Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl

[Castle]

PS: If you want to know what size lubricator a GWR loco has then look at both sides of the smokebox Locos with one large bulge on the driver’s side have the three glass lubricator. Those with a second smaller cover on the firemans side have the larger 5 glass version and the little bulge covers the valve and elbow for a third oil pipe that is on that side.

 

PPS: Hattons have sent 47XX take two - we wait with baited breath...

[7007GreatWestern]

I've marked up the below diagram to explain what 'Castle' is talking about:-

 

 

The two lubrication pipes are seen entering the smokebox top left. The top one (green) runs to the Regulator Valve which is partly hidden behind the petticoat. The regulator lever in the cab works the regulator valve in the smokebox by means of a rod that runs the entire length of the boiler. 

 

When the regulator is open 'saturated steam' (amber) flows from the Regulator Valve to the input side of the Superheater Header. Once inside the Superheater Header the saturated steam flows through the Superheater Elements where it is heated by the hot gasses in the flue tubes until it becomes 'superheated steam'. Once it has completed its journey through all the 'rows' of the Superheater the newly superheated steam exits towards the Steam Chest and Cylinders (black). At this point lubrication for the valves and pistons is added (blue).

 

Andy.

[Methuselah]

How many traders have had problems ? Two arrived in same condition today ....

 

30743043_10155895297579702_686574896205004800_n.jpg

 

30743043_10155895297579702_686574896205004800_n.jpg

 

 ...eeeesh......very sad. It looks as though a many of these issues are related to either the suitability of the packaging - or the carrier. It's a heavy loco with some delicate plastic parts. The packaging has to bear on strong areas without delicate detail - if not.......... There is also no doubt that some carriers are more prone to damage.

[Castle]

I've marked up the below diagram to explain what 'Castle' is talking about:-

 

P1010326-2.jpg

 

The two lubrication pipes are seen entering the smokebox top left. The top one (green) runs to the Regulator Valve which is partly hidden behind the petticoat. The regulator lever in the cab works the regulator valve in the smokebox by means of a rod that runs the entire length of the boiler. 

 

When the regulator is open 'saturated steam' (amber) flows from the Regulator Valve to the input side of the Superheater Header. Once inside the Superheater Header the saturated steam flows through the Superheater Elements where it is heated by the hot gasses in the flue tubes until it becomes 'superheated steam'. Once it has completed its journey through all the 'rows' of the Superheater the newly superheated steam exits towards the Steam Chest and Cylinders (black). At this point lubrication for the valves and pistons is added (blue).

 

Andy.

Hi Andy,

 

Wonderfully put! This is of course the Swindon No. 3 superheater system. The great thing about it is the ease of changing the elements. If you look at the nut and bridge on each element, that is all you have to do undo and take them off to remove and replace a leaking element. Genius! Where the blue lubrication pipe connects to the steam pipe, the fitting there contains an atomiser to get the oil into the steam. On 5 glass locomotives, the third pipe comes down the other side and connects into the corresponding pipe on the other side in a mirror image of the blue pipe arrangement.

 

Which loco is that?

 

Tag team steam loco explaining!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[robmcg]

We've been here before Rob haven't we ? There will always be those who have views opposed to yours,especially on an open forum like RMWeb.That's the nature of the human condition.We are all individuals and some perhaps are a little more contrary than others.

 

Your images have consistently brightened many a dreary morning for me for a good many years now and ,as others have said,please carry on and don't be deterred by one post and a few supporting icons.This is what you do and you are good at it.Most of us recognise this and appreciate your posts,I'm sure.If you feel a bit sore and sensitive,it's naturally understandable.Nobody likes a dash of cold water thrown their way.

 

Just chalk it up to experience.Your best response ? Carry on just the way you have been doing.Remember that many works of art have been fiercely condemned to the extent that they have on occasion been vandalised.They survive.So will you.

 

Yes Ian I appreciate your reply and many others, I am excessively sensitive after certain run-ins with people in other threads, and I find it exhausting to be in conflict, with the 44 years now with the wheelchair and two related periods of coma from stroke. Many will know this already and it's my great pleasure to recreate the days of steam and the atmosphere I knew when I was a teenager, photographing and travelling behind and on steam locomotives in the 60s. In 1974 at 23 yrs old after I came off a Triumph Daytona a speed (after several years of NOT getting injured in racing and road collisions with turning cars and other 'spills') and got multiple injuries which fill a book, the broken back wasn't discovered for 12 days, lucky to be alive.

