Steve's Caledonian loco work bench

[Londontram]

Thanks Gary.

 

Don't worry I've not forgotten about our other project Gary but I'm still waiting for that new blade to get here which must be on the slow boat I think.

 

Both the T9 and Caley single tender could be modified but as the Caley one has the tool box on the rear which is not a feature of the Conner I thought the T9 one might be more suitable, as you can see I've already made a start to drawing the parts for the tender chassis which are to the bottom left of the photo of the loco parts.

[BlueLightning]

Don't worry about the delay Steve, I have ordered blades for my cutter from China and they really are on the slow boat with an estimated delivery date of the 29th of August!!!! I'm sure your ones from the US will beat that.

 

Besides while I am working to the appropriate locos for the stock I am much more invested in my current playing with 3-links!! I must order some proper ones and some Screw links for the locos!

 

Gary

[Londontram]

There's not many good photos around of this class showing good detail and giving the locos number so it looks like I'm going for this one No.14 which is an 1871 built Neilson loco

Note some of the Neilson features on these early incarnations which are a smoke box that opens to the left, the extra round hole at either end of the slots in the splasher missing from Dubs & co locos and it seems in the early days the Neilson locos have a "GWR" style safety valve bonnet

[Dave John]

I'm looking forward to seeing this. I fancy having a shot at one sometime, but I am still wondering about how to integrate body and chassis. Anyway, given the detail you have been getting with the silhouette in wagon building its definitely worth a go. 

[Mike 84C]

Steve; You Are Back! good to see the loco mojo has kicked back in.  I shall be watching with interest.

     Mick 

[Londontram]

Thank you Mike, to be honest I've not really been away just up to armpits in wagon building and drawing including some work for other members and to my shame and to the people concerned I've still a few to finish off, Sorry but don't worry they will get done.

 

  Next step with the loco will be to order in the wheels gearbox etc I'm also going to do a test cut on the main parts with the Silhouette maybe in this instance only in 10 thou I can then have a play around to see how it all looks and goes together if it works ok I can use the inner chassis section as a template to cut the chassis out. I've already got the brass strips and spacers as well as bearings for that.

 

  Bit of a Delmer as I would love to build it as first built but to fit with my plans it should be in its rebuilt form with a later Drummond boiler and fittings. Oh dear looks like a case for modeling license again...... ho hum

[Londontram]

The new blade for the Silhouette I ordered about three weeks ago finally came today so I set the cutter up to try and clear the back log of stuff that needed doing finishing up with the parts for the loco, now this was a test cut to get a 3 dimensional look at the project and see how the parts marry together so for ease of cutting I cut all parts twice in 10 thou and have tonight laminated them all together and left them to set overnight between two glass table mats with a heavy weight to make sure they all set flat.

 

God I love the smell of Lemonene in the evenings!

 

Once dry the parts will be 20 thou thick which should make them easier to handle. I need to find a bit of tube suitable for the boiler and smoke box and sort out a tender top to cut down and try on the tender chassis.

All the parts before laminating

And a close up of the splashers which will need cleaning up with a fine file and some emery cloth once the glue has set

[Londontram]

 I fancy having a shot at one sometime, but I am still wondering about how to integrate body and chassis.

To be honest Dave that's my only real worry strip away the fancy bits and the loco is quite simple  but its how to combine the outer chassis over the inner working which is why I'm doing the mock up so I can sit and look at it and think of different approaches to the problem. I think the basics must consist of the inner chassis with the valve gear in brass but the outer chassis must be able to fit over with out to much flexing to minimize the risk of damage if/when servicing the loco. The inner piston and rods can be flat and no wider than the cross head and slide bars with the outer cylinder shape fixed to the outer frame as purely a cosmetic addition.

 

  I was going to give the front wheel a degree of side to side movement but this will be restricted by the slide rods as the front wheels sit right behind this. Hopefully the front wheels will only need a little bit of movement to assist the loco round bends etc. may only as much as 0.5mm either side.

 

  I'd still like peoples views on if its worth doing any form of compensation on the main driving wheel set if as I intend to pick up from these and the tender wheels as well. On the Dunalastair 1 build I split and sleeved the axles on the tender chassis and shorted out the wheels  with a fine wire soldered across the pin point bearings to give me a non frictional pick up so might try that idea again here

 

Feed back please

[Compound2632]

It's that cab roof profile that would fill me with trepidation, never mind the Allan front end!

[Londontram]

It's that cab roof profile that would fill me with trepidation, never mind the Allan front end!

Hmm I know its worrying me too, I'm thinking of building it right up to its full height and gluing a block of plasticard inside and when dry filing and sanding to shape. What do you think

[BlueLightning]

I'm thinking of building it right up to its full height and gluing a block of plasticard inside and when dry filing and sanding to shape.

 

That sounds like a good idea to me.

