Steve's Caledonian loco work bench

[Londontram]

Hello Mike Yes it is a pannier chassis off the LT pannier in fact, My son picked it up second hand in the "Night Freight" set but it was out side my period so was earmarked for the conversion list. I was going to build the jumbo on it as I liked the look of the Bachmann wheels which somehow looked a little bigger and more in keeping with the jumbo.

 

    But even though these conversion some times have to compromise on the amount of motor that can be seen below the boiler it soon became clear that the width of the can motor would have made the compromise to great and (I actually got to the stage of mounting the body with a boiler tube on the Bachmann chassis before giving in) so I swapped to the Hornby chassis, again there's a compromise as some of the motor still shows but much less in this case and its easier to hide also the Hornby wheels are about 2mm to small but it doesn't seem to notice on the finished model and I cant afford to fit Romfords at the moment so I'll live with it.

 

    Its a shame as the Bachmann chassis is a very quite runner with good slow speed control mind you the newer Hornby motor is a good runner too but they have a bit of a growl to them anyway the chassis works well on the 782 as the tanks hide the wider motor nicely. Thanks for looking in and all the likes Steve

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Steve, nice job. You asked if any thing was missing? I notice that the footplate valance is missing the turned down bits at each end. I think they would make the foot plate look finished. Without them it seems to look a bit boxy? Is it too late to add them?

 

Regards

Sandy

[Londontram]

Thanks Sandy your right. Top man you might have saved my bacon there, I must admit I had thought about it in the early days but had completely forgot, sometimes I think your just to close to the subject that obvious things slip you by. Its defiantly not to late and I think I might try to add them with filler at this stage as when dry I can carve the shape with a scalpel blade as it doesn't have to be super smooth. Thanks again Steve

 

Edit - change of plan I think after looking at the loco I'll make some small triangular fillets from plasticard and super glue in place. When dry I can dress them with a half moon needle file to get the right shape.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Londontram

[Sandy Harper]

Thanks Sandy your right. Top man you might have saved my bacon there, I must admit I had thought about it in the early days but had completely forgot, sometimes I think your just to close to the subject that obvious things slip you by. Its defiantly not to late and I think I might try to add them with filler at this stage as when dry I can carve the shape with a scalpel blade as it doesn't have to be super smooth. Thanks again Steve

 

Edit - change of plan I think after looking at the loco I'll make some small triangular fillets from plasticard and super glue in place. When dry I can dress them with a half moon needle file to get the right shape.

Steve, That sounds like a plan! I think it will make a huge difference to the look of the loco.

 

Glad to be of service

 

PS I once built, and painted, a 7mm Coronation only to discover that I had forgotten to put the boiler bands on!!!!

[Londontram]

In the end I went for a combination of both ideas by first cutting some small triangle shapes and gluing these behind the running plate valance and using this as a backing added some filler to the front edge. When this had dried I filed the shape into them and sanded off the excess filler so the ends of the valance looks much better now

[Londontram]

Well I'm waiting on the weather now for a dry day so I can put a coat of gray primer on the 782 tank so I can have a good look at the body to see if there's any faults that require attention then its just the elusive hand rail knobs. I've had another little job for a friend over the weekend but that's boxed up ready to go home so after tidying the work bench (Long overdue) I had a thought about whats next and decided to go for the big one.

The Caledonian railway McIntosh 903 class 4-6-0 "Cardean"

 

I've been collecting bits for this for a long while and have a white metal 8 wheel bogie tender that just needs new side frames and some other restoration. This came from Andy "uax6" but may have come originally from Richard "Ben alder" anyway who ever thanks guys as this will save a lot of work. The chassis will be a Hornby B12 which wheel size and wheel base is exactly right, other parts will come from a variety of sources the splasher for example will come from a couple of GBL T9 running plates left over from supplying parts for other builds. These are an awkward shape with separate splashers for the wheels and con rods and splicing these parts in will save a lot of work as well.

 

I like to research a subject as much as I can and collect as many views as I can and one of the best books for anyone scratch building Caledonian locos is this one.

 I know I talked about this book when doing the 492 tank but although an old book Its a veritable feast of facts and figures with tables of information with dimensions for every aspect of each locomotive. Here's one page with some basic frame dimensions, the 903 class is the one under lined with the ruler

 

   So armed with this and the parts already collected I made a start and the first job was the valance strips for the running plate, this was made to the same style as the 492 and 782 tanks from square section brass rod. Made 4mm to long a V was cut into the rod and the end bit was bent through 90 degrees and soldered up to make the turn down behind the buffer beam this was dressed with a file to give the correct shape (See Sandy I remembered this time) In the next picture you can see one of these rods laying on the plans showing that its the right length.

