RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted October 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2014 I do believe the Norwich to Liverpool Street service is the worst in the country (and yes I have tried lots) The amount of full closures of the line is ridiculous, and yet the service doesn't get better as a result of all this engineering work. Fell foul of it again tonight and not even an apology from the train staff. In fact, they just pretended our train was an Ipswich service, didn't even acknowledge it was supposed to go to Norwich. Just bunged us off the train at Ipswich and let the platform staff sort it out. It was only on the small print on the Liv. St. departure boards too - I wonder how many less aware people got left behind in London. As usual the seat reservations were not done. Got past the bus section to find a cramped and dirty diesel unit instead of a proper mainline train for the last leg into Norwich. Abellio, the latest rebrand for sh*#e service. Hey ho, thanks for the opportunity to rant and get it off my chest so I might get some sleep. Course the train crew kept a low profile so we never got to tell them what we thought. If you think you get a worse service lets hear from you (and you have my sympathy in advance!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The FGW mailine is a nightmare for a number of factors , on going electrification work, lots of over running or faults after signalling work and a TOC that still does not understand what customer service is about! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted October 12, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) True to an extent Mick, but if you are in charge of a service that should go to Norwich and is being terminated at Ipswich surely it's common courtesy to apologise for the inconvenience and explain to the 150+ affected people what the arrangements are, rather than just pretend you are in charge of an Ipswich service, and then hide. Xerces, is the FGW mainline fully closed with bus replacement services weekend after weekend? That's what we get, and there is no major investment and no sign of any benefit for the work. Edited October 12, 2014 by colin penfold Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spannerman Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Got to agree with Colin on this one. Norwich-London line has been consistently poor for years, the ongoing weekend maintenance/"improvements" and replacement buses always make for a unenjoyable experience. Nik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 After the farcical situation of overrunning engineering work at least three times recently, we were promised more cooperation between NR and Abellio to minimise impact to passengers. Work north of Ipswich this weekend has been advised for sometime and initially I assumed Colin was having an unnecessary pop at the operator but he says the service was for Norwich (announcements should state the terminating point) so did the engineering work start early? It's the lack of information I as a passenger find truly annoying, give me the option to go via Cambridge to Norwich at Liv.St. as early as possible. That said, the troops on the ground (excluding retirements etc.) are the same as wore uniforms for NXEA, one, Anglia and to a lesser extent Inter-City. I don't think the blame can be laid squarely at the door of Abellio, NR and other factors often impact on the service they try to run. The lack of information isn't a fault Abellio are alone in on this score. I do agree we are plagued alleged "upgrade work" with it seems no apparent observable benefits. The much trumpeted Norwich in Ninety is all well and good but is the frequency of bus replacement worth it to get it? C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 We booked first Advance tickets two weeks before travelling one Sunday from Norwich to London. On the day all the Mainline trains were retimed and only ran as far as Stowmarket with busses to Colchester. No announcements stating short notice engineering works etc. we ended up having to travel via Ely but we're not allowed on the Kings Cross services. Luckily we didn't mind as hadn't travelled via Thetford for a while and twigged quick enough that we got some of the few first class seats on the class 170. No complimentary drinks though !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've personally had no issues travelling from Norwich to London but then in all fairness, it's not a journey I do regularly. To back up what Colin has experienced, I've certainly heard that it can be an absolute nightmare. Having lived near Southend for some years, I did go from Leigh on Sea to Fenchurch St many many times and that was absolutely horrible, no exceptions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cnw6847 Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2014 the roads around these parts aren't much better either! coming to east Anglia is like time travelling back 50 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 ...coming to east Anglia is like time travelling back 50 years. That's one of the reasons I like it here! But agreed, getting around is not easy without a car. Had to drive to Fakenham on Saturday and spent most of the journey trying to get by either a tractor or a caravan. Beats living in the smoke though, been there, didn't like it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Just over 50 years ago, Roundhouse could've changed at Thetford for Bury and on to Cambridge OR Colchester for The Street. He might even have got there on the same day! C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Colin I think original post is like a closed question where you have predetermined the answer! Many of us rant about our rail company however maybe consider detailing the specific areas to be commented on in order direct comparisons can be made? For the record we do have bus substititions on FGW however I do not have a problem with this when it is for work planned for electrification that has been well communicated. So we need to compare apples with apples otherwise we will all just ranting! I think my favourite Barbie huggers might even like this post! LOL XF Edited October 13, 2014 by Xerces Fobe2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted October 13, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 thanks for all the supportive messages chaps. I hadn't heard any public comment from NR or the operators that Norwich in 90 was actually policy. As far as I know it's still just lobbying by the local authorities and other interested groups. Given the clapped out locos and stock we have, you might be forgiven for thinking it's a campaign to run a main line like it might have looked in 1990. I know it's really a timing thing, but given that Phileas Fogg did round the world in 80 days we could think big and go for Norwich in a month Anyhow, I was grateful for the chance to offload and go to bed without unresolved chuntering going round my head. I'm sorry if it sounds like a closed question - I do believe that we have the worst mainline, but it I did try to open it up for a discussion, both for people to disagree or to suggest they have a worse one. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 From personal experience I would say the management at GA are weak and customer service is very poor - couple that to a line that needs upgrading work and older stock which fails frequently and there you have it ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 I did go from Leigh on Sea to Fenchurch St many many times and that was absolutely horrible, no exceptions. They unsportingly waited until you left before improving the service. