Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[Rising Standards]

My 1444 is running pretty well with a Digitrax DZ126IN set up with back EMF adjusted as per GWR Chris' recent guidance, top speed reduced and acceleration/deceleration inertia increased. As Chris said, I think there's potential for better performance still with more trial and error, particularly at very low speeds, but I think I'll probably just wait and upgrade it from the Digitrax to a Zimo or Lenz decoder next time I want a 6 pin decoder for a loco with a more conventional motor. If anyone wants to see it in action, I hope to have it running in and out of Craven Arms and District Model Railway Circle's 'Ashburton' at Church Stretton School on the 22nd of this month (yes, I did consider getting 1470 instead!).

 

That said, having experienced some difficulties with an Austerity whose bearing pickups have had good and bad days (seemingly more good than bad now; it was fine last time I had it in action), the 14XX hasn't transformed my opinion of this chassis style. At its best it seems there's nothing wrong with its performance, but it doesn't improve on the usual approach employed by other manufacturers of a sizeable 3 or 5 pole motor, wiper pickups and removable keeper plate for dropping the driving axles out either. Wiper pickup adjustment can be a pain, admittedly, but otherwise that style of chassis tends to be reliable, smooth running, quiet and easy to work on. I'd be pleased to see future DJM releases match the aesthetic quality of the locos produced so far to good mechanisms of that type.

[Ventnor]

After reading all of the negative posts regarding the running quality of these models, the fact that they can't be easily dismantled and the sloppy coupling rods it is with some trepidation that I await my two on their way from Hattons to Oz. I pretty much gave up worrying about the persistent running issues I had with 3 out of 4 of my Kernow O2s (even after sending 2 back for replacement), the 4th has never been a smooth and free runner either. They seem to have had similar issues to those described in this forum. I've since sold on 3 of them and I am also considering selling the 4th but I really do like O2 tanks!! I suppose that I should have been wary of the similar drive train being used on both models. I'll see how my 2 14XX's perform and if no better than the O2s and as bad as some of the models described in these posts I will probably avoid DJM produced locos in the future. It will be interesting to see how the Hornby H Class performs and I assume that they will be using a more traditional motor/gear set drive.

 

Granted there are a number of very positive reviews, but after reading such a large number of negative comments and after having similar issues with the O2s it is certainly difficult not to prejudice a particular manufacturer. I was going to buy a J94, I will no longer be doing so.........

[JSpencer]

There are several factors for stalling a motor going down hill.

 

Now portescap gear boxes used a two stage with bevel gear system, so this will never stall, you can also turn the wheels by had which was great for finding tight spots in a kit. No UK RTR make has ever used this system. These motors and boxed were expensive, about £40 in the 1990s, and they were coreless too and not for feedback controlers, but you could run them on anything else even old fashioned H&M with wiper resistance.

 

A lot of RTR makes did use pancake motors (Hornby ring fields, Lima, Mainline) with inline gear trains. Again you could turn the wheels by hand and again there was no risk of stalling. But I doubt anyone here will say they were great runners.

 

Moving over to worms and gears, Dublo and Wrenn used a very long soft worm. You could still force the wheels round by hand.  Dublo even had a screw to decrease negativity to get slower running, an odd idea as energy in must equal energy out, so it the model is not moving as fast, the rest must disappear as heat! Not sure I recommend that for smooth running....

There after, there is a long list. I can tell you that Bachmann and Dapol posed no problems to going down hill in the 1990s, everything since 2000 has never been tested on steep inclines however if the worm is soft enough and the motor big enough then stalling can be avoided using a worm and gear train.

DJM tank locos do not fly around at speed like other makes when on fall power, the model represents a realistic speed for the loco concerned. I have 1 well tank, 2 austerities, 2 O2s, all of these run fine on my fairly flat layout. The same too for the Sentinel. I did send one austerity back which refused to cure with running and finally went puff, and another which did cure itself.  I concluded that the small motor uses a high gear ratio to give us those realistic speeds. IMHO, high gear ratio + small motor could be the root cause of stalling going down sharp inclines. Oddly, in order to stall, the gear arrangement must also be free running since a stiff gear train will not transmit easily acceleration back to the motor. Smaller motors also make any tight spots more apparent as they have less power to overcome them. I feel this drive would probably be cured/not exhibit most issues with a bigger motor.

