exet1095 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I saw and handled the pre-production model this morning. Very neatly detailed, even underneath, with a bar over the hinged end too. I expect these will be popular. Also asked about future plans; they have a five-year programme mapped out and plan an announcement every quarter, if there is nothing you want now, then write in and ask. They are very receptive to positive ideas.. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I hate to be captain miserable (worse words could describe me) but if the Kernow Model Centre is right, both Hornby and Oxford will both be producing number 30584 in BR lined black with a early crest. Its not that brilliant that two companies are working on the same model, but if one or the other was doing a 'early crest' model couldn't not one or the other choose a different number? I wonder if the reason why they both chose 30582 for the early crest version because it was the only one of the three not to get the later version? I take it the number in your second paragraph should read 30584? With two makers each producing two models, and only three locos to model in BR form, there was a high probability of this happening unless one of them chose not to do 30584 or did it with BRITISH RAILWAYS rather than the crest. I think it likely that all the possible permutations will emerge eventually! As I understand it 30582 only received the late emblem in late 1959 or early 1960, so didn't carry it for all that long. The Oxford pair (30583, late and 30584, early) suit my requirements best and I placed orders via my local model shop this afternoon. John Edited January 21, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ady77014 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Whoops. My Bad. Edited it. I think you right about 30582, I seen images of her and 30583 with the late crest. I am hoping to at some point own models of all three, but all with an early crest (I am mister picky, or mister fussy, or mister a##e), so I can only go for which ever companies' model of 30584 for now and wait patiently for further announcements... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Something unusual/unique/quirky? No... Something that, in typical Oxford fashon, can be churned out in multiple liveries and sell by the train load to collectors? Yes... Something where the the existing models leave room for improvement and if done right will also sell in quantity to the more descerning modeller? Absolutely... The wagon makes a lot of sense as a basic item to establish the brand in the market, and to stay in production as a 'bread and butter' product that will continually sell... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 If you are going to set out to build an empire, it's as well to ensure when you are building your impressive castles and palaces that there's enough farms out on the plains to support your soldiers and princesses... An accurate, sensible priced model common over a range of eras (and liveries) and found practically nationwide that would sell to the serious modelling fraternity (even if it's not the obscure protototype only found in Scotland between 1913 and 1951 that three or four of them really really really want) that will also sell to the "pretty colours" collector market seems a very sensible move to me- and not dissimilar to DJM's Hunslet Austerity in a way (which I also thought was a very sensible choice). Something they can sell lots of, get the name out there, and provide finance to support some of the more obscure prototypes that will no doubt come later. To say that the market is all going this way is frankly ridiculous- there's more variety of high quality rolling stock available RTR than ever before, a trend that doesn't show any sign of reversing (and why would it?). As for stepping on kit maker's toes, anything not useful/ popular enough to have a reasonable kit available in 4mm/ft is very unlikely to have a sound business case as a RTR model is it- so that is inevitable for as long as the RTR market continues to grow. You could even say they've been nice to the kit market by choosing something already available RTR 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Whoops. My Bad. Edited it. I think you right about 30582, I seen images of her and 30583 with the late crest. I am hoping to at some point own models of all three, but all with an early crest (I am mister picky, or mister fussy, or mister a##e), so I can only go for which ever companies' model of 30584 for now and wait patiently for further announcements... There's a very well known shot of 30582/3 both with late emblem, hauling a Bulleid 5-set on Trill curve, taken by the late S.C. Nash in September 1960. Reproduced in various books including 'From Salisbury To Exeter - The Branch Lines', by Derek Phillips (OPC, 2000) Frighteningly, I would contemplate having 30582 in both forms. My only excuse is that I was born and grew up (insofar as I ever will) in Axminster, so these locos were very much a part of my formative years. John Edited January 20, 2015 by Dunsignalling 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) As I confirmed on my blog here the Hornby R3335 will be 488 in LSWR livery as preserved on the Bluebell Railway with Adams boiler. As already stated above the Oxford Rail announcement today as being "number 488 in Southern livery" is a little spurious... Thank you Graham, as always, for the useful content in your blog. I wonder if the reason why they both chose 30584 for the early crest version because it was the only one of the three not to get the later version? They could have announced