 

Thus I enjoy making pictures and repairing 4706 was a great challenge thrill for me, it's hard enough just opening the box.

 

I also understand the Tony Wright school of thought about accuracy of models, but will keep my feelings about that to myself. In 2005 I spent 8 weeks in a hospital neurological ward with a 'bleed', for three weeks I didn't know the names of my family, nor where I lived, so I was under observation before finding an appropriate bed for an exit, but I began to remember things like password numbers and so on, but had only two visitors in 8 weeks, some error in contacting my family, a 'misunderstanding',  and it was interesting for me because most of the other people who shared the room of 6 beds had brain tumours and most died, so I watched the process quite close up.  Because I hadn't been expected to live long my paralysed body wasn't on an appropriate bed and I still have scars from the pressure-sores

 

This does rather alter one's perspective and I know my experience is not at all unusual.    I hope it explains why I cannot be bothered with what might be described as really serious modelling, nor, in particular, argument.

 

Anyway after that schpiel I have a Rails Hornby 45000 heavily weathered Black 5 on my diorama and it looks great, even though I'd rather photograph a different number, I have all 5 Irwell tomes on the subject of Black 5s but I doubt any with numbers like 45005 or even 45045 or something easy to edit-on had the right boiler and maker's plates etc for late-crest ...   now that is an enjoyable example of research, if one is in the mood, but if I get it wrong, ah well...    Chopin, Brahms, Bruck, The Dooby Brothers,  Van Morrison,      don't think they care,  maybe Neil Young or Rod Stewart would. 

 

Thanks for the messages, it means a lot to me. 

 

Both 47XXs are very fine models, with a few detail faults, and apart from the heavy boiler wreaking havoc when mis-handled, or whatever is is which has caused what must be a significant number of returns, it's all good. I hope Heljan can tell us just how many returns really are happening. But then, why would they, when they have said that so far they haven't heard of any, if I read the message right a couple of pages back?   

 

below, my desk

 

 

and a result, different Garratt though (it's almost 47XX at least it's Heljan)

 

 

and, REALLY pushing the boundaries of thread drift, me in 1974 a couple of months after the crash, got pneumonia at about three weeks in, with all ribs broken on one side and two on the other they had already set in a closed way before the broken back was discovered so it was very hard and a brave physiotherapist had to bash the phlegm out of me with some discomfort for all concerned, I was just under 5 stone at the lowest. Also had compound fractures in arm and leg and head injuries, ruptured intestines, spleen, big blood loss and head injuries but again it's not a unique thing at all, and I fit enough within a few years to do such as wheelchair racing and weightlifting and as a big challenge, restoring old Jaguar cars of all things.

 

 

I think I'll play Bruck's violin concerto 2 by Nigel Kennedy.     

[lofty1966]

 my comment was not meant as an attack personally on Rob.
I enjoy Robs pix when they are set into "lifelike" settings/art piccys.
What I obviously didn't articulate nor understand was why tart up what could have been a very revealing personal exposé of the model.
So apologies to Rob !
 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Andy Y
Inflammatory comments removed

[jjb1970]

If a locomotive is the wrong shape or wrong size, or colour or is just a bad model in whatever way then people can see what they're buying and make a decision, however regardless of any faults in terms of fidelity to prototype it should work and be free of defects when received. I think it is reasonable to accept that because of the amount of factory added fine detail parts on modern models that some might work their way loose in transit and I don't mind re-attaching them (provided they can be re-attached) however if things are actually broken, or if the damage ruins the finish of the model or it doesn't operate etc then my view is to just send it back and don't even try repairing it. Some may dismiss that as being un-modeller like and advocate that a real modeller will just fix it, but my own opinion is that if you buy something then it should arrive in good order (unless it is clearly advertised as being sold with faults/defects). If people do the job of managing defects then it doesn't give the manufacturers much motivation to improve their performance.

As to the scale of the problem, I do think the Internet amplifies negative experiences as those who have had a bad experience are more likely to write a review or post about their experiences than those who have had a good experience whilst I suspect the great majority of those who have experiences which are OK without being especially great or memorable will seldom bother. However, if you receive a model like Rob did then in some ways it is frankly irrelevant whether yours is the only one like that or a representative sample, you've received a piece of junk. A good retailer will take care of things and depending on how a manufacturer manages things they can either come out of it pretty well or very badly. In that respect I was disappointed to read the e-mail from Heljan posted by Andy Y earlier in this thread. I worked for the Danes for several years, still go to CPH and work/socialise with a lot of Danish people, they can be quite a straight talking people (though not as straight talking as the Dutch) but they're not ill mannered and as a rule are a good humoured bunch. I found the tone of the Heljan note to be rather dismissive and almost insulting in its assertion that they know nothing and never read Internet forums. If that is true then it's a rather stupid and inept policy, to ignore a ready resource to gauge the market, how your products are received and generally get a feel for whether you're doing OK. However I just don't see it as a credible assertion as few Dane's I've met have been stupid and they tend to be pretty sharp when it comes to commerce.