 

Gary

[Mikkel]

Steve, this must be one of the most ambitious styrene built loco projects ever. Really exciting stuff. I'm impressed with the cuts - I know how long the drawings can take to get right - and especially interested to see that you'll be laminating the whole thing. Will be watching this with interest. 

[Londontram]

Thank you Mikkel, well this is only a test cut and already I've learnt a few things the first being even in brass the main chassis rails will need a bit more depth as when the axle holes are drilled out to fit the brass bearings the holes come pretty close to the top of the chassis rail.

 

The tender and loco outer frames will need to be 40 thou thick and tonight I've glued together the parts I laminated yesterday making the frames now 40 thou when dry I can asses the strength to see if its going to work. 

 

Both the splashers and cab parts are going to be fine at 20 thou

 

I've been through my bits box and found a bit of tube which at 17.5mm is ideal for the boiler/smokebox being just undersize will give me the chance to wrap it with a couple of layers of 10 thou and to form the firebox sides

[Mad McCann]

Well, Steve, good to see you getting stuck in again and with such a bold project.

You've most definitely got big, brass ones mate. Respect!

 

D.

[Londontram]

Well its a case of making hay while the sun shines and SWMBO has had me working in the garden over the week end so modeling time has been quite restricted and as I've got several jobs on the go I don't seem to have got much done on any of them.

 

  The test parts (and remember they are only that at this stage) have all been laminated up with the main outer frame for the loco and tender now a very strong 40 thou with other parts like the splashers and cab sides only 20 thou which for what they are will be fine.

 

Here's a few of the trial parts laid out so you can see what they look like and the potential of making the majority of the loco with the Silhouette.

One of the reasons for doing the trial cut was to see in real terms how the parts enacted with each other makeing sure they fitted basically and it quickly became apparent that the main chassis to be made from brass would not work as first drawn so working with a scale drawing of a mitsumi motor connected to a high level road runner gear box the dimensions of which were supplied by fellow forum member Izzy (Thanks for that Izzy) I redrew the chassis increasing the height of the main side and flattening out the raised area at the front to give a flatter profile to the top of the chassis which at least will be easier to make and cut when its done in brass

In this next shot is the loco with all parts laid out in the right position on Inkscape with the addition of a mock up of the boiler with fittings just to help get a feel of it all.

finally with the motor and gearbox overlaid to see if it fits

Which you can see it does very nicely. Testing on Inkscape means I could try the motor in different positions on different axle facing either way round and it worked out that the motor driving the front driving axle facing back into the fire box was the best solution.

 

All great fun what I can now do is recut the chassis sides and use them as templates to cut the brass chassis. I'm still open to suggestions about some form of compensation and am thinking of maybe a fixed front driving axle and a sprung rear driving axle of some sort so would love your views and ideas before going any further.

 

[N15class]

Best way to compensate the frames is to have the from axle rocking side to side on a central pivot. Use side beams on the two drivers, put the pivot either in the middle or very slightly to the rear. This gives you your proper three points and will run very smoothly.

[Londontram]

Best way to compensate the frames is to have the from axle rocking side to side on a central pivot. Use side beams on the two drivers, put the pivot either in the middle or very slightly to the rear. This gives you your proper three points and will run very smoothly.

Pete I've sent you a pm.

 

                           Steve

[agt613]

Hi

 

Here's the link to Lochaven I wont go into detail as my thoughts are well covered there but suffice to say its a small fictional coastal terminus on the Callander and Oban line hence the reason locos like Cardean and the Grampian coaches wont be viable.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122717-lochaven-a-caledonian-coastal-branchline/

 

The NBR 040 was a commission project initially just to draw and cut the parts but the more I do the more it looks like I'll end up doing most of it

 

Yes I know what you mean about the splashers but learning more about the Silhouette has convinced me that I'm now at a stage where I can do them, the rest of the loco is once you strip it back to its bones fairly conventional the only concerns I have is around the valve gear/front wheel getting that all to work in such a confined space though the first thing I'll do is go back and have a look at Graham Tipple and his Oban Bogie build which if I recall right has a similar valve gear layout with the double frames

Hi Steve, Lovely engine and ideal for a silhouette cutter, I would think,

 

My 179 Oban bogie has inside frames and single slidebar pistons but is at that jaunty angle. I am currently struggling with the cylinders and slide bar  units on a 125 Dundee bogie (horizontal and partly hidden)  and am cheating by using a Hornby Well tank cylinder/slide bar/connecting rod unit from a well known spares supplier. I am also considering changing tack as the throw of the connecting rod on the 6'8" wheel on the125 makes the Hornby slide bars only just long enough and they might pop out in use. Also, they seem to be plastic so may be a bit flimsy when bashed around to make them fit my 125.  I've just received a Markits crosshead which could slide beautifully on 1mm square nickel silver slide bars. I think I'll run it a bit and see.

