Garethp8873 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I think I must have some good luck on my side when it comes to finding GWR Wartime Black photos ... this time of GWR 2251 Collett 2259 with ROD tender in 1953. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GWR-CLASS-2251-0-6-0-LOCO-NO-2259-BANBURY-19-11-53/362454916166?hash=item5463ff1c46:g:7ZcAAOSwq4VaSkRd:rk:1:pf:0 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 19, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2018 I think I must have some good luck on my side when it comes to finding GWR Wartime Black photos ... this time of GWR 2251 Collett 2259 with ROD tender in 1953. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GWR-CLASS-2251-0-6-0-LOCO-NO-2259-BANBURY-19-11-53/362454916166?hash=item5463ff1c46:g:7ZcAAOSwq4VaSkRd:rk:1:pf:0 That's a great one. Still "GWR" in 1953 and still wartime black too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 That's a great one. Still "GWR" in 1953 and still wartime black too. And I've got one Bachmann Collett with ROD on it's way to me. Was destined for 'GREAT WESTERN' but Wartime Black takes priority now!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2018 Mine is already black, and very grubby. John Dew has one with the seldom seen "BRITISH RAILWAYS" on the tender. Fox used to do the "wartime black" GWR logos, Last time i looked they were unavailable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted October 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2018 Mine is already black, and very grubby. John Dew has one with the seldom seen "BRITISH RAILWAYS" on the tender. Fox used to do the "wartime black" GWR logos, Last time i looked they were unavailable. It did have! A few months ago I had second thoughts and changed the decals to GWR..........serendipity now that we know it still had GWR on in 1953....... yes the number I chose two years ago was 2259! It was a Croes Newydd loco hence the choice I do like the idea of having one or two with “BRITISH RAILWAYS” its such a precise time stamp.....and validates the Hawksworth coaches. I put the logo on a BR modified hall and renumbered/renamed it to 6989 Wightwick Hall that was outshopped in March 1948 to Hereford .....not sure when the first sightings of the logo were but it seems reasonably feasible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 One question though, would've 2259 have had panelling over her cab windows during the war? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2018 During yes, 1946/47 maybe not, they certainly seemed to remove the plates pretty quickly post war (although it naturally took longer for those locos that were built without windows to have them cut into the sides) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Hi All, An interesting very late survival in wartime GWR Black was condensing Pannier No. 9703. It wore this until scrapping! It is why that loco was chosen when a friend and I modelled one of this class. Running rights from WWII until the end of steam! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2018 It did have! A few months ago I had second thoughts and changed the decals to GWR..........serendipity now that we know it still had GWR on in 1953....... yes the number I chose two years ago was 2259! It was a Croes Newydd loco hence the choice I do like the idea of having one or two with “BRITISH RAILWAYS” its such a precise time stamp.....and validates the Hawksworth coaches. I put the logo on a BR modified hall and renumbered/renamed it to 6989 Wightwick Hall that was outshopped in March 1948 to Hereford .....not sure when the first sightings of the logo were but it seems reasonably feasible. There were two types of 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' lettering for locos, the first applied from 1/1/48 with GW type Egyptian Serif lettering as used on unlined locomotives in the 1920s and early 30s prior to the shirtbutton livery. This was the WR's response to the initial instruction from Marylebone that they were to carry on as normal until further instruction. Transfers for this can be found on the HMRS GWR loco and coach insignia sheet, no.7. Further instruction came in May 1948, and stipulated the new standard liveries with the lettering in BR standard Gill Sans, on HMRS BR loco sheet no.14. The first crest, the unicycling lion, was available from the end of March 1949, and became the norm until 1958. So 6989 will have been delivered to Hereford in March 1948 with GW type Egyptian Serif, and probably in lined green livery as the lined black mixed traffic livery had not yet been adopted and lined green was what Swindon was painting it's new Halls in post 1945. This type of BRITISH RAILWAYS lettering is a favourite of mine, but I am struggling to find an example suitable for my location and period, Tondu 1948-58. I have locos running in GW 1942-5 austerity black and 1945-7 unlined green as well as BR Gill Sans lettering and unicycling lions, with both red and black backed name and number plates. I cannot find a lined black example, which I'd like, either, but the period allows a good bit of biodiversity in loco and stock liveries, with enthusiastic weathering emphasising the point that some vans and wagons have not seen a paint brush since well before the war! Locos were shopped at least every 7 years in theory, that being the limit of an extended boiler certificate (5 years but you could apply for a 2 year extension subject to a certified inspector's examination with a hydraulic test), but some locos carried late GWR livery into the 60s despite this, and despite not having had any periods in storage (you could 'de-register' the boiler for a period if this was done). So I work on the principle that, if I know when a new loco entered traffic as you do with 6989, I am safe in letting it carry that livery for at least 7 years afterwards, so that 9649, delivered 1946 new to Tondu in what must have been unlined green G W R initials livery, can carry that livery until at least 1953, but I can't have her on the layout at the same time as 8448, delivered new to Tondu in 1955 (and scrapped 4 years later; what was the point?