Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[melmerby]

If someone isn't taking the pee it must be a case of..."Let's see if WebExpert spots the deliberate mistake...."  (Australian toolbox)

Hi Coach

 

I don't think is upside down, just fitted with the lid fastener facing the boiler, rather than outwards.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[Hattons Dave]

Hi all,

Apologies regarding the toolbox on 5819 - we've checked the other samples received and these are as they should be. I'll pop back down and redo the photos and also make sure this is relaid to the factory.

 

Lovely looking models but I was wondering why the decision was made to model the 48xx/14xx locos without the lift up cover over the auto gear on the buffer beam? I am not suggesting that this should actually be a working lift up cover but I have only ever seen one photo of the originals in service with this cover missing. Refer to any photo of the prototypes in service and this cover is apparent.

 

Locos regularly ran without these fitted in service however each 48xx/14xx is supplied with a pair of auto-gear covers to be fitted as part of the detailing back at your discretion.

Cheers,

Dave

[90rob]

Hi all,

 

Apologies regarding the toolbox on 5819 - we've checked the other samples received and these are as they should be. I'll pop back down and redo the photos and also make sure this is relaid to the factory.

 

 

 

 

 

...in the picture I have of 5819 the toolbox is set a little further back, with the irons for spare lamps forward of the toolbox rather than to the rear. Small point, easily corrected if it bothers anyone...

 

http://picclick.co.uk/Ex-GWR-14xx-Class-No-5819-seen-here-361692240143.html#&gid=1&pid=1

Edited January 6, 2017 by 90rob

[The Black Hat]

Dave is there any chance of photos of the chassis and mechanisms with the top off?

 

Just would be interested to see it minus the top to see how easy DCC sound is to fit.

[Hattons Dave]

Dave is there any chance of photos of the chassis and mechanisms with the top off?

 

Just would be interested to see it minus the top to see how easy DCC sound is to fit.

 

Hi,

 

No photos to hand I'm afraid however the instructions include a full piece on DCC sound fitting - we've included a pre-wired area in the bunker to fit a sugar cube speaker but there really isn't much room anywhere else as the boiler is mainly weighted alongside the location for the DCC decoder.

 

The details are on page 2 of the instruction manual which can be found Here.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Edited January 6, 2017 by Hatton's Dave

[gwrrob]

I think Andy Y has a photo with the coal load removed to see the wiring loom inside the bunker.

[The Black Hat]

Thanks... looking at it, does make it seem like it could be a bit tricky to install the decoder and speaker.

 

I am minded to try as I would get the settings that I am after, as think the price of sound as it comes for the engine is expensive. I can see why given it will need personal instalation by someone, but also think that the cloud of Olivias is cast over this, and the higher price (which I estimate is about £30-35 per engine) for what will be their instalation perhaps explains why its above what I would consider is reasonable for an engine of this size. I might have gone for it had the likelihood of a quality soundfile from someone like DC Kits/Steam Sounds, or Howes been installed, but instead find that having visited the site in Sheffield and the companies reputation makes me hesitate in placing the order.

 

Instead, I think I will be getting the engine and decoder separately. I might end up having the pay the same amount, but think that overall by doing this the quality of the finished product will be higher and given the steps that Hattons and DJM have gone to making such a good model, that in the end, the model itself deserves just that.

[Hattons Dave]

Thanks... looking at it, does make it seem like it could be a bit tricky to install the decoder and speaker.

 

I am minded to try as I would get the settings that I am after, as think the price of sound as it comes for the engine is expensive. I can see why given it will need personal instalation by someone, but also think that the cloud of Olivias is cast over this, and the higher price (which I estimate is about £30-35 per engine) for what will be their instalation perhaps explains why its above what I would consider is reasonable for an engine of this size. I might have gone for it had the likelihood of a quality soundfile from someone like DC Kits/Steam Sounds, or Howes been installed, but instead find that having visited the site in Sheffield and the companies reputation makes me hesitate in placing the order.