On the model, it seems to exist in that grey ground of being OK but not especially great. As the only RTR model of the class it is the only game in town and it is almost certainly much better than most of us could achieve if we built and painted one of the kits, but next to other models from Hornby and Bachmann it looks sub-par. If it ends up in bargain bins like the recent sell off of Heljan EM1/EM2's then it'll be worth a punt but as with those electric models I just don't consider it to be worth the SRP with normal new release discount. But that's just my opinion.

[jjb1970]

 

Almost unlimited in the worst cases...

 

And in the worst cases:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_El_Faro

[robmcg]

It's nice to know Ben Jones from BRM is joining Heljan UK. (see relevant thread) He is a top person, and in fact gave me a lot of encouragement back in old days when I wasn't very good at my craft. 

[Siberian Snooper]

Yes Ian I appreciate your reply and many others, I am excessively sensitive after certain run-ins with people in other threads, and I find it exhausting to be in conflict, with the 44 years now with the wheelchair and two related periods of coma from stroke. Many will know this already and it's my great pleasure to recreate the days of steam and the atmosphere I knew when I was a teenager, photographing and travelling behind and on steam locomotives in the 60s. In 1974 at 23 yrs old after I came off a Triumph Daytona a speed (after several years of NOT getting injured in racing and road collisions with turning cars and other 'spills') and got multiple injuries which fill a book, the broken back wasn't discovered for 12 days, lucky to be alive.

 

Thus I enjoy making pictures and repairing 4706 was a great challenge thrill for me, it's hard enough just opening the box.

 

I also understand the Tony Wright school of thought about accuracy of models, but will keep my feelings about that to myself. In 2005 I spent 8 weeks in a hospital neurological ward with a 'bleed', for three weeks I didn't know the names of my family, nor where I lived, so I was under observation before finding an appropriate bed for an exit, but I began to remember things like password numbers and so on, but had only two visitors in 8 weeks, some error in contacting my family, a 'misunderstanding',  and it was interesting for me because most of the other people who shared the room of 6 beds had brain tumours and most died, so I watched the process quite close up.  Because I hadn't been expected to live long my paralysed body wasn't on an appropriate bed and I still have scars from the pressure-sores

 

This does rather alter one's perspective and I know my experience is not at all unusual.    I hope it explains why I cannot be bothered with what might be described as really serious modelling, nor, in particular, argument.

 

Anyway after that schpiel I have a Rails Hornby 45000 heavily weathered Black 5 on my diorama and it looks great, even though I'd rather photograph a different number, I have all 5 Irwell tomes on the subject of Black 5s but I doubt any with numbers like 45005 or even 45045 or something easy to edit-on had the right boiler and maker's plates etc for late-crest ...   now that is an enjoyable example of research, if one is in the mood, but if I get it wrong, ah well...    Chopin, Brahms, Bruck, The Dooby Brothers,  Van Morrison,      don't think they care,  maybe Neil Young or Rod Stewart would. 

 

Thanks for the messages, it means a lot to me. 

 

Both 47XXs are very fine models, with a few detail faults, and apart from the heavy boiler wreaking havoc when mis-handled, or whatever is is which has caused what must be a significant number of returns, it's all good. I hope Heljan can tell us just how many returns really are happening. But then, why would they, when they have said that so far they haven't heard of any, if I read the message right a couple of pages back?   

 

below, my desk

 

Robbie_desk_2015_r1200a.jpg

 

and a result, different Garratt though (it's almost 47XX at least it's Heljan)

 

47969_Garratt_BR_shed_raising_steam_2ab_crop1_r1200.jpg

 

and, REALLY pushing the boundaries of thread drift, me in 1974 a couple of months after the crash, got pneumonia at about three weeks in, with all ribs broken on one side and two on the other they had already set in a closed way before the broken back was discovered so it was very hard and a brave physiotherapist had to bash the phlegm out of me with some discomfort for all concerned, I was just under 5 stone at the lowest. Also had compound fractures in arm and leg and head injuries, ruptured intestines, spleen, big blood loss and head injuries but again it's not a unique thing at all, and I fit enough within a few years to do such as wheelchair racing and weightlifting and as a big challenge, restoring old Jaguar cars of all things.