[gr.king]

Interesting and novel loco building method, via the cutter. How well are those splasher slots going to clean up? That job could be a real pain. At least the compound-curved top-front edge of the cab needn't be a problem - make it thick and square-edged (reinforcing strips within) then file it to the desired curve when the joints have set really hard....

 

Good luck.

Edited August 1, 2017 by gr.king

[Londontram]

Interesting and novel loco building method, via the cutter. How well are those splasher slots going to clean up?

 

Good luck.

Good question I think I'm going to have to have a go and see but I'm pretty sure it should be OK with a bit of fine wet and dry and some micro files I have

[Londontram]

Just been on to Chris at high level and have ordered a 45 to 1 roadrunner gearbox so Markits next to order the drivers and axles. I've gone for the 6ft 2in 24.66mm 18 spoke LNER A2/B1/V2/P2 wheel part No. BRe608xx.

 

This wheel is actually a spoke short as the Conner has 19 spoke wheels but looking at the Markits list this looks the part and I think its one of those cases that unless you know you would never tell. The only other 6ft 2in wheel they do is the BR Britannia wheel which has 20 spokes and also seems to have a heavier looking rim. I've got a few spare markets tender wheels in stock so I'm alright there so its all moving forward.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Londontram

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

Your gonna have fun with that. Can you tell us what the wheelbase is between the drivers. Thanks.

 

manna

[Compound2632]

This wheel is actually a spoke short as the Conner has 19 spoke wheels but looking at the Markits list this looks the part and I think its one of those cases that unless you know you would never tell. The only other 6ft 2in wheel they do is the BR Britannia wheel which has 20 spokes and also seems to have a heavier looking rim.

 

I defy anyone to count the number of spokes when over half the wheel is hidden behind the splashers and that deep valence! So I think you're doing the right thing going for looks not spoke count. The mere fact that you're modelling such an engine as this is distraction enough.

 

A thought about the valence or outside frame, offered, I freely admit, from the depths of my armchair: I noted you laminated it up to 40 thou thick - 1 mm. Would it be better to keep it as thin as possible so that it (and the whole body) could slide over the top of the slidebars etc., these being attached to the 'real' inside frames? I appreciate there might be an issue with keeping everything straight; maybe a bit of 60 thou strip reinforcing the top and bottom? On the real thing, there can't be much clearance for the connecting rod big end - though you're doing this in 00 aren't you? - so a bit more room to spare.

[Londontram]

G'Day Gents

 

Your gonna have fun with that. Can you tell us what the wheelbase is between the drivers. Thanks.

 

manna

Thank you Manna the wheel base between the drivers is 8ft 7in and from the front wheel to the first driving axle is 6ft 6in. I've ordered the gearbox and like yours I have a stock of mitsmi motors so I just need to order the wheels. Next job now I think I've got the chassis how I want it is to sweat together a couple of strips of brass (already in stock) and cut and file it to shape. I can then drill all the axle holes,

I've already got some axle bearings and frame spacers and axles so getting the chassis up and running will be the priority. I'm glad I'm building it in 00 as the slide bars sit over the top of the front wheel which I'd like to give a little side to side movement to and between that and the outside frame I'm thinking its all going to be a bit tight in there.

 

  Oh well that's part of the fun of it isn't it? What was it President Kennedy said when talking about going to the moon "We chose to do this thing not because they are easy but because they are hard" etc.etc.

[Londontram]

I defy anyone to count the number of spokes when over half the wheel is hidden behind the splashers and that deep valence! So I think you're doing the right thing going for looks not spoke count. The mere fact that you're modelling such an engine as this is distraction enough.

 

A thought about the valence or outside frame, offered, I freely admit, from the depths of my armchair: I noted you laminated it up to 40 thou thick - 1 mm. Would it be better to keep it as thin as possible so that it (and the whole body) could slide over the top of the slidebars etc., these being attached to the 'real' inside frames? I appreciate there might be an issue with keeping everything straight; maybe a bit of 60 thou strip reinforcing the top and bottom? On the real thing, there can't be much clearance for the connecting rod big end - though you're doing this in 00 aren't you? - so a bit more room to spare.

  Thanks Compound I must admit I've had the same thoughts and did start by laminating up to 20 thou only but found it a little flimsy but your idea of keeping it thinner over the motion but bracing it up over less critical areas is a good idea and worth exploring and I think I'll cut a couple of more sides and give it a go, that's one of the beauties of the silhouette is that I can run off as many as I like and experiment.

 

  Doing the whole in plasticard is always going to bring compromises and the whole assembly is rather like a house of cards with I'm hoping as more parts come together the strength will increase. The boiler will be a good anchor for all the parts providing the back bone the outer frame will then be fixed to the smoke box at the front the cab at the rear and also the splashers in the middle so you could be right and maybe I'm trying to hard to make individual pieces to stiff at to earlier stage and I need to explore the whole as a monocoque structure more.