Croydon North Street - NSE 3rd Rail 1980s/90s

[Pete 75C]

Edited for layout name change to Croydon North Street. Ignore any references to "Manor Road" in the earlier posts...

 

 

Welcome to Croydon North Street.

This little slice of Network SouthEast is totally fictitious and frankly that's the way I like it! Having made one failed attempt at modelling an actual location in an actual time period, I became frustrated with every compromise that had to be made. Here nothing ever existed so of course everything's exactly right! That's my excuse...
This is also my first attempt at DCC. I remember reading in the modelling press years ago that digital would be so simple, needing only two wires to the track. That appealed to me but I was sceptical and stuck with DC for years. I was right to be sceptical... this is a very simple BLT but a look under the boards reveals the amount of wiring I thought only existed in an old telephone exchange! To most of you, I'm sure it's not too bad but layout electrics and soldering have always been my nemesis. I really am totally amazed that everything seems to work!
I started building the boards a month ago but wanted to get the track down as well as I was able and to make sure everything worked as it should. The good news is that it works just fine. I've used Code 75 Peco throughout with electrofrog turnouts. I used to be happy with Code 100 insulfrog but I'm led to believe that insulfrog would have been a mistake with DCC. As mentioned, I'm not too comfortable with electrics, so I've cheated and used a Tam Valley Hex Frog Juicer under each of the two boards. These take care of frog polarity with absolutely no effort or headscrathing on my part. I'd read on RMWeb that people have had issues with changing polarity using microswitches attached directly to Peco point motors. The frog juicers aren't cheap but they've made my life a little easier.
Control is courtesy of a NCE PowerCab and there are, of course, multiple droppers feeding the track. The eagle-eyed amongst you will notice that I've fitted the PowerCab face plate the wrong way up on the layout fascia! Inserting the PowerCab lead into the face plate's left hand socket, as instructed in the user manual, achieved absolutely nothing. Cue much panic with me thinking I'd blown the decoder on the Heljan Crompton... Now I either just need to turn the face plate the right way up or remember to plug the handheld into the right hand socket! Duh.
As a newcomer to DCC, I don't want to get involved with accessory decoders so there are 8 point motors powered using conventional 16v AC through a couple of very simple mimic panels on the fascias. All seems to work well.
Each board is around 6' x 14" (I don't do metric). Traditional 9mm ply tops with 12mm (apparently I do do metric) ply sides and ends. Bracing underneath is softwood, so nothing groundbreaking there. There's around 3" clearance under the boards which is ample for point motors and wiring etc. The boards are aligned using brass dowels and joined with coach bolts and wingnuts. The main scenic board is designed to sit on trestles and the part scenic/part fiddle yard right hand board "piggy-backs" off of this with just one set of removable legs and adjustable feet. Track across the baseboard join has been soldered to copperclad. First time I've ever done this but although not particularly neat, it works well. I usually just glue the track at baseboard joins and hope for the best but having snagged a rail on a previous layout and ripped out around a metre of lovingly ballasted track, I wanted to avoid that happening again. Plus, it's a good opportunity to practise my soldering and I certainly need lots of practise...

If you're not bored yet, I'll leave you with some pictures of the layout and post again soon to let you know how the layout will be operated and give some background on my choice of location. I'll see if I can knock up a simple track plan to explain what's going on. Yes, there will be third rail and EPBs and such. There are also a couple of unexpected twists planned but like I said at the beginning, Manor Road only really exists in my head and that's not somewhere you'd want to go on holiday... Pete.

 

Edited April 6, 2015 by Pete 75C

[roundhouse]

Looking good.

 

Despite what others might think about Frog Juicers I like them a lot and all new DCC layouts will have them from now on.

 

One thing that does pose a problem is that if a traditional switch / solenoid mounted switch etc get knocked then its easy to get a replacement but if a circuit board gets damaged they arent normally available straight away (unless you are at a show where a DCC trader has them), so I am planning on making up perspex cover plates screws over them, spaced with plastic tube over the screws. I have done any yet and after many shows they havent been knocked but its bound to happen one day.

