Oxfordrail - Adams Radial

[stephennicholson]

Does anyone know where Oxford sourced the sound for their DCC sound versions?  I have been puzzling over the Air Pump sound which randomly plays and have wondered if they used the IOW Adams O2?  I dont think thats authentic for the Radial, so trying to work out how to disable it. Any ideas?

[Edwardian]

Just seen some very interesting conversions of these locos on Hattons Twitter page here.

Radial tenders.png

(apologies if these have been posted on here before)

Alex

 

Very nice indeed; real modelling and a lovely bit of work, though I'd have used the Hornby model and had daylight under the boiler.  The Radial given tender form has a rather Beyer Peacock look to it; see M&GN and Australia's Victorian Railway 4-4-0s.

 

The Radial should provide a basis for two other LSW classes:

 

1) 380 Class, or 'Steamroller': http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115499-using-rtr-models-to-represent-the-lswr/?p=2453405

 

2) 46 Class, or, 'Ironclad' tank: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115499-using-rtr-models-to-represent-the-lswr/?p=2454023

[SDJR7F88]

Hi all, bit of a question that has been puzzling me, and I can't seem to find an answer for. 

I've read this engines did a bit of work during WW1, and was wondering what livery they would of carried during this period (1914 -1918).

I'm guessing LSWR Green of some sort, but heard 488 was sold to the Ministry of Munitions in 1917? So could she of been painted Black or even an ROD Livery? 

Any help would be great

[JSpencer]

Hi all, bit of a question that has been puzzling me, and I can't seem to find an answer for. 

I've read this engines did a bit of work during WW1, and was wondering what livery they would of carried during this period (1914 -1918).

I'm guessing LSWR Green of some sort, but heard 488 was sold to the Ministry of Munitions in 1917? So could she of been painted Black or even an ROD Livery? 

Any help would be great

488 was never used by the ministry and remained as is in LSWR (though somewhat faded) until sold to the EKR in the early 20s. Why Stephens brought her is a mystery to this day as the loco was far from useful on that line. Mind you he picked some old locos in his time.

[eldomtom2]

My Oxford Radial has a slightly bent front bufferbeam. Have others had this problem, or is this somehow the fault of my clumsy fingers?

[Fireline]

488 was never used by the ministry and remained as is in LSWR (though somewhat faded) until sold to the EKR in the early 20s. Why Stephens brought her is a mystery to this day as the loco was far from useful on that line. Mind you he picked some old locos in his time.

 

The price was right.

[Tony Burgess]

Does anyone know where Oxford sourced the sound for their DCC sound versions?  I have been puzzling over the Air Pump sound which randomly plays and have wondered if they used the IOW Adams O2?  I dont think thats authentic for the Radial, so trying to work out how to disable it. Any ideas?

I'd like to learn more about this sound project, having just purchased one.  On the ESU Loksound Lokprogrammer the sound descriptions all come up in German, so I'm wondering if ESU selected the sounds from their fairly extensive library of European sound files.

 

But my immediate need is to sort out why the volume set as maximum on CV63 is far too low - that's why I'm exploring this forum now to see if I can get a clue from others who had the same experience!

[Tony Burgess]

488 was never used by the ministry and remained as is in LSWR (though somewhat faded) until sold to the EKR in the early 20s. Why Stephens brought her is a mystery to this day as the loco was far from useful on that line. Mind you he picked some old locos in his time.

 

Using both the BR Database and Wikipedia, and we know that Wiki is not always reliable, I came up with the following -

1914 Became 0488

1917 sold to Ministry of Munitions

 went to EKR in WW1?

1946 re-purchased by Southern Rlwy and numbered 3488

so someone out there believes 488 was used by a military Ministry.  I would think if this was true, she would have most likely been painted in a drab colour of some kind.

[JSpencer]

Using both the BR Database and Wikipedia, and we know that Wiki is not always reliable, I came up with the following -

1914 Became 0488

1917 sold to Ministry of Munitions

 went to EKR in WW1?

1946 re-purchased by Southern Rlwy and numbered 3488

so someone out there believes 488 was used by a military Ministry.  I would think if this was true, she would have most likely been painted in a drab colour of some kind.

 

The ministry of munitions never really used her, She was never repainted by them.  The EKR pîcked her up post WWI (even post grouping).

 

She was repaired and painted dark green by the LSWR then sold to the ministry of munitions in 1917. Assigned number 27 but no evidence exists she ever carried it.Assigned to the Royal Naval salvage college at Ridham near Sittingbourne. In 1919 moved to the general stores depot at Belvedere near Woolwich then put up for sale in 1920. She remained on sale for a very long time as there was no shortage of engines being disposed of by most railway companies at this time.

The Disposal & Liquidation commitee sold it to Colonel Stephens in 1923 for £375, she arrived on the EKR in April 1923.

 

Reading this, she was doubtless used briefly at Ridham dock. This was an uncompleted dock (completed in 1919) but was used to allow ships to pick up munitions. I can only assume a branch from the SECR Sheppy line had been built quite early on as the dock is just over 3 miles away.

