jamessolomon Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I recently purchased a Mk2 Buffet car to put in my mk3 intercity rake as one for that is expensive then i decided to create a rake of mk2s as a charter train on the layout. My question is since im interested in getting not the compartment ones but the center isle ones the 2+2 seating like airplanes some had tables. My locos are a class 31, 35 and a class 27 and was wondering when did the center isle mk2s enter service did they replace the compartmented ones in service or did they run together in some rakes. The other question is what is a standard rake operating order Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 There are a lot of questions in that paragraph, James! Are you sure the buffet is actually a Mk2 and not a MkI? The only Mk2 buffets were later conversions, none were built as buffet cars originally. All Standard Class Mk2s were opens (centre aisle). (Someone is bound to point out that a few BFKs were later declassified). Only Compartment Mk2s were First Class. These ran with other Mk2s interchangeably. Class 35 Hymeks were vacuum braked only, and many Mk2s were air braked. To find a typical rake formation you would be well advised to Google a few images and then ask for help on here to identify the vehicles pictured. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 So are Hymeks not generally used with Mk2 coaching stock because of the incompatibility with the braking system being different. Will have to post a photo of the buffet car but the box i got it in mentioned Mk2 on the label but it might be someone using an old box they had to sell it on via the model shop think it had intercity on the side but need to check. Some have pointed out on other forums BR used to sometimes mix liveries within a rake meaning that you might come across an intercity HST livery or network southeast or even regional railways within a rake so on that principal should I mix it up to create a authentic charter rake or stick to one livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The first Mk2s were vac braked. Mk2A onwards were air. Basically you just have to be careful with number ranges. Hymeks had retired by '75 in the midst of the Blue & Grey era, so later coach liveries didn't trouble the hydraulics. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Some have pointed out on other forums BR used to sometimes mix liveries within a rake meaning that you might come across an intercity HST livery or network southeast or even regional railways within a rake You also wouldn't have got HST livery (presumably you mean the "125" branded Mk3s?) in loco hauled coaching sets either, as HST trailers and hauled coaches are not compatible. Mixed up liveries (Intercity, Network Southeast, or whatever) from the mid 1980s onwards? Yep! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) The HST livery thing was trying to think of a way of describing the Black n white/or cream livery and ended up with that i guess i could have used Swallow/Executive instead Edited October 16, 2014 by jamessolomon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well in the early 1970's, which is the era your locos would represent, assuming they are all painted plain blue, the only colour the Mk2's were painted at that time was blue and grey, so for authenticity any other colour is out. I wonder if by compartment stock you actually mean Mk1's? But it does seem that you are running a bit of a mix - you would not have seen a class 35 Hymek along side an Executive/Intercity liveried HST for example. You may not be bothered by that and just want to run authentic trains, even if it passes one that is out of era. Keeping the 'charter' stock blue and grey only will cover most of what you may want to haul it with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) As you can probably tell coaching stock is as big a minefield as the modeller wishes to make it. 'Chard, Glorious NSE and Titan have covered all the main points so it is really down to you as to how accurate you want to be. For the early to mid 1970s a brief summary for ready to run loco hauled stock would be: Mk1 passenger stock : made by Hornby, Lima, Mainline, Replica and Bachmann - the vast majority were vacuum brake Mk1 Buffet stock : made by Hornby (RMB), Lima (RB), Mainline or Replica (RB) and Bachmann (RMB and RU) - could be vacuum brake only, air brake only or dual braked Mk1 full brake : made by Hornby (too long), Lima (too long), Replica and Bachmann - could be vacuum brake only, air brake only or dual braked Mk2 stock (also described as Mk2S or Mk2Z) : made by Hornby or Bachmann - virtually all vacuum braked Mk2A stock : made by Bachmann - all air braked (until 1976) Mk2B stock : made by Lima - all air braked. The Lima Mk2B buffet should be a Mk2C. Mk2C stock : not made r.t.r, can be converted from Mk2B - all air braked. Mk2C micro buffets not converted until 1980 Mk2D stock (air conditioned, no opening windows) : made by Airfix, Mainline, Dapol and Hornby - all air braked. Mk2D micro buffets not converted until 1980 Mk2E stock (air conditioned, no opening windows) : to be made by Hornby - all air braked Mk2F stock (air conditioned, no opening windows) : to be made by Bachmann - all air braked Mk3A stock (air conditioned, no opening windows, 75 ft long) : strictly speaking only made by Jouef but Hornby or Lima models can suffice - all air braked. Liveries: Maroon from 1956 to about 1972 Blue and grey from 1965 to about 1990 InterCity Executive from 1985 to about 1990 Network SouthEast from 1986 to about 1993 InterCity Swallow from 1987 to about 1996 Edited October 16, 2014 by Flood 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) The 27 i own is this one has a Scottish terrier on the side but was wondering im subscribed on youtube to a few layouts based on that area but tend not to see the Scottish terrier was this removed from some and my research on this loco mentioned it did push pull passenger duties (EDI - GLA i think) and freight would they have been hauling Scottish region BR blue and was there a difference in the coaches for Scottish routes at all. Noticed Hornby have some in there new range but the tinted windows is the biggest complaint when running with older stock and cheers for the info Flood will come in handy. I'm not modeling Scotland but thought it was a cheap bargain and couldn't resist Edited October 16, 2014 by jamessolomon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Here's the buffet car image oops iPad upside down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 That's a Mk 1. Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Is it the chassis or something that gives it away as being mk1 over mk2 or are there other features to look out for when telling them apart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Easiest way to tell: the visible solebar (black in your photo) under the bodyside that makes it a Mk1 - Mk2s gently curve in with no solebar, and Mk1s have the solebar. There are many other differences: window sizes, more curved ends on a Mk2... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plarailfan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Here's the buffet car image oops iPad upside down This is an absolutely huge subject James. Here's a MK1 catering vehicle, which is sandwiched, between MK 2, air braked / air conditioned vehicles. As you can see, the MK 2's don't have any opening windows (except on the doors) https://www.flickr.com/photos/deepgreen2009/7548553582/ Here is a MK 1 catering vehicle, like your model, except this one has been fitted Commonwealth bogies. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3903762126/in/photolist-6WXNty-cfLsC9-dhNjD5-bDfvYy-m7yHJK-cWGDxU-edqh1j-------------------------------------------/ Again, this coach has MK 2 vehicles, these are basically an upgraded MK 1 design, in that they have opening windows - the air conditioning was a later development. If you have a look around model railway exhibition / railway preservation groups, trade stands, or maybe try ebay, you may well find some of the, Platform 5, coaching stock pocket books and similar publications that have been published over the years. Aim to find one with a good sprinkling of photo's. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 We've done "basic coach spotting features" before - suggest having a look here for the *very* basic spotting differences, if you look through the rest of the thread there's a bit more detail as well. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessolomon Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) So what were the golden arrow blue/grey dining cars released ages ago still mk1s and was it run in a special consist Edited October 17, 2014 by jamessolomon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 On 17/10/2014 at 09:19, Glorious NSE said: We've done "basic coach spotting features" before - suggest having a look here for the *very* basic spotting differences, if you look through the rest of the thread there's a bit more detail as well. That’s a useful link 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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