 

Look forward to seeing the progress.

 

Ian

Edited September 26, 2014 by roundhouse

[SRman]

Looking very promising, Pete.

For what it's worth, I deliberately mount my Power Cab sockets the 'wrong' way up so I can see the LED rather than having it hidden half the time by the trailing cables. The manual does offer this as an alternative idea.

[Mike Storey]

Looking good Pete and I shall follow with interest. What point motors have you installed - they look very neat?

[Pete 75C]

Ian - good idea with the perspex covers. When I had both boards upside down to work on the wiring, I remember thinking one knock and it could spell game over for one of the juicers. I've read some barbed comments on RMWeb from those that say juicers are a "lazy" solution to frog polarity. I'm fine with that - I can be very lazy!

Jeff - I routed out the hole for the NCE face plate and fitted it *before* even looking at the user manual. I just thought the LED should be at the top! I think it will stay that way. I also replaced the supplied "flat" lead with a curly one from DCC  Supplies. The flat lead was a little longer than I needed and I kept tripping over it!

Mike - the point motors are just common or garden Peco PL-10s. The ones mounted above the baseboard are fitted to an adapter plate and control a pair of Y points and a 3 way point accessing the storage roads - they won't be seen once the backscene's fitted. I don't particularly like the "snap" you get with Peco motors but I had some lying around and they've been reliable enough in the past.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Pete 75C

[roundhouse]

Ian - good idea with the perspex covers. When I had both boards upside down to work on the wiring, I remember thinking one knock and it could spell game over for one of the juicers. i've read some barbed comments on RMWeb from those that say juicers are a "lazy" solution to frog polarity. I'm fine with that - I can be very lazy!

I had initially wired up all the frog polarity to switches on Santa Barbara / Banbury but altered them as the Frog Juicers proved more reliable than the other methods.

Edited September 26, 2014 by roundhouse

[Pete 75C]

As promised, a little background...

 

 

There is a single island platform on the left hand scenic board. The main platform track continues past the platform ramp and crosses the high street very much in keeping with the current arrangement at Sheringham in Norfolk where Network Rail meets the preserved North Norfolk Railway. This crossing sees only half a dozen movements a year bringing preserved engines and the occasional railtour. Living in Sheringham, I'm familiar with this arrangement and thought I'd pinch the idea... this means the layout could easily be extended at a later date and would allow for rolling stock not normally seen on the line. The entrance to the station couldn't be simpler, as seen below.

 

 

The big difference is, completely unlike the arrangement at Sheringham, Manor Road is an island platform with the top track shown on the plan having been extended recently to cater for a 4VEP in peak hours. The through platform has only a limited capacity and will usually see a 2EPB or Cl.456 depending on era.

The lower track on the scenic board is planned as a "cripple" road for freight stock to add some variety.

Again, drawing on the arrangements at Sheringham/Cromer, Manor Road is imagined to be at one end of a rail "triangle". This is best explained using an old rail map showing the triangle that used to exist between Sheringham and Cromer. The part of the triangle in red was lifted years ago, meaning that everything headed for Sheringham now has to reverse at Cromer. Again, pure fantasy, but I'm imagining Manor Road to be at the Cromer "end" of the triangle - this will allow for some unusual movements and a run round loop with limited capacity is shown on the plan. An arriving Crompton or ED will be able to run round its short train of ballast hoppers, for example, before continuing on its journey.

 

 

On the right hand board, most of the space is taken by the 3 hidden storage sidings, but there is just enough room to include a carriage cleaning platform and hardstanding for a couple of locos, very much like the arrangement at Norwood during my time on the railway. Basically, just an excuse to "park" some stock and make scenic use of the whole 12' layout length.

Now try to forget all the Norfolk references... this is very much 3rd rail territory. The infrastructure will be based on what I remember from the 80s and 90s but I'm flexible with the time period... Hornby's 2BIL and 2HAL are sure to make the occasional appearance.