 

Instead, I think I will be getting the engine and decoder separately. I might end up having the pay the same amount, but think that overall by doing this the quality of the finished product will be higher and given the steps that Hattons and DJM have gone to making such a good model, that in the end, the model itself deserves just that.

 

Hi,

 

All of our sound fittings are carried out 'in house' however there is a fitting charge (£22) for this as can be seen on our listings. The sound project we use for the 14xx is provided by Olivia's however this is a bespoke sound project.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Edited January 6, 2017 by Hatton's Dave

[mswjr]

Locos regularly ran without these fitted in service however each 48xx/14xx is supplied with a pair of auto-gear covers to be fitted as part of the detailing back at your discretion.

 

 

 

Yep quite right,I have a 7 1/4 gauge one (48xx) built to works drawing and the early 48xx did not have the cover at all,infact the early sockets were different,and has already been said some had it some did not,watch titfield ,2 14xx locos ran on that both with the same number 1401,but one had the cover and one did not.

 

Locos regularly ran without these fitted in service however each 48xx/14xx is supplied with a pair of auto-gear covers to be fitted as part of the detailing back at your discretion.

[57xx]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the posts. Its great to see the first two locos spreading their wings.

 

A few updates for you on the remaining locos;

• The next four 14xx's to be released will be the following - these are now on-board ship and with us for the middle of February.
  • H1401 - Class 48xx 0-4-2 4825 in GWR Unlined green with Great Western lettering
  • H1408 - Class 58xx 0-4-2 5816 in BR Lined black with BRITISH RAILWAYS (Gill Sans)
  • H1410 - Class 58xx 0-4-2 5819 in BR Unlined black with early emblem
  • H1416 - Class 14xx 0-4-2 1409 in BR Unlined green with late crest
• We haven't had exact dates through for the remaining locos however they won't be too far behind the above four. As soon as I have the info I will post here.

A selection of models from the production run have been received and are available to view below

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

When I mailed you a year ago about the bunker steps on the "Great Western" liveried, you kindly replied back with how you came to the decision not to do a version without them. You stated there were two cab mouldings, one for the locos with top-feed and one for those without and so you would need to tool up for two extra cabs without bunker steps (with and without top-feed) which was not, understandably, economically viable. I notice on this pic that the front of the cab on 4825 has the square plates on the front (below the windows) where the top feed pipes would normally enter. Is this an assembly error on this version without top-feed or have you cut down to one moulding?

 

Also curious what the strange holes in the cab front behind the whistles are for?

 

thanks

[Ventnor]

Hi all,

 

Apologies regarding the toolbox on 5819 - we've checked the other samples received and these are as they should be. I'll pop back down and redo the photos and also make sure this is relaid to the factory.

 

 

Locos regularly ran without these fitted in service however each 48xx/14xx is supplied with a pair of auto-gear covers to be fitted as part of the detailing back at your discretion.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Thanks for the quick response Dave. I'm waiting for a couple of the BR green versions so not seen the detailing pack yet.

 

Cheers.

[MikeParkin65]

I think that's because only 2 versions have been released so far and probably not the most popular variants.  I hope so anyway because the lack of YouTube reviews had worried me a bit too.  I've found a few though

Great review! Not my era but that looks a very fine model. Particularly impressed with the smoothness of running, the overall finish, the look of 'weight' and the shade of green. Must be a contender for model of the year.

[tomparryharry]

Hi Dave,

 

When I mailed you a year ago about the bunker steps on the "Great Western" liveried, you kindly replied back with how you came to the decision not to do a version without them. You stated there were two cab mouldings, one for the locos with top-feed and one for those without and so you would need to tool up for two extra cabs without bunker steps (with and without top-feed) which was not, understandably, economically viable. I notice on this pic that the front of the cab on 4825 has the square plates on the front (below the windows) where the top feed pipes would normally enter. Is this an assembly error on this version without top-feed or have you cut down to one moulding?

 

Also curious what the strange holes in the cab front behind the whistles are for?

 

thanks

I think I can answer the question about the front cover plates. When locomotives were 'shopped', they very often had a different boiler, to that previously fitted. Some acquired top feed, whilst some (which had top feed) reverted back to backhead feed. These little plates covered the holes made to accept the top feed pipe work.

