BlackRat Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Popped into a local shop (a local shop for local people)'and had a good old chat with the owner as well as buying a few bits and bobs. Now he is in the main, a dealer in second hand tho he does get the new bits and pieces in, he's not a main dealer for any of the biggies. He does have a reasonable selection tho.......red, blue boxes etc. The topic came around to prices, as I was after a certain brake van, of which he had a few new. One (older stock) at £12 something with the newly arrived ones £23 odd! Conversation continued re the ongoing and upward price spiral and we agreed that as a result, second hand values would start to creep up as well. Now I'm not saying go out and panic buy, but it may well be that as a result of new prices, the ongoing knock on effect will be an inevitable rise in good S/H stock? Your thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted October 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hi, As far as I'm concerned it's already happened. Some silly prices, in my opinion, for pre-owned loco's and rolling stock on eBay and on traders stands at rallies. "What the market will bear" comes to mind. However that will price a lot of us out of said market. I'm going to have to be very selective, as I can't justify the prices asked at the moment. Certainly at new prices and almost everything at pre-owned prices. It's not my only hobby so money is spread out across a few things, but at these rates I'll have to bite the bullet and be thankful I bought my stock when I did. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I find current prices very reasonable, new or s/h., considering the work which goes into the production and sale of what is, with typical 00 RTR offerings, hardly mass-production. It is specialist production often with very low numbers, with expectations from some buyers of 'perfect, and under £100'... which for a complex engine like, say, a Bachmann 9F or Midland Compound, or Hornby A3 or Duke of Gloucester, is still achievable, just, if you shop around and have some luck. (and don't include VAT... ) Imagine if you were setting out to produce models of this quality. DJM comes to mind, and if his King class comes to fruition (I hope it does) it will be slightly? more expensive than most or all comparable RTR 00 steam engines currently listed, and overall I don't think current new or s/h prices are silly. What to people expect? That a manufacturer do an engine, say, with the livery of 1946-48 only, and not pay a fair price for the rather low-volume paint option? Together with the outstanding detail we have come to expect. I would add that the best prices for s/h are usually for as-new condition, and consumer laws apply in any event. So no, I think most prices today are very fair, and won't sky-rocket up, because there is a large stock of quality models likely to enter the market in the next few years? (conjecture on my part). Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Some S/H otems are now fetching the price they were when new, or more, not including ltd editions. But when we are paying over £20 for a wagon it's hardly surprising..it would seem the only way is up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The answer is simple enough, refuse to buy at inflated prices. This is a 'deviation from normal', driven by shortage of newly manufactured product in my view, and should renormalise. Either by the manufacturing position recovering to better supply of new, or floods of s/h appearing in response to high prices and by 'release' as onetime owners leave this world. Or a bit of both... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium James Makin Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2014 I can see both sides of it, it's interesting now that if I see a Bachmann Class 66 at the price they were at back at launch in 2005, I'll begrudingly consider it a 'bargain', but similarly during a big clear out at the start of this year, every single item sold for more than I'd paid for it originally...being the smart guy I am I invested the funds into performance parts for my depreciating cars..! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Walters Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Like the old saying, "If you keep something long enough, it could make one of your descendants rich" ! I buy a fair bit from that well known auction site, but I refuse to pay above retail price for anything, and that includes postage, I've seen some items on there go for more than new, and then theres £5.00 in postage to pay, you might as well buy new if it's available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Country Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Secondhand prices really seem to be dictated by supply and demand. On the supply side, manufacturers are producing smaller batches that generally don't remain in the catalogue much longer than a year, so if you want something specific secondhand is often the only option. Several surplus items I've auctioned on online in recent years have sold for more than their retail price, in one case more than double what I paid new only a few months previously. It seems that if you miss it in the shops you can expect to pay more - in some cases much more - to obtain the models you want. This can also be a risky business if the supplier produces another batch - Bachmann Mk 2s were going for silly money on the auction sites for a while but the price came right back down when