The next job is to weather the track and lay some cable troughing before cutting out a template for the platform. I forgot to mention that the scenic break between boards will be a road overbridge. Being South London, a nice red Daimler Fleetline double decker will be needed. You can't have a bridge without a bus on it, can you? More soon.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Pete 75C

[Pete 75C]

OK. Quick update. Station platform now in place and cable troughing/cosmetic point motors installed. I need to extend one side of the island platform towards the scenic break road bridge and I'm after something that looks like an obvious later extension, similar to Northfleet (seen below). As soon as I've figured out how to achieve this, I'll add some pictures. I have a cunning plan involving items from the bits box but it has to look right or plan B will be needed! Pete.

 

© David Glasspool Collection

[dasatcopthorne]

Welcome to Manor Road. In reality Manor Road is the slightly depressing northern end of the high street in Wallington, South London, the town that was my world from birth to early 20s. That makes this little slice of Network SouthEast totally fictitious and frankly that's the way I like it! Having made one failed attempt at modelling an actual location in an actual time period, I became frustrated with every compromise that had to be made. Here nothing ever existed so of course everything's exactly right! That's my excuse...

Manor Road is my first attempt at DCC. I remember reading in the modelling press years ago that digital would be so simple, needing only two wires to the track. That appealed to me but I was sceptical and stuck with DC for years. I was right to be sceptical... this is a very simple BLT but a look under the boards reveals the amount of wiring I thought only existed in an old telephone exchange! To most of you, I'm sure it's not too bad but layout electrics and soldering have always been my nemesis. I really am totally amazed that everything seems to work!

I started building the boards a month ago but wanted to get the track down as well as I was able and to make sure everything worked as it should. The good news is that it works just fine. I've used Code 75 Peco throughout with electrofrog turnouts. I used to be happy with Code 100 insulfrog but I'm led to believe that insulfrog would have been a mistake with DCC. As mentioned, I'm not too comfortable with electrics, so I've cheated and used a Tam Valley Hex Frog Juicer under each of the two boards. These take care of frog polarity with absolutely no effort or headscrathing on my part. I'd read on RMWeb that people have had issues with changing polarity using microswitches attached directly to Peco point motors. The frog juicers aren't cheap but they've made my life a little easier.

Control is courtesy of a NCE PowerCab and there are, of course, multiple droppers feeding the track. The eagle-eyed amongst you will notice that I've fitted the PowerCab face plate the wrong way up on the layout fascia! Inserting the PowerCab lead into the face plate's left hand socket, as instructed in the user manual, achieved absolutely nothing. Cue much panic with me thinking I'd blown the decoder on the Heljan Crompton... Now I either just need to turn the face plate the right way up or remember to plug the handheld into the right hand socket! Duh.

As a newcomer to DCC, I don't want to get involved with accessory decoders so there are 8 point motors powered using conventional 16v AC through a couple of very simple mimic panels on the fascias. All seems to work well.

Each board is around 6' x 14" (I don't do metric). Traditional 9mm ply tops with 12mm (apparently I do do metric) ply sides and ends. Bracing underneath is softwood, so nothing groundbreaking there. There's around 3" clearance under the boards which is ample for point motors and wiring etc. The boards are aligned using brass dowels and joined with coach bolts and wingnuts. The main scenic board is designed to sit on trestles and the part scenic/part fiddle yard right hand board "piggy-backs" off of this with just one set of removable legs and adjustable feet. Track across the baseboard join has been soldered to copperclad. First time I've ever done this but although not particularly neat, it works well. I usually just glue the track at baseboard joins and hope for the best but having snagged a rail on a previous layout and ripped out around a metre of lovingly ballasted track, I wanted to avoid that happening again. Plus, it's a good opportunity to practise my soldering and I certainly need lots of practise...

If you're not bored yet, I'll leave you with some pictures of the layout and post again soon to let you know how the layout will be operated and give some background on my choice of location. I'll see if I can knock up a simple track plan to explain what's going on. Yes, there will be third rail and EPBs and such. There are also a couple of unexpected twists planned but like I said at the beginning, Manor Road only really exists in my head and that's not somewhere you'd want to go on holiday... Pete.