 

A lot of Great Western locomotives had modifications such as this. The most noticeable ones being the loss of the smaller cab light windows above the boilers on Churchward locomotives.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Ian

[Coppercap]

I think I can answer the question about the front cover plates. When locomotives were 'shopped', they very often had a different boiler, to that previously fitted. Some acquired top feed, whilst some (which had top feed) reverted back to backhead feed. These little plates covered the holes made to accept the top feed pipe work.

 

A lot of Great Western locomotives had modifications such as this. The most noticeable ones being the loss of the smaller cab light windows above the boilers on Churchward locomotives.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Ian

But as it represents the locomotive 'as built' (apart from cabside steps/handrails), and none of the boilers would have yet been fitted with top feed, the plates should surely not be there? If it HAD been shopped since construction, it would almost certainly have the GWR roundel, not Great Western on the tanksides anyway.

[57xx]

Thanks for the feedback Ian, but as Coppercap points out, the flaw in that description is that those holes were never there to cover up and not plated over on as-built locos as per this http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/alcester/gwr-mra468.jpg or this http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/bearley/gwrb777.jpg

 

As I have email from both of the Hatton's Daves stating that they tooled up two cabs, I am trying to clarify if this is a factory error or another thing they had to cut due to costs.

 

The three holes on the inboard side of each cab window of the model are another mystery entirely.

[tomparryharry]

Thanks for the feedback Ian, but as Coppercap points out, the flaw in that description is that those holes were never there to cover up and not plated over on as-built locos as per this http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/alcester/gwr-mra468.jpg or this http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/bearley/gwrb777.jpg

 

As I have email from both of the Hatton's Daves stating that they tooled up two cabs, I am trying to clarify if this is a factory error or another thing they had to cut due to costs.

 

The three holes on the inboard side of each cab window of the model are another mystery entirely.

Well, I know why they should be there. If you let people scan a locomotive (or anything else for that matter), then you might want to have someone who has a background history of the subject concerned.

 

If having these 2 plates is going to cause letters to the Times, then so be it. I'm quite confident that the new 48xx will look the part, especially as I'm awaiting one of the later models (4871). I'd guess that the holes in the front cabsheet relate to the taller whistle guard. But then, I haven't seen my model yet.

 

Ian.

[tomparryharry]

But as it represents the locomotive 'as built' (apart from cabside steps/handrails), and none of the boilers would have yet been fitted with top feed, the plates should surely not be there? If it HAD been shopped since construction, it would almost certainly have the GWR roundel, not Great Western on the tanksides anyway.

 

I can't comment on certain locomotives, but locomotives went into, and out of shops as required. These jobs are 'costed'. That is, a price is put on a job. If a 'job' is to change a boiler, then putting on side steps, and other modifications, are outside the remit of the 'job'. I would suggest that it might be prudent to model a particular locomotive, and stick just to the evidence to be garnered about that locomotive. It's sometimes easy to fall into a trap over what is, and what shouldn't, be on a particular locomotive, given a sometimes 30+ working life span. 

 

The GWR roundel stayed on quite a lot of locomotives way past the advent of the sunshine GWR motif. Some locomotives kept it until being repainted BR black. They didn't all get changed overnight.

 

Ian

[Coppercap]

I can't comment on certain locomotives, but locomotives went into, and out of shops as required. These jobs are 'costed'. That is, a price is put on a job. If a 'job' is to change a boiler, then putting on side steps, and other modifications, are outside the remit of the 'job'. I would suggest that it might be prudent to model a particular locomotive, and stick just to the evidence to be garnered about that locomotive. It's sometimes easy to fall into a trap over what is, and what shouldn't, be on a particular locomotive, given a sometimes 30+ working life span. 

 

The GWR roundel stayed on quite a lot of locomotives way past the advent of the sunshine GWR motif. Some locomotives kept it until being repainted BR black. They didn't all get changed overnight.