 

Edit 3: Just found this online:

 

Quote

Five National Salvage Depots were planned for late 1917, Blyth, Immingham, Manchester, Renfrew and Ridham. All came under the direct control of the Ministry of Munitions.

Ridham Dock was already in use for the export of munitions, and land was leased for the salvage depot from 10 May 1917 to 19 November 1918.

The salvage depots were responsible for the storing, sorting and repairing of all manner of military equipment, apart from weapons and vehicles, recovered damaged from the battlefield.

Most of the workforce were women. There is a splendid photo, with a short audio, @ http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02b39h8

The exact location of the depot buildings, Factory 185 of the Ministry of Munitions, within Ridham Docks is unknown.

 

At least two locomotives worked at the depot.

 

Kerr Stuart Skylark (No. 2) 0-4-2t, ex H Lovatt & Co, ex Salford Docks. http://www.shropshiremines.org.uk/snailbeach/sbsdr/locos.htm

 

Ex London & South Western Railway 415 class, No. 488. 4-4-2t. Now on static display at the Bluebell Railway.

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/adams_tank.html

 

http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=18493.0

 

End Quote

 

0488  had a charmed life considering that just before WWI, she was considered one of the 10 worst condition radials and doubtless would have been scrapped had it not been for WWI and her sudden repair to full working order for the ministry.

She then got selected for EKR, doubtless because she was cheap as she was not really well suited. And had even greater luck when the southern needed an extra loco for the Lyme Regis line being brought in 1946. Had she remained on the EKR until 1948, she would have been scrapped as BR considered none of their stock fit for further use.

And when it came to preservation, she was one of 3 radials to choose from.

Edited November 12, 2018 by JSpencer

[Yankee]

Haven’t heard anyone report this before. A club member purchased this sound fitted radial new just before Xmas. Reported to me that it run very slow and then stopped completely. I found there was no continuity between the wheels back to the chip socket. The wiring from the main driving wheels and rear wheels pick ups are routed via plunger contacts on to the bridging PCB. There was no continuity from either sets of wheels on to the PCB board. Unscrewed the board and found the PCB tracking underneath was completely burnt away. There was considerable signs of overheating in the vicinity.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

15 hours ago, Yankee said:

...Reported to me that it run very slow and then stopped completely. I found there was no continuity between the wheels back to the chip socket. The wiring from the main driving wheels and rear wheels pick ups are routed via plunger contacts on to the bridging PCB. There was no continuity from either sets of wheels on to the PCB board. Unscrewed the board and found the PCB tracking underneath was completely burnt away. There was considerable signs of overheating in the vicinity.

Between whatever the current draw may have been, contact resistance, and the conductivity of the PCB tracks, is clearly enough what has led to the overheating. Top suspect, how thin the copper was on the PCB.

 

(A long time ago now, but I well recall a PWBA assembly put on the ATE, and briefly glowing before there was smoke. Whole batch of boards with almost see through copper tracks; UK industry going mad for 'electronic everything' at the time, and parts and components suppliers unable to keep up with demand. Such was the tight supply situation, that it was economic to have a couple of our best wireboard assemblers strip the components from the two hours of faulty production and build them onto good boards. Happy days...)

[sjp23480]

I did a quick search but couldn't see anything, does anyone have any problems with haulage power of the OxfordRail Adams radial?

 

I have been given two to look at, neither can manage even a slight incline on their own, let alone hauling a coach/wagon or two.  I have coma across some comments about their lack of capacity, particularly over uneven track but this seems a bit extreme and not a problem that afflicts the Hornby version.

 

Can anyone offer any counsel?

Thanks
Steve

[barrymx5]

I have 2 Oxford Radials and both are fine. Not powerful but neither were the prototypes which often ran with only 1 coach behind. 
I usually run the LSWR 488 with 2 LSWR 56ft  PC coaches. 

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

I did a quick search but couldn't see anything, does anyone have any problems with haulage power of the OxfordRail Adams radial?

 

I have been given two to look at, neither can manage even a slight incline on their own, let alone hauling a coach/wagon or two.  I have coma across some comments about their lack of capacity, particularly over uneven track but this seems a bit extreme and not a problem that afflicts the Hornby version.

 

Can anyone offer any counsel?

Thanks
Steve

 

Are these early examples? There was a problem reported on first releases that the front NEM coupler pocket had minimal clearance with the underside of the bufferbeam, so that it ran fine on level track but as soon as it encountered any sort of incline the NEM pocket on the bogie rose to lift the bufferbeam and hence the whole model, including the driving wheels, off the track, as it pivoted on the trailing axle. Worth looking into.......

[sjp23480]

@barrymx5 and @Neil Phillips- thank you for your replies. It doesn't appear to be the NEM coupling mount. 

 

I do suspect the front pony is part of the problem, so I have removed the spring and washer on the front pony and added some weight to try to keep the pony on the track. 

