Remote Control - What Functions?

[Ken Anderson]

For the control of a model steam loco what functions are desirable for a controller?

Is forward/reverse/stop and throttle sufficient to emulate how a real loco would be driven?

I'm not interested in 'in loco' sound as I believe under board or background speakers with an independent sound operator offer better solutions. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83931-sound-for-the-masses/page-3

Please don't mention DCC.

[Mike Storey]

If you want to simulate how a real loco would be driven, you will never do it in DC. Some years ago, I did invest in a DC controller that claimed to simulate just that - it had a loco and a "brake" lever and used back EMF. Whilst it did make braking more of an art form, acceleration was still only done by varying a resistor, which meant that, however gentle you were with the controller, acceleration was just that of an EMU with the cover of a steam engine plonked on top. IMHO You will not get that "real feel" (indoors anyway) outside of a simulator or down your dreaded route of 21st century electronics.

 

Stand by for incoming......

[Ken Anderson]

Mike, Thanks.

No I don't intend to use any form of track supply or standard DC.

I'm just seeking advice on control functions.

[davetheroad]

For the control of a model steam loco what functions are desirable for a controller?

Is forward/reverse/stop and throttle sufficient to emulate how a real loco would be driven?

I'm not interested in 'in loco' sound as I believe under board or background speakers with an independent sound operator offer better solutions. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83931-sound-for-the-masses/page-3

Please don't mention DCC.

It is a pity that my grandfather who was a driver with LMS/BR died when i was 3 so I never had the chance to ask him how you drove an engine!.

 

My radio controller has forward/reverse/stop and throttle which works well for me. It also has 'inertia' which is not inertia but a variable timed acceleration/deceleration. I don't use it much but it is fun learning where to close the throttle on approach to the station so the loco stops with the tender right opposite the water tower. Just like a real driver I suppose?

 

My locos like most suffer from 'sticktion' so it takes more throttle to start than they can use if already moving. There are options for controlling start voltages etc in the receiver board but as we are talking about the controller.......

 

The controller can handle 12 'live' locomotives but it would be good if it would remember the current throttle setting for each loco. i suppose this is doable within the controller.

 

Maybe controlling more locos although at £25 for the kit version you might as well just buy another one.

 

There is an emergency stop button, switch it off and all the locos slow and stop.

 

You can switch off a loco remotely with certain versions of the loco receiver board.

 

It has a button for binding the loco to the controller. The loco will then only obey that loco position on that controller.

 

Maybe some form of loco low battery indicator. This would probably need two way comms with the loco board.

 

So what would be nice that I don't have?

 

1. remember and display throttle settings. no need to communicate with loco for this one

 

2. remind me when the loco battery is low,. Maybe best done in the loco receiver board?

[Ken Anderson]

I wonder how important a brake function would be for a modeller.

My guess is that with a full scale live loco that the loco will free wheel when the throttle is backed off.

With a model loco when the power to the motor is cut the motor and there is no free wheeling due to the type of gearing normally employed.

Of course with an electronic solution it should be easy to design an algorithm where the brake keeps power to the motor whilst slowly reducing it. Taking the brake off should retain the current speed/throttle setting.

By the way - is throttle the correct term for UK modellers or should it be regulator.

[Mike Storey]

We would say regulator Ken, but remember also the use of a reverser in a steam loco, which acts like a continuously variable gear. Thus, what you say above applies when trying to simulate same with an electric motor.

 

I had not realised that, by remote control, you meant battery operated rather than track power. I run live steam, 16mm/ft (1/19 scale) locos in the garden, using gas to heat the water in the boiler. Coal fired locos are available too, but out of my price range for now. They are worked either manually, by burning your fingers on the regulator in the open cab, or remotely using much the same controllers as for model aircraft, which controls servos in the cab. Once the boiler reaches optimum pressure (around 40 psi on most engines), you can start off with gas at full flow. When the boiler reaches optimum temperature (which you know by the safety valve starting to blow), you turn down the flow of gas, which in effect acts like a reverser and prevents the safety valve from blowing off continuously, giving you a longer run. This is the nearest I can ever get to driving the real thing now, which I used to do many moons ago on a preserved line. If your key desire from your hobby is that sensation, and you have a garden or yard, check it out. Not sure if you are in the UK or elsewhere, but look up the 16mmNG association web site, which will tell you a lot more. It has overseas members, such as me, and the US has a similar society. If you prefer main line to narrow gauge, then the Gauge 1 or Gauge 3 societies would be the ones to look up for live steam (or even Gauge 0 Guild, live steam is possible but rare in that scale).

[Beatty 139]

With G1 live steam most are either coal or Meths fired although a minorty except for Chinese imports are gas fired. Where the Meths/coal fired locos and some gas fired designs are used with conventional 'stephenson' drafting a blower is a most important control to matain air flow through the fire when the loco is not running and creating it's own blast.

 

If you take a full size industrial loco (the most basic you can get) the only cab controls you would have would be:

Regulator

Reverser

Cylinder Drain cocks

Loco power brake(steam)

Loco hand brake

Whistle

Vacuum ejector steam valve (if train brake fitted)

Train brake valve (on/lap/off)

On the firemans side

Ash pan damper to regulate air flow

Blower valve

Two injector steam valves & two water valves (to put water in the boiler) these are duplicated for safety as you should always have two ways of getting water into the boiler.

That's all and anything extra are just gizmos and gadgets added but all locos will have the above.

To move brakes, reverser and regulator, for a fireman blower, damper and injectors to boil it right down to basics.

[Ken Anderson]

Thanks guys.

So regulator, reverser and brake for my project.

[Andy Reichert]

If you want to simulate how a real loco would be driven, you will never do it in DC. Some years ago, I did invest in a DC controller that claimed to simulate just that - it had a loco and a "brake" lever and used back EMF. Whilst it did make braking more of an art form, acceleration was still only done by varying a resistor, which meant that, however gentle you were with the controller, acceleration was just that of an EMU with the cover of a steam engine plonked on top. IMHO You will not get that "real feel" (indoors anyway) outside of a simulator or down your dreaded route of 21st century electronics.

 

Stand by for incoming......

 

There was something wrong with that controller. Design or implementation.

 

Providing your mechanism actually could run slow enough for realistic starting, the acceleration rate can be held to a realistic value, if your track is long enough and you don't get bored waiting for it get up to speed!

 

However, realistic rate speed change is typically impossible on anything less than huge sized layouts. You would need as scale mile or so for most steam trains.