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Information on Mk2 micro buffets


Barry J
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To help a future project, can anyone help with any details regarding the Br Mk2d/e/f micro buffet conversions.

 

How large were the buffet counters?

were they sectioned off from the remainder of the coach?

any details on where they were used?

 

any information would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks to all

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To help a future project, can anyone help with any details regarding the Br Mk2d/e/f micro buffet conversions.

 

How large were the buffet counters?

were they sectioned off from the remainder of the coach?

any details on where they were used?

 

any information would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks to all

The counter was the length of a seating bay because the entrance was from where the toilet used to be. There was a narrow shelf by the windows on the other side of the coach as far as I remember, perhaps more like a bum rest. Between the counter and the next seating bay was a standard partition, the kind used between the smoking and non-smoking sections.

 

The Mk2c ones were used on Wat-Exe, the Highland line and Trans-Pennine. the Mk2d ones were used on some Paddington trains (including the Night Riveria from about 1988) and the Glasgow/Edinburgh to Aberdeen push-pulls. Both types were also used on selected cross-country trains.

 

I'm assuming you are talking about the TSOT micro-buffets (converted in 1981), not the RFB conversions from the early 1990s.

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If it helps, there were also Mk1 BSOs converted to micro buffet. Norwich-Birmingham was one route that used them.

 

The earlier ones were basically a kind of 'dock' for a catering trolley. Did that apply to all the micro buffets, even the later Mk2 aircon ones?

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Hi flood, I am indeed meaning the TSOT's.

 

I can vaguely recall the mk2d's used on internal Scottish services in the 1980's as basically having a seating bay removed & an open counter pretty much "plonked" in it's place; nothing like as extensive as the RFB's which I recall having a full enclosed small kitchen with a very small service hatch which I recall being on a diagonal facing the corridor into the adjacent coach. These could only have offered a basic hot & cold drinks service such as todays trollies?

 

I have a couple of RFB's & a TSOT in OO scale which have been converted externally, but i'm thinking about working on the interiors so would like to gather as much information as I can before starting work.

 

Going further back, the Scottish Region also converted some mk1 BSK's into micro buffets by using the first compartment as a buffet counter. These often had the first window either plated over or painted white to block out the buffet counter - I can't recall seeing any of these - too far back for my memories

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There are two photos on P.10 of the January 1980 Modern Railways of one of the BSOT conversions. Copyright may well prevent me from photographing them and posting them on here (I haven't got a scanner!).

 

What I have got is a photocopy of the B.R. diagram for the Mk2D TSOT and the buffet section is as below:

 

post-7112-12656486520755_thumb.jpg

 

It was only a counter on its own with 2/3rds to 3/4qtrs of the window behind blanked off from the bottom upwards. Plus, like I said before, there was a glass and metal frame partition between the buffet area and the first seating bay (exactly like the one in the centre of the coach). The trolley was basically shoved into the gap in the counter.

 

In addition, there was the black strip across the window opposite the buffet which had a red line along the top and bottom (when viewed from outside). In the middle was written either Buffet or BUFFET, I've seen both. This strip may well have been made of melamine, about an inch thick, and was probably off white on the inside face. The buffet writing was also present on the blanked window behind the counter (again, visible from only the outside) and the blanking section in front of the window (which I think was all the way from the floor) was again probably off white (this was the interior colour for the Mk2F stock). Come to think of it the bodyside below the window on the opposite side of the buffet and the toilet wall by the buffet may have been off white as well (not too sure about those).

 

Hope all this is of help.

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Excellent!

 

Many thanks for that Graham, I had a dim memory that they basically just had a stand alone counter & trolley.

 

I have dim memories of seeing these when I used to travel between Edinburgh & Aberdeen on mk2 aircon sets, so I guess they would also turn up on any Scotrail Express internal Edi/Gla/Abe/Inv combination.

 

I'm guessing that the mk2 brake & mk2c conversions used on the Far North line would be a very similar arrangement.

 

Shouldn't be too difficult to construct something representative out of pastic sheet.

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I have dim memories of seeing these when I used to travel between Edinburgh & Aberdeen on mk2 aircon sets, so I guess they would also turn up on any Scotrail Express internal Edi/Gla/Abe/Inv combination.

I'm guessing that the mk2 brake & mk2c conversions used on the Far North line would be a very similar arrangement.

The Mk2 brake conversions were probably the same, I'm not sure as I don't think I ever travelled in one. The Mk2Cs were exactly the same as the Mk2Ds.