all the Hornby colours plus do others. That would be war! As far as I can see, excepting one digit on one model of the three, they pretty much did just that. According to Graham's blog Hornby will do: R3333 No. 30584 in BR early emblem livery – Adams boiler R3334 No. 30582 in BR late emblem livery – Drummond boiler R3335 No. 488 in LSWR livery as preserved on the Bluebell Railway with Adams boiler Oxford Rail will do: OR76AR002 BR Early 30584 OR76AR001 BR Late 30583 OR76AR003 LSWR 488 With only one (presumed, livery) difference, that pretty much is open war. (We'll have to see about boiler details.) Had they done an SR version many more people could benefit immediately. Despite how much I like to see pre-grouping liveries, I made the decision to pass on the earlier Hornby LSWR offerings (T9, M7) under 'having to draw the line somewhere' and I will pass on an LSWR offering from both suppliers, looking forward to an SR version one day. I wonder who will be first to do so? I will certainly purchase some of the PO wagons. Edited January 20, 2015 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Could somebody explain the LSWR liveries on the Bluebell engine? Currently it seems to be a quite bright pale green but I remember It wearing a more of a light olive colour any years ago. I thought the correct Urie green was a pale olive. If that's correct what period does this bright pale green of the bluebell engine represent? The hard decision I can see is the choice between buying the Hornby LSWR version or wait to see if 'Oxford' do a LSWR historical livery? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Currently it seems to be a quite bright pale green but I remember It wearing a more of a light olive colour any years ago. Here's a nice side by side comparative study of colors in the LSWR liveries from an auction site. Not shown is the pale sage that I presume Hornby plans to replicate on the Adams Radial here or here. I'm guessing in the end it might look something like this which sits a bit in between. Edited January 20, 2015 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks for the kind comments about my blog Michael, as you have seen it has already been updated to show the fact that Oxford Rail have since their initial announcement this morning amended No. 488 to now read " LSWR livery" so we can now possibly assume this to be as she is currently preserved. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks for the kind comments about my blog Michael, as you have seen it has already been updated to show the fact that Oxford Rail have since their initial announcement this morning amended No. 488 to now read " LSWR livery" so we can now possibly assume this to be as she is currently preserved. Graham, If you ever have writer's block for a topic, a potted history of LSWR liveries would be informative - certainly for me, and it appears, others here. My apologies if you've already done so - I did do a search but didn't find one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 The HMRS have just published a revised and updated version of their LSWR livery register which would be a good starting point for anyone wanting the full low down although annoyingly it does not appear on their website yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Don't be surprised, a growing proportion of folk wanting everything handed to them on a plate and gift wrapped these days. And that's in all things not just model trains. ,-p I suspect that I'll end up making a pre-group goods train from kits for my SECR C Class to pull however, my earlier post was more about my surprise that the R-T-R providers haven't made the very common railway company owned wagons. To my way of thinking it is a no brainer, but clearly they don't think so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Responding to Anglian in post 817 there are over two pages about LSWR locomotive liveries in HMRS Livery Register no.3 LSWR & Southern. I attach a picture of two Hornby M7s. 245 is in LSWR Drummond Green from 1895-Oct 1917, 252 is in LSWR Urie Green from Oct 1917 to Dec 1922. The same principle would apply to the two shades of green worn by 488 on the Bluebell line. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Responding to Anglian in post 817 there are over two pages about LSWR locomotive liveries in HMRS Livery Register no.3 LSWR & Southern. I attach a picture of two Hornby M7s. 245 is in LSWR Drummond Green from 1895-Oct 1917, 252 is in LSWR Urie Green from Oct 1917 to Dec 1922. The same principle would apply to the two shades of green worn by 488 on the Bluebell line. Hi Robin, Thanks for the image – they are the liveries I'm familiar with and I remember the Bluebell Radial running in the later pale olive, the Urie livery. In my opinion it looked at its best in that livery. That must have been back in the 1980's. What I don't understand is where the pale bright green, that the Bluebell engine currently wears, fits into the historical sequence. It's a quite different green to either the Drummond or the Urie liveries and looks like neither to me being closer to a light apple green. Surely it can't be that the Bluebell have painted it a non-hisotircal colour? Edited January 21, 2015 by Anglian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) suspect that I'll end up making a pre-group goods train from kits for my SECR C Class to pull however, my earlier post was more about my surprise that the R-T-R providers haven't made the very common railway company owned wagons. To my way of thinking it is a no brainer, but clearly they don't think so! There's a reasonable selection of vans from Bachmann - GWR