 

first_wheelie_74.JPG

 

I think I'll play Bruck's violin concerto 2 by Nigel Kennedy.   

 

Great job on the Garratt.

[Dunsignalling]

 ...eeeesh......very sad. It looks as though a many of these issues are related to either the suitability of the packaging - or the carrier. It's a heavy loco with some delicate plastic parts. The packaging has to bear on strong areas without delicate detail - if not.......... There is also no doubt that some carriers are more prone to damage.

Judging by the frequency with which these are coming to light it looks like the packaging isn't up to the job. If purely caused by rough delivery of individual items, the proportion of damaged examples should be more-or-less in line with that suffered by model locomotives in general.

 

It also seems only to be the BR black batch that has been affected - has anyone received a GWR green one similarly afflicted?

 

If that is the case, it suggests the damage is likely to have been caused collectively, involving perhaps a whole pallet-load. 

 

John

Edited April 19, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Invicta]

Could be an LMS van that hasn't been repainted yet.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Blown the photo up reveals it a Southern van judging by the roof line and planking. 

 

If we can excuse a bit more thread-drift, the Southern did build a number (IIRC a couple of hundred at least) of their standard van for LMS use during the war - although by that date (about 1942/3 I think), new-build LMS wagons ought to have been bauxite rather than grey. Bachmann have certainly released an LMS grey version at some point. Not sure any of the LMS Southern vans were vac-fitted though?

Edited April 19, 2018 by Invicta

[Bash St Plug]

Your pics are very Cuneoesque Rob! Don't forget to put a rat somewhere in the picture 

[tomparryharry]

If we can excuse a bit more thread-drift, the Southern did build a number (IIRC a couple of hundred at least) of their standard van for LMS use during the war - although by that date (about 1942/3 I think), new-build LMS wagons ought to have been bauxite rather than grey. Bachmann have certainly released an LMS grey version at some point. Not sure any of the LMS Southern vans were vac-fitted though?

 

My only 'observation' was that the 47xx was used on fitted freight work. As such, the train itself comprised stock which was almost exclusively vacuum brake fitted. On occasion, and by necessity, A non-fitted wagon would be removed deliberately to allow the booked train to run at the higher speed, or C headlamps. 

 

Please remember that the colouring scheme of a wagon allows operating staff to see at a glance that the correct 'style' of wagon, is in the correct diagram of train. Our grey wagon example puts the unfitted wagon quite close at the head of the train, effectively removing the vacuum braked portion to the rest of the train. A shunter will automatically think:- "What's that grey one doing there?"

 

Having removed my pedantic glasses, back to the topic!

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Methuselah]

The driving wheel spokes are not flared into the hubs either...  and as mentioned many times by others the superheater? bulge on the boiler-smokebox join area is too small and the lance on the smokebox front is too small and the proportions of the smokebox door and front is a bit wrong and the number plate is too small and the shed plate too big... 

 

but to me it looks absolutely lovely.   Regardless.  To be honest I find the abilities of many railway modellers, and I use the word 'modellers' quite loosely, to do little more than find fault in models quite off-putting

 

 

Can you not look at Rails photos for such things?  My editing is simply to make what is for me and I hope some others a picture of a model made to resemble somewhat the the kind of thing I might have seen many years ago, like this... which I know is not to every modeller's taste, but I enjoy making pictures.

 

4706_47XX_BR_country_3abcde_r1200.jpg

 

4706_47XX_portrait10_2abcdef_r1200.jpg

 

pictures edited

 

Will cease putting further edited pics on RMweb. 

 

Nice to see both types of photo. Your edits are excellent - Carry on.... 

[81C]

It's nice to know Ben Jones from BRM is joining Heljan UK. (see relevant thread) He is a top person, and in fact gave me a lot of encouragement back in old days when I wasn't very good at my craft. 

Forgive me for putting a funny on your post you mentioned Ben Jones the man who cut MDF with a water jet      

[Dunsignalling]

If we can excuse a bit more thread-drift, the Southern did build a number (IIRC a couple of hundred at least) of their standard van for LMS use during the war - although by that date (about 1942/3 I think), new-build LMS wagons ought to have been bauxite rather than grey. Bachmann have certainly released an LMS grey version at some point. Not sure any of the LMS Southern vans were vac-fitted though?