 

For the running plate its self I found a sheet of plasticard and making sure that I was working from a perfect 90 degree corner with two straight edges I marked out and cut out the running plate at the same time cutting two more short sections for the buffer beam and drag box back plate. Here are the running plate parts with the valance rods and the B12 chassis and tender at the back.

The next stage and the point where I'm leaving it today is the marking out of the running plate ready to cut out the center section to sit over the wheels and motor.

 

   That's as far as I've got today but there's something special about cutting the first pieces for a new loco you sort of feel like making speeches and asking the mayor to make the token first cut.

 

   Anyway enough of that next time I might make the steps like I did for the 782 tank from brass and I can then attach these to the valance rods before fixing them to the running plate. Here's one final picture of the GBL T9 running plates which have so graciously donated there splashers to this project.

Actually these GBL locomotive have been a real boon to a lot of scratch builder I know they have for me as they've provided a load of useful parts that can be used in builds like this and one loco can provide parts for two or three scratch builds making them a worth while investment (I wish I'd got more Caledonian singles at the time I know that for sure)

 

   Any way thanks for looking and as always feel free to add your thoughts  and views at least then I know people are interested in these builds plus I like to chat. Regards Steve

Edited November 24, 2015 by Londontram

[uax6]

Do you want another splasher assembly to cut to put infront of the cab? I'm sure on of my GBL T9's can donate a pair for you.

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

Actually that would help thanks Andy No rush though as I've got plenty to do before I tackle them. Its quite a complex shape around the cab and is made up of three layers if you look. Going into the cab the lowest layer is the main splasher which turns up slightly then the cab side sheet and finally the con rod splasher sits over the top of the cab side sheet.

 

    I did at first hope to use one of the T9 cabs but its about 2mm too short so I'll make it from plasticard instead. I thought I had a smoke box door for it but after measuring it it turns out its a Dunalastair one so looks like I'll have to make one by sanding off a disc like you/ve done on some of your builds

[uax6]

Whats the dimensions of the smokebox door, I can have a look through the 'odd castings' pot and see if there's anything in there that will do.

 

I'm interested how you work out how to cut the footplate. Its always the bit that I have trouble with...

 

Andy G

[Sandy Harper]

Well done on remembering Steve! I was offered a part scratch built Oban Bogie 4-6-0 today. It needs a lot of building left to do, and I don't think I want to commit to any more at the moment with enough HR prototypes to be getting on with.

 

If anyone is interested in a 'kit of parts' plus wheels, let me know! 7mm scale by the way!

Regards

Sandy

[Londontram]

I'm down stairs now Andy just about to have some tea so I'll have a look at the smoke box door later thanks.

 

On the running plate (Well any plasticard cutting really) you must be working from at least two straight edges at 90 degrees to each other so with a sheet of plasticard I work my way round it for large jobs like the running plate but don't be afraid to mark out and slice off a section of the plasticard to get back to straight edges and corner A good small engineering set square is a must and can be got of ebay for only about £5

 

I made sure I got the width of the running plate right this time (after my almost cock up with the 782 tank) and its 8ft wide that's 32mm in 4mm scale, the cross lines are the axle lines of the bogie wheels (The second one from the left is the bogie pivot point and the chimney center line) the others are the main axles. The section to be cut out takes into account the wheels and con rod big ends and gives 2 to 3mm each side to mount the splashers on. The length is only minimum estimate to clear the wheels and motor and might need tweaking as the running plate is offered up to the chassis (The others did) All being well I should be able to use or adapt the original mountings for the body that.s one of the pluses for this build is the chassis doesn't need altering at all.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Londontram

[Buhar]

Hi Steve, I can't quite see on the photo of the B12 chassis, but do the balance weights push out?  Those on the B12 are great big chunks whereas 903's are much finer.  Otherwise it's going to be a fiddly filing job.

[ian@stenochs]

Cardean T9 splashers.jpg

Actually these GBL locomotive have been a real boon to a lot of scratch builder I know they have for me as they've provided a load of useful parts that can be used in builds like this and one loco can provide parts for two or three scratch builds making them a worth while investment (I wish I'd got more Caledonian singles at the time I know that for sure)

 

   Any way thanks for looking and as always feel free to add your thoughts  and views at least then I know people are interested in these builds plus I like to chat. Regards Steve

 

This thread reminds me of the Railway Modeller in the 60s where almost every issue had an article on converting the Triang Princess into something else! I remember too that Gem did a white metal kit for the Cardean which used the B12 chassis.

 

Ian

[uax6]

That Gem Kit is in the process of being re-introduced I believe.....