Edited April 11, 2017 by JSpencer

[coachmann]

I wonder how we buyers would go on without forums such as this where people share their experiences with model locos. In my view highlighting problems is far from being negative. Look at what £99.00 will buy in the model railway world! We expect Hornby and Bachmann locos to work, but I cannot fail to notice threads about problematic chassis where some other producers are concerned. 

 

I use DCC sound and so the idea of shoving a decoder down the smokebox at one end and a tiny sugarcube speaker down the coal bunker at the other and hoping for the best, which is what DJM expects us to do, is not my idea of sound engineering. I want locos I can take the lid off  then I can cut away to my heart's content the inside of the cab backsheet and bunker in order to squeeze in the largest speaker possible. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by coachmann

[JSpencer]

I wonder how we buyers would go on without forums such as this where people share their experiences with model locos. In my view highlighting problems is far from being negative. Look at what £99.00 will buy in the model railway world! We expect Hornby and Bachmann locos to work, but I cannot fail to notice threads about problematic chassis where some other producers are concerned. 

 

I use DCC sound and so the idea of shoving a decoder down the smokebox at one end and a tiny sugarcube speaker down the coal bunker at the other and hoping for the best, which is what DJM expects us to do, is not my idea of sound engineering. I want locos I can take the lid off  then I can cut away to my heart's content the inside of the cab backsheet and bunker in order to squeeze in the largest speaker possible. 

 

Currently I'm trying to add sound and crew to the much bigger Bachmann E4. Boy it was hard to get that cab apart and I bet I will have at least equal fun putting it all back again. Space is very tight and the sound chip will need to be hard wired.

The DJM austerity is much easier, I have posted pictures of that on the austerity thread. The motor per-se is get at able, and is held in place with 2 tiny screws (likewise the Well tank uses a clip). That said pick ups/bearings are practically sealed in where as Bachmann is a keeper plate away, although even here it can fun to get round the brake rodding and sand piping sometimes.

 

I can see why most DCC sound is diesel, aside from a greater range of different engine sounds, lighting is often already built in and there is plenty of room for chips and speakers. Steam engines are either tank locos packed solid weight, tender locos with chip housing in loco leaving no space for speaker (run wires to tender) but at least lights are easy to add, or you fit in the tender and then need to run additional wires for firebox and lights etc to the loco. You can add functional chips.... The ideal for me would be chip in loco, with pre-fitted wires to tender for tender pickups and speaker (tank locos need DJMs reserved spaces with Bachmann/Hornby get-at-able).

Perhaps for the 14XX, chip space should have been just in front of the cab with the smokebox full of weight but at least there was thought about such conversion.

 

I feel no manufacturer is perfect here except perhaps Oxfordrail/Rapido whom provide steam models pre-sound fitted as a choice.

Edited April 11, 2017 by JSpencer

[Les1952]

I wonder how we buyers would go on without forums such as this where people share their experiences with model locos. In my view highlighting problems is far from being negative. Look at what £99.00 will buy in the model railway world! We expect Hornby and Bachmann locos to work, but I cannot fail to notice threads about problematic chassis where some other producers are concerned. 

 

I use DCC sound and so the idea of shoving a decoder down the smokebox at one end and a tiny sugarcube speaker down the coal bunker at the other and hoping for the best, which is what DJM expects us to do, is not my idea of sound engineering. I want locos I can take the lid off  then I can cut away to my heart's content the inside of the cab backsheet and bunker in order to squeeze in the largest speaker possible. 

 

The sugarcube goes in the smokebox after the sound chip.  Not an issue.  As a bonus it also puts the sound between the cylinders and the chimney.....

 

Les

[PMP]

The sugarcube goes in the smokebox after the sound chip.  Not an issue.  As a bonus it also puts the sound between the cylinders and the chimney.....

 

Les

No it doesn't. The speaker goes in the bunker, there are wires in place for the speaker.

 

[phil-b259]

The sugarcube goes in the smokebox after the sound chip.  Not an issue.  As a bonus it also puts the sound between the cylinders and the chimney.....

 

Les

 

.... but also would reduce the weight over the driving wheels even more. This is one of the drawbcks from making it easy to fit a chip with no dismantling of the loco needed - if the chip were placed elsewhere (say the bunker) and no provision made for sound then the boiler barrel could be a solid lump of metal.

[JSpencer]

.... but also would reduce the weight over the driving wheels even more. This is one of the drawbcks from making it easy to fit a chip with no dismantling of the loco needed - if the chip were placed elsewhere (say the bunker) and no provision made for sound then the boiler barrel could be a solid lump of metal.

