will all get sorted, but NOT today or tomorrow.

 

Khris

[clarkea1]

 

This is entirely dependent on how the business was set up. If correctly set up as having Limited Liability, anyone taking over part of the business from the administrators is only liable for that separated (sold off) part of the business. Even then it is a matter of goodwill rather than debts outstanding. Otherwise the business is only liable to the extent of the shareholding. Liquidation of a business can be a very time consuming and difficult process, with the administrators trying to recover as much cash from breakup and sale of assets then using this to pay off creditors. Top of the list is the taxman (who can be exceptionally slow) followed by banks, businesses and individuals, finally the shareholders/owners.

I still cannot believe that we are discussing such small individual sums of money!

Let the administrators sort it all out. If ever you get a refund cheque in the future just count yourself as a really lucky, but miserable old s0d. Then use it to buy a pint and celebrate by dancing on someone's grave.

Here, here. I will be best satisfied if the remaining monies from my subscription are donated to a cancer fund in Bob's memory. If anything is refunded, I will make the donation myself. Bob's family and close friends are going through enough without being chased for what is, in the grand scheme of things, petty cash.

 

Alastair

 

(As an aside I am still out of pocket having subscribed to Rice's RailModel Digest shortly before that went belly up too! Another one down to experience)

[Welly]

Let the administrators sort it all out. If ever you get a refund cheque in the future just count yourself as a really lucky, but miserable old s0d. Then use it to buy a pint and celebrate by dancing on someone's grave.

I have made contact through Greystar's website and explicitly asked that my outstanding subscription fee be donated to a cancer charity.

[Adams442T]

I have done likewise.  A small enough donation in the light of the enjoyment I have had from Bob's many modelling masterpieces over the years.

[Igor]

I have great respect for Kenton's comments normally.

 

However this was a genuine query. However sad/upsetting, there seems to be some over-sentimentality creeping in to these responses, which is not unreasonable from those who actually knew this gentleman. This is a common event that all of us will have to face, sooner or later but business has to go on.. How would people feel if it was a much larger sum? Or someone not so closely connected to the hobby? Not every has a gold-plated index-linked pension or can afford to write-off even 'small' sums of money.

 

Before going all 'Lady Di', remember to check out these charities. Some of them are more like big profit-driven businesses and we've all been subject to unsolicited phone calls and chuggers. I would suggest doing a good deed or volunteering rather than giving cash which normally goes to help pay top dollar for a chief exec. Cancer Uk for instance has 189 staff paid more than £60,000 with the boss getting £230,000.

See: third sector.co.uk

[Kenton]

 

However this was a genuine query. However sad/upsetting, there seems to be some over-sentimentality creeping in to these responses

Heck! First time I have been called sentimental!

 

I know that for some the sum is not trivial, but presumably the decision had already been made that the subscription was affordable. Therefore the loss of all or more likely part (remainder) of the subscription is unlikely to cause hardship. We should also reflect on the possible legal position. Commitment to buy a subscription of a magazine might not be seen as separate payments for individual issues. It might be interpreted as an entitlement to receive the next (n) issues. An investment in the process, there may well be no financial return on part use as the "investment" is potentially "spent" prior to the publication of the issue (production, distribution costs etc) Hence subscribers come further down the list of creditors.

 

Also a warning about requesting the administrator do distribute to charity. I believe they are not in the legal position to do this even if you request it. As an administrator they are very limited in the decisions that they may take. You are, in so doing, creating more work for them, and if they are professionally appointed that means more cost charged against any assets. (administrator charges come higher up the list) Of course if you do receive a refund you are at liberty to donate it as you please or to take out a subscription in another model railway mag.

[2mmMark]

Oh dear, in posting what I did, I hadn't intended the discussion to take this turn. I apologise if anyone thought I was making adverse comments about them.

 

I have had an email from Roy Link which explains the position regarding Narrow Gauge & Industrial Railway Modelling Review:

 

"Essentially, I’ve taken the title ‘Narrow Gauge & Industrial Railway Modelling REVIEW’ only, back in house. I have never had any financial connection with Greystar Publications - and was a ‘contractor’ in effect - while Bob was publisher.

 

Those wishing for refunds etc., with regard to FSRMR should send a request for a refund or whatever, in writing, to the Greystar address in the magazines. Though they will have to be patient, as it is his family that have to deal with all this once Bob’s affairs are through probate. I understand that all the unprocessed orders received by post are being returned.

 

The situation is quite different for NG&IMR REVIEW subscribers and I am honouring (at my own expense) all current subscriptions. Even so, I don’t have all the necessary information yet, but am compiling a list of those who have not received issue 102, for instance."

 

Maybe it's time to draw this discussion to a close?

 

Mark