The air-con conversions were only on the Mk2 rakes, the Mk3a stock from Glasgow to Edinburgh (and two return services to Aberdeen) only had a trolley service with no micro-buffet.

There were four Inverness Mk2C TSOTs for use on the Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness trains (consisting of pressure vent stock). These were 6510, 6514, 6518 and 6519. Craigentinny had four Mk2Cs for cross-country traffic (6506, 6508, 6523 and 6524), seven Mk2D TSOTs for the push-pull sets (6601, 6604, 6605, 6607, 6613, 6614 and 6619) and two Mk2Ds that were officially for ECML traffic (6608 and 6618). As there were five diagrammed TSOTs for the Inverness services there was also Mk2D TSOT 6603 based at Inverness but I have never seen a photo of a pressure vent rake with one air-con coach on these services (see post 11).

BTW, glad to be of help. Edited by Flood
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To help a future project, can anyone help with any details regarding the Br Mk2d/e/f micro buffet conversions.

 

How large were the buffet counters?

were they sectioned off from the remainder of the coach?

any details on where they were used?

 

any information would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks to all

Hi

 

There were also the Mk2d RMBTs nos 6652/6660/6661/6662/6665 converted from TSOTs around 1986 for the NW-SE cross country services. These had 2 x 8 seat bays removed and a microwave oven, boiler and buffet counter fitted. They carried Intercity livery had the red cantrail stripe extended over two windows and "InterCity Buffet" legend.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

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  • 1 month later...

 

 


... As there were five diagrammed TSOTs for the Inverness services there was also Mk2D TSOT 6603 based at Inverness but I have never seen a photo of a pressure vent rake with one air-con coach on these services.

After noticing a new batch of photos from Roddy on fotopic I have found this little gem and also here, which do indeed show an air-con TSOT on Inverness rakes. Edited by Flood
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Barry J, here are a few photo's I took when the TSOT first appeared. The first three (a couple are not brilliant) are of a Liverpool - Newcastle service that had at least two, maybe three of them in the formation.

post-7146-126917000536_thumb.jpg

post-7146-126917003149_thumb.jpg

post-7146-126917005481_thumb.jpg

 

The next are of a 2d conversion. The interior ones are of a coach in Paddington - Worcester/Hereford service.

post-7146-126917027807_thumb.jpg

post-7146-126917030029_thumb.jpg

post-7146-126917031579_thumb.jpg

 

Hope they are of help in your project.

 

Paul J.

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Many thanks Paul. Although the three TSOTs on Glenn's and my layout are not having any interior detailing (once you blank out 2/3rds of a air-con window you can't see anything anyway) any photos from this era, especially interior ones, are a rare prize.

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  • 5 years later...

Hi

 

There were also the Mk2d RMBTs nos 6652/6660/6661/6662/6665 converted from TSOTs around 1986 for the NW-SE cross country services. These had 2 x 8 seat bays removed and a microwave oven, boiler and buffet counter fitted. They carried Intercity livery had the red cantrail stripe extended over two windows and "InterCity Buffet" legend.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

On the subject of those RMBTs, how did the interior layout change from the TSO(T) diagram above? Were the new microwave and boiler placed in the second seating bay or in the ex-lavatory compartment?

 

I'm hoping to put a RMBT together as part of an InterCity cross-country rake for late 80s Brighton/Newhaven/Eastbourne services

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The Barrowmore Model Railway Group site has the Coaching Stock diagram book available for download, http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html. Vehicle diagram book 200, orange cover, about 1/4 way down the page.

 

Just for information here is a portion of that diagram (AN207)

 

post-7112-0-31904800-1434710616.jpg

 

Sorry, I don't know any more about the actual layout of the microwave etc.

 

There is an exterior view of 6661 on the '80s Rail website, http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p46631637/h17543eab#h17543eab. 6662 is the next photo along.

 

There is also a colour photo of 6660 from Steve Jones, http://www.railscans.co.uk/mk2ch.htm(incorrectly described as 6600)

Edited by Flood
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Hi all,

 

       Thought I'd just post a couple of shots of a TSOT that I'm nearly finished with - just needs a tidy up and weathering. It's an Airfix 2D with all sorts of work done on it, including EE frames, laserglaze, respray, Bachmann B4 bogies, EM wheelsets and the tumblehome has been grafted in from an old Hornby 2A to give a passable representation ( or at least a lot better than the Airfix ) tumblehome.

post-10371-0-17997700-1434720267_thumb.jpg

post-10371-0-12974900-1434720298_thumb.jpg

post-10371-0-48970000-1434720317_thumb.jpg

post-10371-0-03248600-1434720336_thumb.jpg

Graham, you may recognise the ScotRail blue strip 2E FO next to the TSOT - it was the one I had with me at DEMU.