they were back in production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2014 There's a particular thing I've been tracking for a while, just missed one a few weeks ago, then one comes up with one of our usual high priced friends. Two more suddenly come up BIN at his price and now some more have appeared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2014 There's a particular thing I've been tracking for a while, just missed one a few weeks ago, then one comes up with one of our usual high priced friends. Two more suddenly come up BIN at his price and now some more have appeared. This is a fairly common feature in the auction world and, by implication must happen on Ebay. It works like this - a rare item comes up and commands quite a high eventual price so immediately other folk 'who happen to have one' think they can make a killing and put theirs on sale, and teh law of supply and demand kicks in and the price drops. What people usually miss is the key of watching the bidding - thus if there are plenty of bidders until the price reaches, say, £50 but two then remain in and carry the price to, say, £500 all that really happens is that two people were prepared to fight it out to that level and clearly all the other bidders only 'valued' the item at £50. Thus when the next one (or half a dozen) come along while the original under-bidder might still be prepared to pay £500 nobody else is prepared to go above £50 and so he gets it for £55 and has happily 'saved' over £400. And all that is now left in the market is the £50 bidders some of whom realise that once the ones who really mean it have paid £50 they might pick up an example of whatever it is for less. And if you're selling the trick is of course to get in first - thus a few years ago I did rather well on Ebay selling something that was allegedly almost unsaleable (it had gone through two live auctions without a bid) but the chap I know who has 20 of this particular (non-railway related) thing is not likely to ever sell all of them let alone get what I did for mine. Equally, and provided that you want all of it (or have disposal pre-arranged) a private bidder will always beat a dealer when buying because you don't need to account for on-costs and profit if you're buying for yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve22 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Like 'Mickey's Law', I've often seen some second hand items at what I consider (just my opinion) to be over the top. Then again, my local model shop occasionally has some real s/h bargains in. Recently, I bought four second hand but good as new coaches, all boxed and models I wished to buy, for the total price of just three pounds over the cost of ONE, brand new. Very happy bunny, me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internut Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I have just started attending Toy and Collector's fairs in Sussex and generally found a few bargains (weagons and points mainly) - mind you I had to update my loco list recently as I had forgotten what I actually had hidden away. I just leave E-bay for "must haves" and get my tribe to buy it for me at Christmas or birthday time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2014 Yep, think you are behind the curve there. For sure S/H already gone up. Look at Hattons pre owned site for evidence of that However its not across the board. I'd say prices for newer Hornby (I mean their newer models since Clan Line) and more recent Bachmann (not split chassis) have already gone through roof. In part because of lack of supply new models. However tender driven Hornby, older Bachmann seem still to be reasonable. But then , although you save the pennies, you also have to put up with poorer running qualities. I note some second hand dealers put their best models straight to ebay, to secure higher price. So browsing round these shops now you tend only to find the more common S/H items . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongudmund Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I've commented before on how there seems to be a minimum price for second/hand e.g. all the 80s Hornby wagons for things that never existed. Tango box vans always spring to mind. At a show on the weekend and one of the dealers had trays and trays of them for £4 minimum. He had the same trays the year before and the year before that and it looks like the same stock. I've thought of getting some junk wagons to practice weathering on. I'm waiting for genuine junk prices. I'd pay a pound, maybe two for a practice wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2014 Picked up one of he original Hornby Gresley coaches for£8 last week. I know the purists will be horrified but it he helped me build up,a rake of 6 behind my new P2. Certainly wasn't going to spend £40 + on what is a dalliance with the big 4. This follows spending £80 on a compound and patriot a few weeks ago. The compound is fine , but the patriot tends to stall on my diamond crossings. May replace it with a Bachmann one. But turning to second hand to keep my interest going. Main interest is BR transition and BR Blue. But P2 reawakened my interest on LMS andLNER,but would never pay full price for what is a wee indulgence on my part Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oatmeal Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 From an amateur's (and currently professional ditherer over what I'm buying!) perspective prices do seem really high on the second hand side of