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted October 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2018 Thank you for that helpful and informative post. I had a moment of panic that I had used the wrong (for Granby) " British Railways " transfer on 6989.uick trip to the train room revealed that all was well.......I do agree with you that the Egyptian Serif font is rather attractive. Like you I have been progressively weathering my locos and attempting to get a suitable mix of black and plain green. I suspect, particularly now I know about a likely 7 year span, that I dont have enough in black. Thanks again for the post John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) omis Locos were shopped at least every 7 years in theory, that being the limit of an extended boiler certificate (5 years but you could apply for a 2 year extension subject to a certified inspector's examination with a hydraulic test), but some locos carried late GWR livery into the 60s despite this, and despite not having had any periods in storage (you could 'de-register' the boiler for a period if this was done). So I work on the principle that, if I know when a new loco entered traffic as you do with 6989, I am safe in letting it carry that livery for at least 7 years afterwards, so that 9649, delivered 1946 new to Tondu in what must have been unlined green G W R initials livery, can carry that livery until at least 1953, but I can't have her on the layout at the same time as 8448, delivered new to Tondu in 1955 (and scrapped 4 years later; what was the point?). From what I remember (I wasn't very old at the time), the original idea was to electrify the main lines and to run steam for the natural life of the locomotives, which (saying thirty years for this) would have meant the eighties or even nineties. Politics intervened with the modernisation plan of 1955 and later Beeching (brought in at great expense as 'hatchet man' *) to bring in a mass cull in the sixties, following the mad rush to build diesels. In the case of the 94xx, I understand there were outstanding contracts and we still believed in British industry and the balance of payments (import/export) at the time. * I wouldn't like to suggest there was any connection to this and a Minister of Transport with an interest in road building.... Sorry for 'politics; but the end of steam is linked inescapably. An overhaul didn't necessarily mean a repaint (how else could 9710 survive with a 'shirt button' until at least the late fifties* - to scrapping I believe?). Rule 1 applies in any case! * Personal observation in my spotting days. She wasoverall black, but whether this was wartime black or grime I couldn't say. Her working environment wasn't exactly the cleanest. Edited October 30, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2018 (how else could 9710 survive with a 'shirt button' until at least the late fifties* - to scrapping I believe?). Rule 1 applies in any case! * Personal observation in my spotting days. She wasoverall black, but whether this was wartime black or grime I couldn't say. Her working environment wasn't exactly the cleanest. I think all of the 97XX ended up being very "black" regardless of the logo given their role. I am a big fan of this tiny un-travelled "niche" class of engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I think all of the 97XX ended up being very "black" regardless of the logo given their role. I am a big fan of this tiny un-travelled "niche" class of engine. I didn't 'cop' all of them. IIRC one already had been scrapped and I missed one (I need to check with my 'abc' which is in a box - somewhere.... They were all black/ dirty dark grey with a variety of markings from 'shirt button' through 'G W R' to 'ferret'. They are also one of my favourites. I have acquired a K's body, but she needs stripping apart and rebuilding. One day.... In the meantime she runs on a Dublo R1 chassis (wrong wheelbase etc.) and will be numbered and lettered as 9710. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 My Bachmann GWR Green Collett with ROD tender is off on her travels to be repainted into GWR Wartime Black livery. Looking forward to seeing how she get's on and the end result... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 On the subject of the GWR Wartime Black Dean Goods, following me purchasing the book William Dean today I've been able to find several running numbers of Dean Goods that received the War Black livery. For those that are interested in the running numbers, they are at the link below: http://www.rmweb.co....y/#entry3401879 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 GWR Wartime Black Preview... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 The new Bachmann post war Hall is here, more photos will be posted on ANTB. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Presenting the first GWR Wartime Black liveried engine that will grace my layout... GWR Collett 2259 with ROD tender. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2019 Presenting the first GWR Wartime Black liveried engine that will grace my layout... GWR Collett 2259 with ROD tender. I like the cabside window plates. Bet they were fiddly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) I like the cabside window plates. Bet they were fiddly. The person who did 2259 for me was the same person who did me GWR 7208 in the GWR Grotesque Sans Serif lettering last year which you can find at the link below. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72189-Hornby-42xx-not-a-bashing-thread/page-12&do=findComment&comment=3186783 Personally I am very pleased with 2259 and the end result. Looking at either a Grange, Hall/Modfied Hall or Dean Goods as the next Wartime Black loco to be done. As to the cabside window plates they were .005 brass sheet cut and filed into shape and the rivet heads produced on a rivet press. Edited January 28, 2019 by Garethp8873 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Keeping up with the GWR War Black livery... GWR 4936 Kinlet Hall undergoing a transformation into GWR 4942 Maindy Hall in GWR Wartime Black livery 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Maindy Hall, repainted from lined Great Western green to wartime black, flack screens added from brass sheet embossed with fixings, etched plates from the Modelmaster range. Built Swindon:1929 Lot no 254 29/6/29 Repainted wartime black 18/6/43 Withdrawn 28/12/63, Converted at Didcot into 2999 Lady of Legend 2019 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Question for one and all... has anyone yet regressed the current Bachmann Modified Hall from BR livery into GWR Condition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted July 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) I have. Lined Green with G**W crest I believe is correct for post war Halls of this batch. Pre-war Halls would be black or unlined green by 1946. My Maindy Hall will be unlined green when it is finished. Edited July 20, 2019 by M.I.B 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 hour ago, M.I.B said: I have. Lined Green with G**W crest I believe is correct for post war Halls of this batch. Pre-war Halls would be black or unlined green by 1946. My Maindy Hall will be unlined green when it is finished. Can you do photos when possible please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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