 

I hope this will allow more of the weight of the loco to bear on the drivers. Also looked to add some weight to the engine, but there is no space for any extra ballast. 

 

Seems like the engine is less liable to slipping on my test track but need to try it on the layout. 

 

Steve 

[barrymx5]

My first Radial ( one of the first)  did have a problem with the front pony truck derailing. Oxford sent me a new pony truck and spring and this cured the problem. 

[Nile]

If it's from the first batch you need to file the top of the front of the bogie down, see here:

 

[Edwardian]

On 28/03/2021 at 00:39, barrymx5 said:

I have 2 Oxford Radials and both are fine. Not powerful but neither were the prototypes which often ran with only 1 coach behind. 

 

I love these sweeping statements.

 

Like many locomotive classes, increasing train weights in the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth Centuries led to them eventually being superseded from the duties for which they were designed and cascaded, but only after many years of hard and successful work.  In the case of the Radials, some ended up on bucolic branch services, e.g. Lyme Regis, where, from c.1909, the SW ran a 2-coach bogie set.  

 

From 1884 to 1904, however, these locos were front line motive power on increasingly intensive London suburban traffic. One service noted (in an accident report) in 1888 comprised 13 4-wheel coaches.  Twenty years of hard front line suburban service is as much as was expected of any locomotive class of the period.

 

Generally any given locomotive class is less powerful than the generation that replaces it, but to dismiss a such a capable class as 'not powerful' (whether or not in justification of a 'not powerful' model of it) seems odd to me. 

 

So, I suppose the way to decide whether the Oxford Radial is, or is not, powerful compared with the perfectly capable prototype is to hook up 13 Hornby generic 4-wheelers behind it and see.

[barrymx5]

"So, I suppose the way to decide whether the Oxford Radial is, or is not, powerful compared with the perfectly capable prototype is to hook up 13 Hornby generic 4-wheelers behind it and see."
 

I look forward to seeing the results of your trial. In the meantime I leave it to others to decide whether my post was helpful or not. 

[Edwardian]

32 minutes ago, barrymx5 said:

"So, I suppose the way to decide whether the Oxford Radial is, or is not, powerful compared with the perfectly capable prototype is to hook up 13 Hornby generic 4-wheelers behind it and see."
 

I look forward to seeing the results of your trial. In the meantime I leave it to others to decide whether my post was helpful or not. 

 

Alas, you won't. My Radials are all Hornby, due to my preference for daylight under the boiler.

 

Though, as I'm having some 1870s Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon Works 4-wheel coaches printed, I suppose I could form a LSWR block set, which would give an Adams livered Radial something appropriate, and fairly long, to pull. 

 

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

ISTR reading that the Adams Radial survivors on the Lyme Regis branch had been altered in appearance from their original form; as it is, the only models that have been produced are of these three.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

ISTR reading that the Adams Radial survivors on the Lyme Regis branch had been altered in appearance from their original form; as it is, the only models that have been produced are of these three.

 

 

Nos. 0125, 521 and 0419 were modified 1913-1914 to give the bogies greater play for the sharp curves of the Lyme Regis branch.  Additionally, 0125 and 0419 had double slide bars fitted.  

 

0520 was similarly modified in 1926, and also had double slide bars fitted. 

 

By 1946, only 520 and 0125 (now 3520 and 3125) survived, but were joined by the former 488, returning from the EKR (and now 3488).

 

Under BR there were thus 3 survivors:

 

30582 (ex-3125)

30584 (ex-3488)

30584 (ex-3520)

 

It appears that the Oxford model of 488 lacks the bottom slide bar, quite correctly. This represents the bulk of the class before withdrawal.  The Oxford and Hornby models are of the preserved condition, however. Oxford's EKR No.5 and 3053 (the same locomotive as 488) accordingly have a single slide bar.

[JSpencer]

On 07/04/2021 at 12:39, barrymx5 said:

"So, I suppose the way to decide whether the Oxford Radial is, or is not, powerful compared with the perfectly capable prototype is to hook up 13 Hornby generic 4-wheelers behind it and see."
 

I look forward to seeing the results of your trial. In the meantime I leave it to others to decide whether my post was helpful or not. 

 

On 07/04/2021 at 13:15, Edwardian said:

 

Alas, you won't. My Radials are all Hornby, due to my preference for daylight under the boiler.

 

Though, as I'm having some 1870s Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon Works 4-wheel coaches printed, I suppose I could form a LSWR block set, which would give an Adams livered Radial something appropriate, and fairly long, to pull. 

 

 

 

Currently I only have 9 Hornby Generic 4 wheelers but both Oxford rails (1st run 30583 ex 488 - unmodified) and Hornby's (radials 30582 and 30584) hauled all nine round the twists and turns of my layout with ease.

(FWIW I do have Oxfords EKR 5 and Hornby's 488 LSWR but these are DCC models).

For completeness, I ran my other Atlantic tank, an ex LBSCR I3 from OO works too (this being a bigger stronger loco, obviously had no issues).