 

With hindsight, the feedback here is "please keep weight over the driving wheels".  Chip fitting through the smokebox door worked well on the Well tank where you need weight over the rear wheels. Just got by on the O2 but - nice try - but not really suitable for the 14XX.

[Chris Chewter]

Batch 3 of the 14xx appear to be now in stock. Just received notification that my pre-order has been processed,

[gwrrob]

Batch 3 of the 14xx appear to be now in stock. Just received notification that my pre-order has been processed,

If the new liveried Hornby Colletts come too my bank manager will be ringing me.

[Ian Hargrave]

If the new liveried Hornby Colletts come too my bank manager will be ringing me.

 

Guess what ? Just when you thought it was safe to come out of the toilet........ ...they have arrived !! Well the maroon ones have...

Edited April 12, 2017 by Ian Hargrave

[Captain Kernow]

the maroon ones have...

I didn't even realise they were doing them in maroon.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Captain Kernow

[Ian Hargrave]

I didn't even realise they were doing them in maroon.

 Of course.....maroon and horsehair...a heady combination .One for the conoisseur

Edited April 12, 2017 by Ian Hargrave

[tomparryharry]

So, my particular edition has arrived at Hattons. Can't wait. Having my layout packed away is a bit of a bu**er, so I guess I'll have to make up a test track, or a rolling road.

 

Excellent, or duff? Well, 4871 was a shed pet at Llantrisant, so we shall see.....

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

So, my particular edition has arrived at Hattons. Can't wait. Having my layout packed away is a bit of a bu**er, so I guess I'll have to make up a test track, or a rolling road.

 

Excellent, or duff? Well, 4871 was a shed pet at Llantrisant, so we shall see.....

 

Ian

 

 

Every photo of the Penygraig auto I have ever seen features this loco, and one of the Cowbridge branch, but the Cowbridge engine seems to have been 4821, or 1421 in my money.  Hope yours is a good'un, Tom...

[tomparryharry]

Every photo of the Penygraig auto I have ever seen features this loco, and one of the Cowbridge branch, but the Cowbridge engine seems to have been 4821, or 1421 in my money.  Hope yours is a good'un, Tom...

Your post has just prompted me to dig out my Cowbridge book. 1471 features in Cowbridge. Also, 'large metro' 3586. Pannier 9780 was a regular on the line also. I wouldn't mind seeing some evidence of 4821, as I've not seen that. Those autocoaches!

 

Ian

[Seanem44]

Ugh.  Hate seeing reviews of poor performance.  My wartime black weathered is on its way.  It's not so easy for me if I have issues with an item, living over in the U.S.  Finger crossed I have no issues with mine.

[adb968008]

On a steep gradient I have tons of locos the struggle with wheels attempting to rotate faster than the gear that spins them, it's not a DJ phenomenon at all, the best solution is traction tyres to hold the grip, but that's a big no no to UK modellers.

 

The only gripe I have with DJ is their light weight meaning they don't pull much compared to their fellow peers, but that applies to the O2, J94, 14xx and & Bodmin tanks equally...the Bachmann USA /Hornby Peckett really out pulls by comparison.

 

That said the finish, detail and one or two innovations done to their models really feels like they push the envelope along a bit.

Edited April 13, 2017 by adb968008

[autocoach]

Ugh.  Hate seeing reviews of poor performance.  My wartime black weathered is on its way.  It's not so easy for me if I have issues with an item, living over in the U.S.  Finger crossed I have no issues with mine.

My GWR 1420 arrived 2 weeks ago and runs OK.  I am using Hattons DCC decoder as 6 pin decoders require special order at my LHS here in the US. I haven't had much chance to run in on LHS large layout. My home layout is only 11 feet long. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by autocoach

[tender]

1474 (heavily weathered) arrived today. Was a bit apprehensive as I had problems with the O2's and from reading comments here regarding poor running but am pleased to report that out of the box it runs very well on DC (even up & down a 2% gradient) at slow speed on the test track. Once DCC fitted will give it a run on the main layout.

 

Must say i'm well chuffed       (I think SWMBO will be too as its her loco)

[gwrrob]

My 4805 seems to be a good 'un.

 

 

 

[Butler Henderson]

My 4805 seems to be a good 'un.

Seems to have wrong plates on it  then!

[gwrrob]

Seems to have wrong plates on it  then!

Sorry, I mean HK 05.

[Ian Hargrave]

Sorry, I mean HK 05.

 The weathering seems to be the best of the examples produced,so a good choice for Brent.Some appear to be suffering from a massed guano strike unfortunately....