 

Ian

 

What I was trying to say was that while a 'Great Western' liveried 48xx might later have had cabside steps fitted - they were not introduced until 1936, I believe - so none of the Great Western' ones would have been completed with steps. It would have been unlikely to have them fitted on a special trip to works without including other work - this would no doubt have entailed a subsequent repaint into post-1934 'Roundel' livery. (This was what one of the earlier discussions was about). 

As top feed was, I think, introduced in 1944, any cab front with 'top feed plates' fitted would therefore post-date that, irrespective of whether the loco was then carrying a top feed-fitted boiler or not. It seems unlikely that a pre-1934 'Great Western' liveried 48xx would have remained in that livery until 1944 and during that time had it's boiler changed from an original type to one with top feed (with the new plates), then back to another without top feed (with plates still fitted).    

[tomparryharry]

What I was trying to say was that while a 'Great Western' liveried 48xx might later have had cabside steps fitted - they were not introduced until 1936, I believe - so none of the Great Western' ones would have been completed with steps. It would have been unlikely to have them fitted on a special trip to works without including other work - this would no doubt have entailed a subsequent repaint into post-1934 'Roundel' livery. (This was what one of the earlier discussions was about). 

As top feed was, I think, introduced in 1944, any cab front with 'top feed plates' fitted would therefore post-date that, irrespective of whether the loco was then carrying a top feed-fitted boiler or not. It seems unlikely that a pre-1934 'Great Western' liveried 48xx would have remained in that livery until 1944 and during that time had it's boiler changed from an original type to one with top feed (with the new plates), then back to another without top feed (with plates still fitted).    

 Yes, I see where you're coming from. I've got a photo of a large prairie at Caerphilly Works in 1958, still with it's GW sunshine motif. We all have a problem in that we model a 'snapshot' of time, coupled to a mostly imaginary location. I'm suggesting that a locomotive can have boiler swaps, without a repaint. I think it's called a 'sole & heel' job. 

 

Loco in, strip down. boiler out. The tanks stay on, IIRC. Wheels & motion out. New boiler in. Wheels & motion back in. Set valves & motion. Steam test. Weigh locomotive, and adjust springing. That's about 12-14 days, and back to service. Some stayed longer, some less. When Rufus Stevens was paint chargehand at Caerphilly, he was only allowed to paint locomotives that were in for painting as part of the job. No ticket, no repaint, just touching up. 

 

The Western was a penny pinching company, just like every other company that has ever existed. The idea that corporate image existed down to the second rank locomotives is an extended storyline, that gets extended by every generation. Sure, locomotives did get a repaint, but only absolutely when necessary. A boiler will be changed on the orders of someone like a boiler inspector, and his word is law. If a loco has had 3 boilers in about 12 years, then so be it.

 

As an aside, my locomotive model of interest is 4871 (later, 1471). It's a Llantrisant loco, and stayed there all it's life, until 1959 (hence to Exeter). All of my photos show the locomotive without the plates of interest, as it didn't receive a topfeed boiler during that time. However, it did receive welded portions to the lower tank sections.

 

As others have mentioned, it's best to garner evidence of your locomotive of interest, and go with that. I'm off to Brassmasters to get an order in for an ashpan.... That is, only when I've seen my model....

 

Ian

[OnTheBranchline]

No need to scratchbuild. David Geen produces a very straight forward kit.

 

Diagram L auto.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

I assume that that is brass

[OnTheBranchline]

Also, when were the whistle guards/shields fitted?

Edited January 8, 2017 by OnTheBranchline

[Great Western]

Please, Please, Please Hattons can we have a scaled up 14XX/58XX in O gauge !

[Coach bogie]

I assume that that is brass

Yes

[Neal Ball]

To all the followers of this great thread (Plus Hattons and DJM Dave of course!) - have you seen the poll asking for peoples views on which Toplight carriages we would like produced as an RTR model? 

 

If you have a moment, can you give us your views, thanks, Neal.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118689-gwr-toplights-poll/#ipboard_body 

[Jack]

Anyone know how firmly the plates are glued on?  I was thinking of getting one and renumbering it.