They were unfitted when built but, in common with other 1930s/40s vans built on a 10' wheelbase, most were updated with A.V.B. and a coat of new bauxite paint by BR during the 1950s. Incidentally, the Southern built a similar batch of their standard vans for the GWR during WW2.

 

John

Edited April 19, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[robmcg]

I cannot remember why I put a grey van in the photos, being aware of the brown/fitted thing, brain fade at the point where I arranged a line on the diorama, thinking 'this will look more interesting'.  I confess I had thought, without checking, that some grey vans were fitted.  I could easily remove the grey one from pics, like this.

 

Risk of too many 47XX pictures notwithstanding.

 

 

 

 

 

btw what are the differences in the headcodes as I have illustrated, two low down at centre and right, and top and bottom centre?  I thought either could be used on fitted freight but I don't know.

 

[tomparryharry]

Hi Rob. The 2 lamps you are viewing are 'C' class headlamps, denoting a fitted express freight. Exactly as you've depicted in your two earlier pictures.

 

You've caught it pretty much as it should be, even with the pep-pipe hanging over the firemans side.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[robmcg]

Judging by the frequency with which these are coming to light it looks like the packaging isn't up to the job. If purely caused by rough delivery of individual items, the proportion of damaged examples should be more-or-less in line with that suffered by model locomotives in general.

 

It also seems only to be the BR black batch that has been affected - has anyone received a GWR green one similarly afflicted?

 

If that is the case, it suggests the damage is likely to have been caused collectively, involving perhaps a whole pallet-load. 

 

John

 

The green 4704 I received had a weakened/fractured pony housing with detached axle on one side, and the Rails photo showed 4704 with deranged handrail front left side. 

 

I think the BR black 4706 may have received an even more serious pallet or container 'concussion' , on top of usual bashes and bangs, exacerbating a heavy boiler on plastic sub-frame design. 

 

It remains to be seen how many retailers return the models, and that'll probably be private to Heljan.

[Dunsignalling]

The green 4704 I received had a weakened/fractured pony housing with detached axle on one side, and the Rails photo showed 4704 with deranged handrail front left side. 

 

I think the BR black 4706 may have received an even more serious pallet or container 'concussion' , on top of usual bashes and bangs, exacerbating a heavy boiler on plastic sub-frame design. 

 

It remains to be seen how many retailers return the models, and that'll probably be private to Heljan.

I'm beginning to think that the sheer mass of the beast may be sufficient to overcome the ability of the packaging to hold it still within the box. 

 

John

Edited April 19, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Castle]

If we can excuse a bit more thread-drift, the Southern did build a number (IIRC a couple of hundred at least) of their standard van for LMS use during the war - although by that date (about 1942/3 I think), new-build LMS wagons ought to have been bauxite rather than grey. Bachmann have certainly released an LMS grey version at some point. Not sure any of the LMS Southern vans were vac-fitted though?

Hi All,

 

Two words that will end ‘greyvangate’ at a stroke:

 

Through Piped

 

Coat, Hat, gone...

 

In other news, this one is FAR less heavily mashed! A slight wibble on the smokebox lamp iron but I can live with that. It’s off to the Little Didcot home trainer and large radius point conundrum to see how it runs before the DCC fairy the weathering pixie and, as it’s going to become No. 4709, a creature that can only be described as a renumbering troll pay it a visit!

 

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

EDIT: just tried it and it’s really smooth right from the box. Credit where credit is due - good job Heljan. Shame about the quality control / dodgy shipping contractors / 300lb gorilla in the packing department (delete as applicable). I WANT it to be option 3. It’s just a great mental image! Using his dexterous feet to close up the plastic clam shell while nibbling on a banana... Awwwww!

Edited April 19, 2018 by Castle

[robmcg]

As originator of this thread Ryan I hope you won't mind, while you await delivery of your BR black 4706, that I put up this very mildly enhanced pic of this beautiful engine.

 

 

picture edited.

 

I love the look of the model, and this pic reminds me of old official photos done with plate cameras and slow shutter speeds.

 

cheers

 

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by robmcg

[Hroth]

If you're going to say "plate cameras and slow shutter speeds" then you need to retake that photo from a lower perspective, broadside on and in monochrome.  Oh and perhaps photoshop it into workshop grey.  And you do realise that even with a slow shutter speed, the deficiencies of the emulsion would prevent steam effects being captured?

 

Hehehehehehehe.....  

 

Nice photo btw!

 

HC&O

[rovex]

Well my replacement is on its way from Rails. I'd asked them to check it out before posting. So here's hoping. Will report back one received