Hornby R8247 Accessory Decoder - compatible with NCE 'Powercab'?

[Jack374]

Hi,

 

A while ago I bought a couple of said Hornby accessory decoders, and used both very successfully with a Hornby 'select' walkabout controller. After a change of track plan (3 actually! ), the point decoders sat in the bottom of a box for about 3 years. Dad had written the previous address on it.

 

Last week, I installed one under my current layout with Hornby point motors.......and it doesn't work. I drilled through the other one, so I can't swap them if this one is faulty. I tried to reprogram it using my Powercab, but to no avail. Pic of set up....

 

I tried it again after, and despite still reading 'cannot read CV', when I cancelled this message (enter button), it fired one of the motors. Therefore it is properly connected, I just can't get it to function properly and can't reprogram it.

 

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

Jack.

[Phil S]

First: Have you tried operarting them with the set of 4 numbers either above or below your recollection of the numbers when you used them on the earlier layout (and perhaps a different make of controller - judging by your thread title?

Some 'Systems' start their 'User Numbering' from NMRA's 0 address (for L/R outputs '1-4') and others from '1' ... and the difference, when you then swap controller, s that they 'appear' to have moved address by 4 from that previously known.

This 'problem'/feature is avoided with those decoders which use a 'Learn' button - because they simply learn whatever number is being sent through the dcc track signal - which does not necessarilly have anything to do with that displayed 'to the user' on the handset: for historical reasons, some makes might label the modules 1,2,3,4,5,... each with outputs A,B,C,D instead.

The nmra standard does NOT specify how they are displayed to the user ... and different ideas have grown up in dfferent countrues and manufacturers. - note it is only 'avoided' by pressing the learn button on the new layout  ..... it is a bit like asking what number a newly acquired loco has ... it doesn;t matter .... just write a new (known) value.

 

The NEXT problem might be 'how do I successfully program' the (Hornby) decoder : READING Is NOT a requirement (although on some controllers- failure to read WILL stop the programming!.    A common partial-solution is to connect a motor (load) to the FIRST output when programming - this may solve the 'read-back' problem with some programmers.

The 2nd problem, with the Hornby Point-ONly Decoder, is that it has an inbuilt CDU - and if used 'cold' on a programming track, will still be trying to charge the CDU when the power is applied (ONLY) during programming..... their instructions recommend powering up 'normally' on the main track immediatley before using the progrmming track.

[StaffsOatcake]

I tried to get these to work on a layout I was helping to build.  I could never get the Hornby decoders to work with my NCE system either.  So I've only ever bought the Lenz LS150's  for two reasons.  I don't like accessory decoders that steal power from the track and the LS150's have six outputs.

[HLT 0109]

Jack,

 

I use Hornby accessory decoders successfully with my Power Cab and ProCab set up but the first batch were addressed using Hornby Elite.  When I wanted to programme new accessory decoders, I found it was not covered by the NCE manual; it tells you how to change the decoder's CVs once it has an address but not how to give it the address.  It is however straight forward (if I remember correctly) but I did mine on my programming track as I think all my decoders outputs would have ended up with the same four addresses had I done it on the main.  Whichever you choose I believe you have to press the Prog/Esc button repeatedly until "Programming Accessory Decoders" appears (option 7); when the address is requested, enter the number of the next decoder you want to number (ie if it is the first, press 1 and it will number the outputs 1 to 4; if it your second decoder, press 2 and it will number the outputs 5-8).  As far as I remember, that is all there is to it, but it is some time since I did it and I may have forgotten something.  I can't check it just now but will do so tomorrow.  I remember being surprised that it worked because it seemed an inconclusive operation, and it is impossible to read anything back.

 

Harold.

[Jack374]

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

I think I'll take it to my model club tonight and try it with their elite....if that fails then it's destined for the bin...like the other one.

Not looking good for Hornby!

 

Jack.

[Brian]

I may be totally wrong, but something in the back of my mind says.... The Hornby Select doesn't use conventional accessory decoder address numbers? I seem to recall reading somewhere it uses loco address allocated numbers but reconfigured to accessory numbers. Something in the range of 61 to 96? keeps coming to my mind.

If so, the PowerCab won't normally use this range of addresses!

Have you tried re addressing the decoder via the PowerCab, having initially connected it temporarily to the normal DCC powered rails for a couple of minutes to allow the capacitors inside to reach a fully charged state?

Stand to be corrected on all of the above, as its only a thought!

 

 

Edit to correct typo.

[Jack374]

Right....I've just tried it at my local club...and the point motor works on its own but the decoder produces nothing. A lost cause.

 

So I'll get a CDU and transformer and have switches. Can't justify the cost of a new one when it's easier to do it plain and simple.

 

[/annoyed mode]

Jack.

[traction]

I programmed the Hornby accessory decoders with my PowerCab.

It took a while to get my head round what it was doing but it does work and was repeatable, this is for the older R8216 but should work OK for the later R8247 although you can use any program mode you dont need to use register mode.

Also you shouldn't need to do it loads of times to charge up the capacitors as in the older R8216:-

 

Right connect a point motor to the first ouptut of the accessory decoder, this will show us the decoder is working.
Just for test purposes I connected the two output wires from the PowerCab power panel straight into the track input terminals on the decoder.

Now on the PowerCab press PROG/ESC button followed by the number 4 key(short cut to program track)
the screen will show
USE PROGRAM TRK
Press enter.
You should have on the display
1=STD 2=CV 3=REG press the number 3 button.

The screen will show
PROG TRK
REGISTER?
Type in the number of the register you want to look at or change.
We want to change register address 1 (This is the accessory address)

Screen will show:-

PROG TRK
REGISTER 1=

After a short while maybe 30secs it will then show can't read CV
Press enter
Screen will show

PROG TRK
REGISTER 1= ???

Type in the GROUP number you want to set this decoder to then press enter. See note below

I repeated this a few times just to make sure the internal capacitors had charged up.

Now press the PROG/ESC button to return to the main operating screen.
Press the SELECT ACCY button then enter a point address EG 1 to 4 followed by enter.
The on screen display will show 1=N(ON) 2=R(OFF)

By pressing 1 or 2 the point motor should fire across, if nothing happens repeat operating the point motor in the other direction just in case it's already in the correct position.
You can test further by connecting the point motor to each output and testing accessory addresses 1 through to 4.


NOTE

Where you enter the address, you have to remember it's in blocks of 4.
So if you put in address 1, it will automatically program outputs 1 to 4 with addresses 1 to 4 respectively.
Now if you want to add another decoder and have the next four ouput addresses as 5-8 you must use the group address of 2 in the step above in red.
Or if you want the next lot of addresses to be 9-12 you must use the group address 3

It's a bit of a misnomer really, your not actually programming the address but the group number:-

Group 1 gives output addresses 1-4
Group 2 gives output addresses 5-8
Group 3 gives output addresses 9-12
Group 4 gives output addresses 13-16
Group 5 gives output addresses 17-20

And so on etc.

I've been playing about with it most of this afternoon and it all works perfectly with the PowerCab.
You can use macros, if you want point addresses 1,2,3 and 4 to fire at once, when programming the macro actually use the correct address numbers 1 to 4.
Hope that makes sense.