 

manorroad_001.jpg

manorroad_002.jpg

manorroad_003.jpg

manorroad_004.jpg

manorroad_005.jpg

 

 

 

 

Oi! Our Club was in Manor Road.

 

 

Dave

[Pete 75C]

Sorry Dave! I'd forgotten about the Carshalton & Sutton MRC when they were on Manor Road... In all honesty, about all I can remember of Manor Road is the gun shop and the Duke's Head. I've just pinched the name "Manor Road" because I like it. I had thought about "Demesne Road" where my parents bought their first house together in the 50s but was worried no-one would be able to pronounce it!

[Pete 75C]

After a bit of head scratching and one failed attempt, the one-sided extension to the island platform has been added. All that it needs is some modern waist high fencing and a "Do not alight here" sign facing the camera!

The main island platform features a weather-worn tarmac surface and although it's not too clear from the pictures (I really must get a better camera), you can just make out some repair patches to the platform surface.

The track has been weathered and I guess ballasting is next, now that I know all the electrics are working ok. I don't have the patience to brush paint the rail sides plus I think it always looks "patchy". I prefer to weather the track using spray cans of Humbrol 29 Dark Earth. I must have got through loads of this over time!

You can see from the strange masking tape marks on the cork that concrete sleepers have been masked before spraying otherwise everything would turn a uniform shade of brown and the concrete sleepers would be almost indistinguishable from the wooden ones! Once ballasted, everything will get another very light weathering and this will help to tone down the concrete sleepers a little. I use a brown fine-grade Woodland Scenics ballast for wooden-sleepered track and a fine-grade grey for concrete. This helps to give the impression that there's been some recent track relaying.

Going back to fencing, can anyone recommend a modern-style platform fencing, either plastic or etched? I doubt iron railings would be a feature of a modern platform extension...

 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Pete 75C

[roundhouse]

Looking good.

 

I tend to hand paint all the rails then once dry you can see the bits missed and re do them.

 

Do like the patched platforms. Nicely done.

[kipford]

Pete

Nice to see another 3rd rail layout join the club. Looking promising. I am also a LED on top person, it the most logical. I also mark mine master and slave for the uninitiated.

[Pete 75C]

Pete

Nice to see another 3rd rail layout join the club. Looking promising. I am also a LED on top person, it the most logical. I also mark mine master and slave for the uninitiated.

 

Yeah, I think I'll leave the face plate as it is, you're right, it really does seem more logical. I shouldn't need to mark the sockets as I can't imagine this layout straying too far from home and confusing any third parties!

I'm toying with the idea of using Ratio 437 modern fencing for the platform extension. It's modelled on a modern palisade wooden type and I have this urge to paint it signal red for a Network SouthEast look. I don't particularly want to tie the model in too tightly to a specific era as I have a plain blue 2EPB and I'm sure a blue 2BIL will put in an occasional appearance. I could just play it safe and paint it white similar to this:

 

© Copyright Evelyn Simak and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence

[Steve Purves]

Just seen this, another fine looking layout in the making... Looks like you have been at the Lego again with the extended platform!

 

 

I have always ballasted first then weathered, so will be looking forward to seeing how it works the other way around... do you weather again lightly once ballasting is done?

 

Steve

[Pete 75C]

Looks like you have been at the Lego again with the extended platform!

 

I always did get model railways confused with toy trains. Seriously, the little angle bricks seem to mimic concrete uprights quite well especially with a couple of coats of Plastikote "tan" suede touch to give some texture! As for weathering, yes, the track will get another blast of Humbrol when ballasting's finished and also I'll use weathering powders in the four foot together with some strategically placed weeds. The Chipmans weedkilling train isn't due back 'til next year...

[kipford]

I am with Pete, paint and weather track first, then ballast, tidy the whole lot up.