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 you might be forgiven for thinking it's a campaign to run a main line like it might have looked in 1990 The stock might have been newer in 1990, but that stock wouldn't have been there! Bit of a history of hand-me-downs this line! To add to Beast's comments, from memory it's also supposed to have been only a short term temporary 'caretaker' franchise, though that was then extended - not usually helpful in getting big issues challenged. The ROSCO had a nice plan a while back that I think should have improved the train quality and reliability considerably (new loco's and driving trailers, and fully rebuilt Mk3s) - but kicked into the long grass due to the franchise changes, it might yet see new EMUs, which would at least be considerably more reliable... In terms of the closures, it must be a NR's worst nightmare to manage, intensely used in daylight, but still busy with (nationally important) freight on weekday nights, mostly double track (albeit lots of bi-di signalling) so much less chance of keeping the route partially open when work happens unlike the GWML, and no really simple diversions either...maybe they'll do better with those if we get more fill-in electrification? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 My son regularly goes to Norwich for footie and his impression of Abellio Anglia is not good (apart from the special discount they offer for Norwich supporters travelling from London). I have used the route once this year and, notwithstanding the family problem which led to us not using it a second time was more than happy to not have to use it. On-train service was as near non-existent as made no difference, timing of announcements was atrocious when considering passengers needing to get ready to alight and get their luggage to a door, and cleanliness was poor. The branch train to Harwich was a shambles of an example of failure to regularly clean the stock over an extended period. Overall the impression was of a concern which had little care for its passengers and rolling stock. One thing which folk do need to understand is the extent of infrastructure work clearly taking place on the GE mainline with, in some respects, almost as much electrification work going on as there is on the GWML - but in the GE case it is renewals and that can be a lot more complex than starting from scratch. But that is no excuse for poor possession and timetable planning and is certainly not an excuse for possession over-runs. To be quite honest based on what I saw on the GE and what some others on here have said I wouldn't give Abellio a contract or franchise to run anything on rails and I'm amazed they have got Scotrail as their on-train staff aren't a patch on just about any other operator you care to mention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) The more I read, the more I appreciate the service on my commute. About 17min train journey; 5 trains an hour; three TOCs on four routes (EMT London-Sheffield, EMT Norwich-Liverpool, XC NE-SW and Northern Nottingham-Leeds); no nasty overhead wires to fall down; diversionary route available (takes about 15 minutes longer); variety of stock to keep the railway enthusiast interested (156;158;220;221;222 and HST). I even have two backup bus services, one express. I think having the option of so many services is what really keeps it reliable as a customer. If one service goes completely wrong, it doesn't effect the others that much. I might have another opinion when MML electrification starts... Edited October 13, 2014 by Talltim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I used to commute from Kelvedon into Liverpool Street in BR days, and it was pretty awful then. Sounds even worse now. The population growth in the region means the Ely to Norwich line needs to be wired, and rather than HS2, a new line should be built from Thetford through Bury St Edmunds, Haverhill and Dunmow to ease the pressure on the existing East Anglian main lines. And the whole franchising system shouldbe scrapped, as it demonstrably doesn't deliver the service it was meant to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 the roads around these parts aren't much better either! coming to east Anglia is like time travelling back 50 years. Despite the trend for wealthy types to buy up the less expensive housing for holiday homes (anything under £250K in Woodbridge, Aldeburgh, etc. being described as such by estate agents). East Anglia remains an "ignored" part of the world for the politicians and so has suffered from poor infrastructure spending for years. That's a shame, because once you have got past south/central Essex, it is a delightful part of the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cnw6847 Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2014 That's one of the reasons I like it here! But agreed, getting around is not easy without a car. Had to drive to Fakenham on Saturday and spent most of the journey trying to get by either a tractor or a caravan. Beats living in the smoke though, been there, didn't like it... I like living here too, its just a bit frustrating at times! It made me laugh when the 90's & MK3's arrived as it was made out that the area was getting new trains. They didn't say on the local news that they were 20+ year old trains from elsewhere. Its annoying the Beccles to Norwich line closed as it would have been useful for nights out etc. I dislike like going on the bus so its a car job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Having been to an Interview with National Express before Abellio took over I would say the issue is one of culture issues more then a specific company company issue. A lay back attitude with staff that did not appear to be interested in the railway - it was just a job to them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 Despite the trend for wealthy types to buy up the less expensive housing for holiday homes (anything under £250K in Woodbridge, Aldeburgh, etc. being described as such by estate agents). East Anglia remains an "ignored" part of the world for the politicians and so has suffered from poor infrastructure spending for years. That's a shame, because once you have got past south/central Essex, it is a delightful part of the world. Well I suppose if you had the kind of infrastructure we have in the south of Essex you might have to move somewhere else to avoid living in a place with whatever infrastructure brings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 To be quite honest based on what I saw on the GE and what some others on here have said I wouldn't give Abellio a contract or franchise to run anything on rails and I'm amazed they have got Scotrail as their on-train staff aren't a patch on just about any other operator you care to mention. They're lucky only to have Abellio, we've got them in partnership with Serco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You'd think with the choice of two routes, GEML & WAML they could at least get one right !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47164 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Mmmmm I use the GE everyday.. The biggest issue seems to be capacity trying to run too many trains and that blocks the will to speed up services and to have a 100 mph run to shenfield and beyond, the class 321's are dire, and probably the biggest gripe is passenger etiquette ie people who always sits in the aisle seat and huff and puff when you want to sit in the empty seat by the window... And those who insist on using their phones whilst getting off trains and walking down the stairs at chelmsford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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