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

Yeah but you know me and kits Andy look at the 782 for example. Mind you that Gem kit for Cardean could be the origin of the white metal tender that you gave me

Edited November 24, 2015 by Londontram

[Londontram]

As planned the next logical step was to make the steps so they could be soldered to the valance strips before they were glued to the Running plate. Nothing new here I'm afraid as they steps were built as they have been for most of the other locos from a strip of brass which just happens by luck to be the same size as the widest part of the steps on all the Caledonian locos. As before once the basic lengths were cut and the bottom part of the step was bent up the two front and the two rear were sweat soldered back to back and while held in a vice the shape was filed in to them with a selection of round and half moon files, so at least even if there not right at least they match LOL.
 
    Don't worry they are right when held against the plans, when the steps were done the sweat solder join was broken and each step was soldered onto the valance rod checking the position against the plans The second center step on the rear steps was added at the same time. By the way when soldering this step in place I managed to some how solder the tweezers I was using to the steps, that's them ruined as they stick to what ever I solder now.
 
In this first  picture is the steps soldered onto the valance rod being checked against the plans - looking good from here

 
I did say that the chassis didn't need any work but in fact the front bogie will need to move forward about 2mm to match Cardean and this can be seen when I trial fitted the running plate on the chassis where it looks like the rear wheels on the front bogie might just catch the steps so that will need attention some time. Hopefully it will just a case of elongating the hole in the supporting are to shift the bogie forward, I had to do the opposite on one of the Dunalastair's to move a bogie back which is to elongate the hole and fill the old area with solder.
 
Anyway next job was to cut out the center section where the running plate will sit over the wheels and motor and then fit the front buffer beam which after the position was finalized was glued in place my set square being used to get it at a perfect 90 degree angle to the running plate.

 
Once the glue on the buffer beam was dry the valance strips were fitted using super glue and clamped in place with some small bulldog style clips as you can see in this next picture.

 
All though I had originally cut a piece of plastic for the drag box back plate I changed it to a brass one and soldered it to each side valance strip and super glued it to the running plate as I felt it could use a bit of strength in this area as the chassis and body mounting screw would be round here some where but also the tender coupling, you can just see the brass strip the in the picture above.
 
When all this was set I did a trial fit of the running plate and it looks promising with the running plate tucked under the original B12 front mount the running plate is exactly at the right height so I'll be able to use this as the bases for the front mount with out to much work. Have a look and see what you think.

You can see here if you compare this picture with the plans above where the bogie needs shifting forward 2mm to bring the rear bogie wheel just in front of the steps as they are on the plans.
 
The wife's going round her sisters for one of her girlie nights with all there friend so I might be able to sneak upstairs and do a bit more later but that's all for now. Thanks for looking Steve

Edited November 25, 2015 by Londontram

[uax6]

Yet another loco that uses the generic cab steps.... Available from SE Finecast as King Arther steps... The Highland Railway use alot of these steps..

 

Sorry Steve, gatecrashing your thread (again) just typing things as they come to mind, they might be useful to someone! (probably me as my memory is rubbish!) 

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

Please Andy feel free I'm not one of these people who jealously guards there threads and thinks there should be no deviation from the thread topic, you know me better than most and what I'm like with drifting off at Tangents in  some of the private mails we've swapped over the past few years.

 

As to the N15 steps well half of them were built at North British who most likely said to Urie "Don't worry about the steps we've got some that will do" I mean think how much drawing time you could save with drawings for fittings like steps etc being brought "Off the peg". I think we've discussed before how dimensions of parts on Caley and Highland locos that came from the North British drawing boards are the same.

I think we sometime don't realize how much influence the Scottish CMEs and The North British Co. had on the rest of the country in the latter part of the 19th century  especially the southern company's where it was almost de rigueur for Scottish CME to rotate through positions there between jobs with the Scottish railway companies

[uax6]

I like the fact that when the French wanted 50 locos in a hurry, the NBL supplied 50 Highland Castles, with wider cabs...

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

I did a bit more tonight, the first thing was to remove the front bogie and cut off the front of the bogie where the old Hornby coupling fitted as I'll be using screw couplings and will be fitting the guard irons to the bogie front like I did on the Dunalastair's

I also soldered a washer to the supporting arm shifting the mounting hole back about 2mm moving the bogie forward by the same amount and looking at this first picture you can see that the wheels line up perfectly with the plan.