[7APT7]

Hi Pete

 

great thread and excellent photos bud.... will follow with interest, and making a good start on the latout.

 

Jamie

[Pete 75C]

Thanks Jamie. I haven't been idle for the last week or so. I've literally just finished adding the 3rd rail and weathering the track and buffer stops. Too late in the day for any half-decent pics, but I'll upload some in the morning. Pete.

[Pete 75C]

Tried to get some half-decent pics now that the 3rd rail is in place on the left hand scenic board and 90% of the ballasting is complete. The layout's being built on the top floor of the house which is still being renovated. Although the room's plastered, there is still no electric and that means everything has to run off an extension lead - not ideal. The natural light in the room isn't too bad but I'm still disappointed by the picture quality. Maybe time for a new camera.

You can just make out the disused post of the original semaphore starter at the end of platform 1 before the platform was extended and the area resignalled. This isn't fixed in place as I'll no doubt damage it whilst working on the scenery! Likewise, there's little point adding platform lamps etc just yet. Colour light signals will be from CR Signals but I'll need to specially order the signal for platform 2 which will need a red/white, white/white position light built onto the post.

I sometimes think I go a little over-the-top with track weathering but "universal brown grime" is what I remember from my railway career, unless of course, a section of track had just been relaid. There are some new rail sections in the 4 foot of the cripple siding and I may dot some concrete sleepers around. Looks like Manor Road is due for a visit from the Permanent Way Dept in the not too distant future!

The 3rd rail is standard Peco Code 60 and just as on Waddon Marsh, each length was chemically blackened before being fixed in place. From my own memory, the 3rd rail is never rusty or shiny silver-coloured, it adopts a black, almost greasy look and the chemical blackening replicates this quite well.

Sitting at the buffer stops on platform 1 is a most unlikely visitor. It must surely be lost. I do remember Class 37s from my time at Norwood in the 80s but I doubt this example in British Steel light blue ever made it south of the Thames. I'm a sucker for unusual liveries and that's always been my downfall.

I need to make a start on the road overbridge scenic break next but I'm not in a huge rush. My better half would probably prefer that I did some decorating... More soon.

 

 

 

 

[Pete 75C]

Another quick update. Having got the household chores out of the way in double-quick time, I took the chance to paint the backscene for the left-hand board and scenic break. Still have the backscene for the right-hand board to do but now at least I can get on with building the bridge and getting to grips with the scenery on the main board. There won't be too much greenery but what there will be should help to add another dimension.

 

 

[d winpenny]

Layouts really coming along nicely keep it up

 

David

Edited October 12, 2014 by d winpenny

[croydon junction]

come on! more pictures, more progress, less house chores! The house chores can wait! apart from that, the layouts looking really good.

[Pete 75C]

The house chores can wait!

 

I told the wife what you said and won't repeat the response...! Couldn't agree more though...

 

I'm using Wills bridge abutment kits and their excellent VariGirder kits to make up the road bridge(s) at the moment. The girders will get a base coat of red primer and then I usually strategically "drizzle" some fine table salt into the moulded seams. This is followed by the top coat of paint. When all is dry, the salt is washed off under a running tap and it's probably the most realistic "rust" effect I know of.

I got hold of some Bachmann Scenecraft 1 tonne aggregate bags and have been trimming and painting some concrete sleepers. These will all get scattered alongside the front siding and give the impression that some major track work is about to start. My local model shop is selling their last few of these Bachmann Plasser Cranes for a good price and I'm thinking one might look good running up and down with a single spoil wagon. Amazingly for something so small with little room for a motor, never mind a decoder, it's DCC ready with an 8 pin socket. The wheels are tiny, and I've heard the mechanism is a little on the noisy side so I wonder how well it will run?

 

Edited October 14, 2014 by Pete 75C

[Jock67B]

Just catching up Pete, so excuse the rash of ratings! Developing well and if anyone deserves somewhere to escape to from time to time - it's you! Keep at it. Is 'Mile Cross Road' still on hold or have you given it up?

Kind regards,

Jock.