rapidotrains Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hi guys, Below are some photos of the mould progress on the APT-E. These are the mould cores for the Power Car (top) and Trailer Car (bottom) shells: This is one half of mould #9. You can see the nose of the APT-E - it's the very obvious trapezoidal thing in the middle: These are just a few of the hundreds of copper EDM electrodes used in the machining process. EDM stands for Electrical Discharge Machining. After the tools are rough cut, the EDM machine will erode the finer shapes and details on the mould using, basically, electrical sparks. The copper electrodes (which are machined using CNC) are the inverse of what the part will look like on the mould. These are used to burn the shapes into the steel mould. For very fine parts, the eroding is done on a separate insert which is then welded into the mould. That's why in the above photo you can see some big open spaces. Here are more recognizable electrodes - APT-E belly details! Here is the EDM process underway. It's done in oil, which acts as an insulator. This is the TC floor mould. And in this photo we're setting up the EDM machine for the zinc weight mould. The EDM electrode has just cut away a section in the middle of the PC weight and now it's being set up to cut away another section. Our manager reports that the mould shop is working flat out to get us something in time for the show. We're looking forward to it! Best regards, Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2014 Great progress, but I can't see the cheese sandwich mould... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 ...I can't see the cheese sandwich mould... You will once the bread goes past its sell-by date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Great progress, but I can't see the cheese sandwich mould... It's being made at the cheese sandwich mould factory in Aberystwyth. -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2014 It's being made at the cheese sandwich mould factory in Aberystwyth. -Jason I think you missed a trick there, should have had it made in NE Wales, MOLD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted October 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2014 Jason: How many reproductions should these moulds be capable of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Jason: How many reproductions should these moulds be capable of? Only about 250,000. I'm worried we'll wear them out...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thank you for this very informative insight into the production process, a clear description of some of the manufacturing components we often hear about but rarely see. By the way, what is the string of purple beads for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted October 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thank you for this very informative insight into the production process, a clear description of some of the manufacturing components we often hear about but rarely see. By the way, what is the string of purple beads for? Prayer? Sorry... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The APT-E may be considered by some as the holy grail of railway modeling but I can't imagine our friends from Canada resorting to the Sacred Virgin for resolving the tilting conundrum. Besides, the Guru of Tilt is already on board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted October 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2014 I may jest, but I'm impressed with the project so far. I have the sound-fitted version on order and hope that Rapido's reputation for high quality products will be maintained with this model. All the signs are that it will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The purple 'beads' look like flexible coolent/oil pipes, if you look closely you can see the liquid gushing out of them. Presumably these things get hot whilst eroding, plus I think that it was mentioned that they need to use oil as part of the process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 The purple 'beads' look like flexible coolent/oil pipes, if you look closely you can see the liquid gushing out of them. Presumably these things get hot whilst eroding, plus I think that it was mentioned that they need to use oil as part of the process. Right first time! -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 I may jest, but I'm impressed with the project so far. I have the sound-fitted version on order and hope that Rapido's reputation for high quality products will be maintained with this model. All the signs are that it will be. Well I certainly hope so! The APT-E is coming from the new MLW factory (next to the TLI factory - they make Three Letter Initialisms). That factory has so far delivered the HO scale GMD-1 locomotive (in several liveries) as well as HO scale and N scale freight cars. The GMD-1 is very complex and it has been very well received. We've only had two or three dozen come back to us with problems out of several thousand. The only significant problem we've had so far was the initial packaging of some of the freight cars did not withstand the beating by UPS and Canada Post and some of the bits came off, so we redesigned that. Now our packaging test is not just throwing the model down the stairs or over a balcony - now we whip it against a wall and smash it into the corner of a desk, as I did in China with our redesigned freight car packaging. I'll film the APT-E packaging test for YouTube next year. You can see some packaging tests in the videos below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpVgKTjmZHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1m4Mqd32cA My biggest concern is going to be DCC issues. It is possible for a decoder to get scrambled if a DCC system is overtaxed or someone at the club accidentally reprograms every locomotive on the layout. And then suddenly nothing works! A lot of guys don't really understand their DCC systems, as I was reminded at an op session last night when I was the only person who could remember how to form a locomotive consist using Digitrax, and I don't have Digitrax at home! As such it's easy to "misprogram" your train. It's important to have a programming track where you can easily do a factory reset in just such occasions. Anyway, we'll have to make sure Charlie is kitted out with a state-of-the-art DCC repair centre over in Leeds so you don't have to send your "misprogrammed" APT-E models back to Canada for repair. -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Well I certainly hope so! The APT-E is coming