 

The only other job tonight was to cut one of the splashers away from the old T9 running plate which as the plastic is quite soft came away very easily, in the next picture I've test sat it in place to see how it fitted and I think its going to work very well, Have a look and see what you think

Only another five to go. No seriously it took only a few mins to get this so wont take long to do the others and once spliced together should look the dogs do dars

Steve

Edited November 24, 2015 by Londontram

[Mike 84C]

Brilliant Steve, at this rate you will have it finished by the weekend! My GSR 4-6-0 got dropped onto the tile floor and did lots of damage so is going to get a total rebuild starting with a new chassis from Comet. Please keep these locos coming, I do like the way you think outside the box.

  Mike  

[Londontram]

Hi Steve, I can't quite see on the photo of the B12 chassis, but do the balance weights push out?  Those on the B12 are great big chunks whereas 903's are much finer.  Otherwise it's going to be a fiddly filing job.

Come on now don't be daft it wouldn't be my locos on a budget bodge bench if I start fitting the right wheels would it

Edited November 24, 2015 by Londontram

[Londontram]

Brilliant Steve, at this rate you will have it finished by the weekend! My GSR 4-6-0 got dropped onto the tile floor and did lots of damage so is going to get a total rebuild starting with a new chassis from Comet. Please keep these locos coming, I do like the way you think outside the box.

  Mike

Thanks mike I fear that this is going to take a tad longer as there's way more to make on this one, I was spoilt with the jumbo and 782 tank as using the singles boiler meant the safety valves chimney and dome were already there but for this they will have to be made plus the air pump etc, and it tows around a bloody great lump behind it so no this is not going to a quick job LOL.

 

Sorry to hear about your mishap I did the same if you recall with one of the Dunalastair's but lucky it was repairable in my case

Edited November 25, 2015 by Londontram

[Londontram]

Here's something to think about a few months ago I was discussing with a friend (Yes I have a few) my wish list and my up and coming build plans and I mentioned that I would soon be starting the 782 tank and he questioned if it was worth the effort when S E Finecast do the white metal body line kit for cir. £50 I pointed out that my funds were tight and £50 could buy me a lot of plasticard etc.

 

  But it got me thinking, like lots of people I lingered on the side to afraid to dip my toes in not wanting to take the plunge. But when I did and completed the 0-8-0 492 tank it caused a shift in my out look and I now look at every loco as a potential scratch build and as soon as I see it my mind goes into over drive working out how I would approach the build of a particular aspect of the loco.

 

   This got me thinking about kits and I realized that most of the first generation white metal ones were designed and put on sale way before we had tools like cad drawing or 3D printing and to build the kit some one had to scratch build a master. Many of these early kits were adapted to fit RTR chassis too so might not be as accurate as we think and the master was only going to be as good as the ability of the chap who built it in the first place and as you know there are some good kits out there but there are some pretty awful ones too that are almost impossible to put together with wheels rubbing on the inside of the body's and mis fitting castings.

 

   So in reality when we put a kit together all your doing is building a clone of some one else's scratch build and in many cases the parts are that badly fitting that they have to be fettled and altered to the point where it would be easier to have made it your self

 

So if you've been tempted by what I've done then I would recommend having a go

 

I will just add one of the most important aspects of any build is research which is great fun in its self but gather as much information, pictures and dimensions as you can and even a good simple line diagram can make a big difference and a lot of mine were down loaded from the internet. Typing in the class of loco will often bring up lots of information but change the request to "Images of so and so class locomotive" and you will often get a page with lots of pictures of that class and often a few basic drawings which you can copy, resize and print. With Cardean for example I've been collecting information for over a year and am still finding new information and pictures.

 

    One source of information I have used is ebay for example if I type in Caledonian railway I get about 10 pages of mainly period post card and photos for sale which I must admit I just copy to my pc any that are of interest. When Cardean is finished I have an extensive file with drawings on the Caledonian 104 class 0-4-4 tank which most likely will be next on the list but I've now started collecting information on the Caledonian No. 1 class 4-4-0 passenger tank loco as well and in time will build up a portfolio with enough information to have a crack at that as well.

 

   Don't forget old books there often better than some of the new picture heavy books that seem to be in vogue at the moment but in the fifties and sixties it seems little boys liked facts and figures more and the book I mentioned a few posts back "Forty years of Caledonian locos" is in its self at least 50 years old and cost me only a few pound on ebay but its by far the best book I've got for loco dimensions and in formation

 

  A lot of pre grouping company's have a society that caters for enthusiasts of that company often with its own forum and sources of information and are well worth joining too.

 

  Any way sorry to go on but have a think about it and take a chance and jump in the water feels fine and if you don't like it you can always get back out but at least you've tried.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Londontram

[Buhar]

Come on now don't be daft it wouldn't be my locos on a budget bodge bench if I start fitting the right wheels would it

Fair point, Steve.  I was hoping the balance weights might have been an insert that would just pop out rather than being moulded as part of the wheel.