things. I've been watching second hand digital sets on ebay. An older version of the Bachmann digital starter set went for £105 in p+p when I've seen it new for £127. The Hornby Mixed Freight set I've seen go for £177 when it's currently £149.99 at Amazon (although £200 elsewhere). And bear in mind I guess that some of these sets will have been played with by young kids, it's not worth saving £20. When I was last dithering you could pick up a Bachmann class 25 for £50ish quid on sale at ehattons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2014 Interesting thoughts above. I've just been idly browsing around looking to increase the CCT rakes. Currently five blue and one maroon of Lima origin (though some badged Hornby) and of course our friends at Invicta have recently released their Bachmann commissioned version. So the new ones are around £30 and very nice they are too. I wondered if that might have had an impact on price and availability of the older ones which sometimes turn up at as little as a fiver. Only one maroon was found anywhere and that was with Rails who were asking almost £30 for it. I don't feel a need for more blue ones nor do I have funds for a one-for-one upgrade but noticed there were a few of the blue ones around the traps starting from around £20. Far from an increase in the old ones in second-hand / "like new" (to use the Liverpudlian term) listings there seems to have been a buying spree on those as well with prices rising sharply. In the end I opted for two of the new maroon ones which won't exactly match the Lima one but with the price almost the same ......... Now don't get me started on the appearance of "Exclusives" in other retailer's lists (step up for shame in Liverpool) and sometimes at higher prices "like new" than they can still be obtained for brand new from the commissioning retailer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I tend to keep away from both Buy it now and dealers on Ebay and certainly second hand traders at shows. Dealers/traders are there to make a profit and in nearly all cases ask for premium prices. Auction sites can be good but you have to invest time in sorting out the wheat from the chaff. One good place is at shoes and club stands, earler this year I bought a Craftsman LMS 1F kit with wheels and motor for £23 (the wheels alone would cost more new) and a couple of weeks ago a Keyser GWR rail car (with the better older style wheels and motor) for £10. Both as brand new, untouched and with instructions etc. Like wise and still excellent value a few weeks ago I won off Ebay a Western Precision (Cotswold) Castings LMS 3F, again untouched with the milled brass chassis at a great price of £22.75 inc postage. This proves there are good value items around, but you have to look out for them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I just last week got a blue Lima CCT for £5 plus post from eBay. The price of the old Lima stuff does seem to be heading down at the moment as newer, better detailed stuff is released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2014 Must've been a bad day today when I looked then I've certainly seen them at £5, more often around £10 but nothing today under £20. They come and go all the time of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2014 Must've been a bad day today when I looked then I've certainly seen them at £5, more often around £10 but nothing today under £20. They come and go all the time of course. Maybe it's time to sell mine? As far as prices go the answer is simple I think - the best buying prices are usually found on the sort of stalls John (Hayfield) has mentioned, from some of the more sensible folk at the 'toy fair' type venues (but only some, others price like EBay BIN dealers), and from live auctions (where you obviously take a chance with locos in particular). And of course this isn't surprising as secondhand dealers and the Ebay 'traders' are in it to make profit, and quite probably to support their lifestyle and fancy holidays etc while shops have overheads as well as profits to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I try to look for the 'collectors' sites or stands. With these outlets, the condition of the box is almost as important as what is inside. Therefore a decent model in a tatty box can be marked well down compared with the price of a similar item in a pristine box. Of course, all unboxed items are even better value if you don't care whether it has a box or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Even the bottom of the range prices are getting silly. Hornby 4 wheel coaches at £20 and you could get an 0-4-0 for under a tenner but now its £20-25. The price of new oo items now compares with that of g gauge ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Mickey's Law of Secondhand states If I want to buy something, the price is high.....If I wish to sell, the price is low works for me everytime! My philosphy on selling is that nowt's worth owt 'til you want to flog it and then it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. If you are buying and don't like the price, walk away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 When selling, it is always worth considering whether the spare parts you could recover from the model are actually worth more than the potential value of the sale. Certainly this is true in 7mm scale, with a pair of wagon wheels not unadjacent to £9 these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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