from the new MLW factory (next to the TLI factory - they make Three Letter Initialisms). That factory has so far delivered the HO scale GMD-1 locomotive (in several liveries) as well as HO scale and N scale freight cars. The GMD-1 is very complex and it has been very well received. We've only had two or three dozen come back to us with problems out of several thousand. The only significant problem we've had so far was the initial packaging of some of the freight cars did not withstand the beating by UPS and Canada Post and some of the bits came off, so we redesigned that. Now our packaging test is not just throwing the model down the stairs or over a balcony - now we whip it against a wall and smash it into the corner of a desk, as I did in China with our redesigned freight car packaging. I'll film the APT-E packaging test for YouTube next year. You can see some packaging tests in the videos below. My biggest concern is going to be DCC issues. It is possible for a decoder to get scrambled if a DCC system is overtaxed or someone at the club accidentally reprograms every locomotive on the layout. And then suddenly nothing works! A lot of guys don't really understand their DCC systems, as I was reminded at an op session last night when I was the only person who could remember how to form a locomotive consist using Digitrax, and I don't have Digitrax at home! As such it's easy to "misprogram" your train. It's important to have a programming track where you can easily do a factory reset in just such occasions. Anyway, we'll have to make sure Charlie is kitted out with a state-of-the-art DCC repair centre over in Leeds so you don't have to send your "misprogrammed" APT-E models back to Canada for repair. -Jason Very informative post. The only DCC reprogramming I do is change the loco address from 3 to something else ( normally the actual loco number). I do this on a rolling road to ensure everything functions as desired. Of course the apt will be a bit longer than that so will it be possible to reprogram the number using just the car with the chip or will I need to assemble the entire train and jack the power cars up? The other snag I have is the prototype did not really have a number..... Guess it will be that on the certificate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The postage test needs to be a lot more tougher. To be delivered to me it has be thrown through 2 x ray machines, thrown under in and out of vans with other parcels that are much bigger and heavier thrown of top, you then need an army of postal workers with hob nail boots walking over it, followed by several catapults into an aircraft and several catapults out again and finally fired from a mortar tube over my front gate to land head on slamming into concrete. If your packaging survives that, I will consider it apt for service! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike70 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Only about 250,000. I'm worried we'll wear them out...... Suggests orders are going well... My first train set was the Hornby APT. I went to see the APT-E last week at Shildon. Can't wait to see the Rapido Model. All the noises sound positive. You don't get production updates like this from the other suppliers... I'm hoping we will hear about new Rapido UK projects soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted October 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2014 The postage test needs to be a lot more tougher. To be delivered to me it has be thrown through 2 x ray machines, thrown under in and out of vans with other parcels that are much bigger and heavier thrown of top, you then need an army of postal workers with hob nail boots walking over it, followed by several catapults into an aircraft and several catapults out again and finally fired from a mortar tube over my front gate to land head on slamming into concrete. If your packaging survives that, I will consider it apt for service! You must mean 'APT-E in service' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Is there a vibration test in your packaging proving regime? Can be a problem, I suspect it lies behind many complaints of buffed or scuffed paint finishes on models. ...The other snag I have is the prototype did not really have a number..... Guess it will be that on the certificate! Use the numeric values of the letters APTE, treated as you wish? I'd go for 1725. A=1; P=16, 1+6=7; T=20, 2+0=2, E=5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Or 152 for the speed record Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Jason Thank you for taking the time to show exactly how the design manufacturing process works and the man y stages of the tool making process, now everyone can understand what goes into producing an RTR model and why the sale price is as it is. Thank you. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Jason Thank you for taking the time to show exactly how the design manufacturing process works and the man y stages of the tool making process, now everyone can understand what goes into producing an RTR model and why the sale price is as it is. Thank you. Pete My pleasure, Pete. In 2012 I was in negotiations to end a partnership. A business advisor told me I didn't want new investors as it's a pain in the rear to report to investors. At which point my lawyer turned to him and said that Jason tells the public more than most CEOs tell their investors. I don't believe in BS when communicating with my customers. -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I personally have never seen such open communication from a manufacturer. It's great. The only sort of firm I would feel confident about investing in too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The APT-E may be considered by some as the holy grail of railway modeling but I can't imagine our friends from Canada resorting to the Sacred Virgin for resolving the tilting conundrum. Besides, the Guru of Tilt is already on board. Hehehe, actually Canada has its own 'Guru of Tilt' in the shape of Trevor Easton who was on Tilt Development in the APD and appears in some of the pics I have on the APT-E Train site. Trevor was a main mover and shaker on the LRC project and he knows his stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 FIRST TEST SHOTS! Otherwise known as big lumps of black plastic.... And they are still working away on the moulds right now... We should have more than just a couple of big lumps of plastic at Warley..... -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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