Mink and Mogo (albeit a bit on the wide side), three SR varieties and several LNER, plus one LMS type that looks OK except for the roof. The Brake van situation is much better than it used to be though there is a definite lack of Big-Four open merchandise wagons. Pre-group wagons are a little more tricky as manufacturers would be bound to plump for types that survived long enough to receive BR livery which narrows the field somewhat. Models suitable for roughly 1952-62 sell in quantities almost equal to all other periods combined. Thus, anything that disappeared before about 1955 would be a quite risky investment. However, I have never seriously believed that any able-bodied person is genuinely incapable of assembling a simple plastic wagon kit. Most open wagons are barely harder than clipping a few bits of Setrack together! They just can't be bothered IMHO. John Edited January 21, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mclong Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2015 The Adams radial at the Bluebell is not in either of the liveries on the Hornby M7s. It is in Adams pea green livery 1887-95, but has some later modifications. The cab roof , coal rails on the bunker , taller water filler and lack of balance beams between the driving wheels were modifications by Drummond , also a mechanical lubricator between the frames possibly fitted by the Bluebell. So preserved locos usually are not perfect representations of a past period . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hi Robin, Thanks for the image – they are the liveries I'm familiar with and I remember the Bluebell Radial running in the later pale olive, the Urie livery. In my opinion it looked at its best in that livery. That must have been back in the 1980's. What I don't understand is where the pale bright green, that the Bluebell engine currently wears, fits into the historical sequence. It's a quite different green to either the Drummond or the Urie liveries and looks like neither to me being closer to a light apple green. Surely it can't be that the Bluebell have painted it a non-hisotircal colour? Why not? They seem quite happy to run 'Blackmore Vale' in SR livery with a BR cab. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The Adams radial at the Bluebell is not in either of the liveries on the Hornby M7s. It is in Adams pea green livery 1887-95, but has some later modifications. The cab roof , coal rails on the bunker , taller water filler and lack of balance beams between the driving wheels were modifications by Drummond , also a mechanical lubricator between the frames possibly fitted by the Bluebell. So preserved locos usually are not perfect representations of a past period . Excellent, thank you. I'll probably be waiting for a later LSWR release in a Urie livery which will allow me the time to assess Oxfordrail v's Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Not sure if this has been reported elsewhere, But Hattons and Rails announce their price for the Adams radial at £88.00 and the PO wagons at £9.00 ( Hattons) .............. & £8.95 (Rails) I think Oxfordrail will do very well! These seem to be quite acceptable prices Which may put the cat among the pigeons so to speak. And even upset the Applecart! Edited January 21, 2015 by Stevelewis 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ... if there is nothing you want now, then write in and ask... The latest Met Office severe weather warning is for a torrent of seemingly unstoppable froth in the vicinity of Swansea... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Should Oxford jump on the DJM bandwagon and produce some of their RCH minerals in NCB internal use to join the NCB Austerities being produced? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Why not? They seem quite happy to run 'Blackmore Vale' in SR livery with a BR cab. John Apologies – my post was ambiguous. When I made the post nobody had yet explained to me that the LSWR pea green livery had been used in the late C19th – early C20th. I'd made the incorrect assumption that the Bluebell had painted it an entirely fictitious green mid-way between Drummond's and Urie's greens. Clearly the locomotive carried the pea green at some point in it's working life and thus it is a true 'historical livery', even though the exact specification and detailing of the restored locomotive 488, is at odds with the colour scheme chosen. As you explained, that discrepancy is a common practise at the Bluebell and I assume elsewhere. Edited January 21, 2015 by Anglian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hattons have announced that Oxfordrail 76 AR001 in BR late black and OR76AR002 in BR early black will arrive between July and September 2015 and OR76AR003 488 in Southern green will be ready between October and December. It looks like 488 will be in one of LSWR's shades of green rather than in Southern green. Based on Oxford Diecast's past performance I am not expecting any delays or supply issues so there is no need to pre-order one. As soon as it arrives you will either be able to buy one on line from a firm like Hattons or call at your local model shop just like the old days. If they sell out Oxford usually just makes another run. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOgaugeJaf Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It looks like oxford are well in control of their manufacturing and not reliant on someone making it for them and the cost probably reflects that. Good to see some healthy competition for Hornby and Bachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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