 

cheers

 

Andy

 

 

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If it helps, there were also Mk1 BSOs converted to micro buffet. Norwich-Birmingham was one route that used them.

 

The earlier ones were basically a kind of 'dock' for a catering trolley. Did that apply to all the micro buffets, even the later Mk2 aircon ones?

 

Strange that Bachmann have not "as yet" added a MK1 BSO to their range, we can only hope it will appear eventually ! 

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Strange that Bachmann have not "as yet" added a MK1 BSO to their range, we can only hope it will appear eventually !

I doubt Bachmann will extend their range of Mk1s now. Hornby's Mk1 is excellent too though (and doesn't stand out amongst Bachmann ones in a rake save the roof colour) so maybe they'll do one

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It's a similar issue with Farish

 

I was considering modifying a Mark 1 BSK into BSO(T), but from memory the window arrangements are quite different and would require considerable modification

 

The alternative is modifying one Mark 2 BSO into BSO(T), but I can't remember ever seeing one at Glasgow Queen Street even though 9102 - 9107 appear to be in the WHL pool, and this will probably be my preferred option

This might also explain why many of the photos I have looked at have several BSO / BFK in their formation

Edited by mjkerr
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It's a similar issue with Farish

 

I was considering modifying a Mark 1 BSK into BSO(T), but from memory the window arrangements are quite different and would require considerable modification

 

The alternative is modifying one Mark 2 BSO into BSO(T), but I can't remember ever seeing one at Glasgow Queen Street even though 9102 - 9107 appear to be in the WHL pool, and this will probably be my preferred option

This might also explain why many of the photos I have looked at have several BSO / BFK in their formation

Yeah I also looked at the BSK / BSO conversation,  but as you mention, quite a few window differences/spacings etc.   The ScR used a number MK 1 BSO/T's, recall having mingin sanny's on one during a trip on the WH line a few years back !!

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Two points

 

1. Looking at photos some of the Mk2 BSO(T) conversions didn't get a red stripe (9102 as far as I can recall for one). Having a look on flickr you can certainly see some brake vehicles on West Highland services with a red stripe present.

 

2. A Mk1 BSO conversion is easier than most people think (apart from the fact it will always be a cut and shut)

Take a BSK and a BCK

 

Cut the centre section out of the BSK and keep:

post-7112-0-44419600-1434755403.jpg

 

Cut the BCK on the two yellow lines and keep the outside sections:

post-7112-0-92283000-1434755440.jpg

 

Join the outer sections of the BCK to the centre section of the BSK:

post-7112-0-99932700-1434755454.jpg

 

Add another window on the side shown between the left hand door and the passenger windows.

 

Ok it's a bit more difficult than that to ensure the 3rd to 4th window spacing is correct but modifying a BSK brake section would be far more difficult.

Edited by Flood
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2. A Mk1 BSO conversion is easier than most people think (apart from the fact it will always be a cut and shut)

Take a BSK and a BCK

That's a nightmare in N gauge

Looks like I will be modifying a Mark 2A BSO, that's much easier!

 

Just waiting for the Farish Mark 2F coaches now

Shortage of Mark 2A TSO isn't helping, but next release is only a few weeks away now (pre-order enough for 4 rakes including 4 for repainting into ScotRail livery)

Can't see how I can include the Mark 2C coaches

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2. A Mk1 BSO conversion is easier than most people think (apart from the fact it will always be a cut and shut)

Take a BSK and a BCK

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm that's food for thought ! it looks do-able in 00 , thanks for sharing the idea

 

Regards

Ken

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  • 8 months later...

Does anyone happen to know which Mk2C TSOs made it into NSE please? Can't seem to find many pictures other than one set from a chap who's made an O gauge one on this forum (and excellent it looks I may add!)

Andy I don't suppose you could post a photo of your entire converted Mk2 rake? I've seen shots of coaches individually but would love to see the whole effect. 

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Hi,

The TSOT's during the peak of West of Endland usage and in NSE are as follows;

 

6500

6501

6502

6503

6513

6517

6521

6522

6527

 

All of these were in the NWXX pool at the time and had the full NSE livery. There were variations with the shade of blue and positioning of the numbers/ logos.

 

I hope this helps.

Regards

 

Vin

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