Foreign wagons

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

 

It looks as though machinery from Glasgow is a possibility, but anything from further north is unlikely. Cattle from Scotland also seems possible, as the valleys were actually surrounded by open farmland. The contrast once you got out of the valley with its filth was incredible. And I'll forget the Cleator company. A farm move would be interesting. I have seen photos of later such events, eg one in "The Great Western Railway in Wales" in 1947. That would, I assume, need a whole train less its brake van.

 

I agree that such foreign wagons would have been pretty rare but not nonexistent. It is surprising how often accident reports seem to put the blame on foreign wagons - "nothing wrong with ours, guv, it must be that nasty foreigner".

 

I didn't say but my period is 1912 so before any of the common user agreements; therefore wagons would tend to work back empty - giving more traffic for a model of course.

 

I like the idea of a plough being delivered. Another option from East Anglia would be a ploughing engine or similar. Smaller items would probably be sheeted, so you don't know what is there, but I would like to feel that there is at least a small likelihood of traffic from the relevant area.

 

So it looks like some one or two plank Furness, NE, GE, Caledonian, GSWR or North British (the latter three with machinery from the Glasgow area) would be possible. Others less likely except perhaps cattle wagons from Scotland or the North East or North West. (I don't know if the Highland sheep wagons ever got south).

 

I had ruled out timber traffic, even for pitprops, because as someone has said those for South Wales were mostly imported from the Baltic countries and travelled to the colliery as return loads. And there was plenty of other timber in the Cambrian and GWR areas.

 

And I think it would be hard to justify van loads of whisky. Vale of Death, Brains or Felinfach perhaps (the only brewery to own a colliery?) along with plenty from Burton on Trent, but the former would be in GWR vans and the latter in Midland vans.

 

So it looks as if I had better start looking for drawings of some low sided wagons from the above mentioned companies for my next few scratch building projects now that i have just about enough Rhymney vehicles (though a Rhymney cattle wagon is still a challenge to be tackled).

 

And I really need the layout to run them on!

 

Jonathan

 

PS I hope this discussion may also help others. There isn't enough information readily available about actual traffic flows between companies.

[Penlan]

As there were 6 different railway companies running into Merthyr, I thought there might be plenty of opportunity for exchange goods vehicles, but it seems the Rhymney only had a passenger service to Merthyr, though there is a light engine dispatched there occasionally in the Working Timetable after WW1.

[Penlan]

Re. Pit Props, agreed Baltic, but wouldn't they have been shipped into one of the Docks, then into local wagons.

[corneliuslundie]

Perhaps worth a look at the imminent book from the WRRC "Six lines to  Merthyr" by John  Hodge. Not sure whether it has been delivered yet but it is certainly due this month.

 

There is something in the Rhymney or joint line minutes about the GWR no longer running goods trains on the Dowlais line during tghe First World War but I have not found much yet on the Merthyr joint line, though I am still going through Colin Chapman's files. Certainly the Rhymney seems to have taken less interest in the Merthyr line.

 

Jonathan

[John_Miles]

Perhaps worth a look at the imminent book from the WRRC "Six lines to  Merthyr" by John  Hodge. Not sure whether it has been delivered yet but it is certainly due this month.

 

It exists!! I have a copy and in my opinion it is an excellent book. There is not so much on the Rhymney but a lot of Taff and B&M and a decent selection of N&B. Interestingly most of the railways kept their locos in immaculate conditio, the only grubby examples being GWR which goes against what you see in oher locations.

[Penlan]

...... and a decent selection of N&B. 

Neath & Brecon, in Merthyr ?

 

One of the most interesting photo's in the book is on page 106, Plate 202,  (Real Photo's No. H3268) for behind a GWR Class 517, there's a lowfit style wagon with a pantechnicon on it.

The visible lettering is WHITE.. with BRITISH ANNU... in much smaller letters across the middle of White...   The White Brothers  owned the Barry Island Pleasure Park, and obviously also had touring shows as well.

At the Cardiff Model Railway Show this year, when I mentioned this photo, John Miles & Tudor Watkins went into a round of serious giggles, I will let John explain....

[Spitfire2865]

Not sure if you saw my message. Check inbox cornelius. I sent some diagrams of FR stock like you were looking.

[kevinlms]

OK here's an idea for you to justify almost anything.

 

What if your station has a similar name to somewhere else, so much so that a frequent misspelling means that your station ends up with all manner of wagons, from unintended originating locations. Your station staff, have become experts at quickly identifying such wagons & sending them back on their way. That way most foreign wagons can make a brief appearance, before disappearing & not seen again during that operating session. This will give you infinite variety of the most unlikely & obscure wagons.

Somewhat of a challenge. Perhaps a Hearse Van or something - the type of thing that there are kits of, but your staff would want got rid of ASAP! Many railway companies had Manure wagons, another type to clear the yard, even quicker!

[John_Miles]

Neath & Brecon, in Merthyr ?

 

Sorry, had too much Brain's SA before typing that one. Should be B&M of course (only had Burton Bridge tonight).

[corneliuslundie]

Just to correct an earlier statement now I have found the reference. It was passenger traffic which the GWR stopped running on the Taff Bargoed line during the First World War. The purpose of the document was to remind everyone that any passenger rated vehicles sent to the valley would need Westinghouse brakes.

[dseagull]

Just been doing some research into potential traffic myself, and came across this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_fertilizer#British

 

As fertiliser was shipped all over the world from Suffolk, that could justify some GE stock (sheeted opens?)

[newport_rod]

Jonathan

 

This snippet, which I got from Stephen Bell, may help.

 

On 8th March 1913, Pickerings dispatched six pairs of wheels and axles for carriages (3' 7" diameter with 9" x 4" journals) to Machen in Caledonian wagons nos. 42985 and 5826.

 

So quite possibly these wagons ran over the Rhymney at Bargoed. Maybe a CR expert here can tell us what 42985 and 5826 were.

 

Rod