Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl

[adb968008]

Ok I think I’ve been convinced.

[Ian Hargrave]

Ok I think I’ve been convinced.

And if you take a look at the Rails thread over on Model Shop Guide,you will see that after much gnashing of teeth and misgivings,I did too. Yes it's a"good " model that has as we all acknowledge excellent performance but my earlier criticism of it stands.It has flaws which may seem minor but unfortunately they are clearly displayed.The plates are under scale and they are an integral component in the overall appearance of a GW loco.Thus a set of Fox plates are on their way to remedy it.Secondly is the over bright,in your face lining that only relining or subtle weathering will tone down to make it acceptable to my taste.Thus the original cost rises for me so the question of 'value ' arises with the inevitable additional cost.....if one compares it,for the sake of argument,with the airsmoothed Hornby MN.which comes at a similar price point.

 

Stil,we are where we are,mustn't grumble,made a calculated choice,so now to get on with the project .This is the representation of "The Royal Duchy" in 1958 ,train reporting number 147 with emblem etched headboard,loco number4704,as photographed by Dick Riley on its way west out of Paddington.Look at Ray's video to get the picture (thanks,Ray aka Silver Sidelines)

 

I have just looked at both Rob and Ray's images and they are pretty near spot on to what comes out of the box btw.

[robmcg]

A comparison of 4707 in GWR green and 4709 in lined BR green may be seen here.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82970-hornbys-best-ever-models/page-97&do=findComment&comment=3270704

 

cheers

[21C123]

Evening

Mine arrived in NZ today, no problems except I’ve a part loose that I can’t identify. Any idea ?

 

Roger

[coachmann]

Evening

Mine arrived in NZ today, no problems except I’ve a part loose that I can’t identify. Any idea ?

Looks like an injector overflow pipe from under one of the cab steps. It glues under the bottom step with the other end going into a pip on the chassis, however, do not glue that end. I made new ones from brass rod.

Edited August 20, 2018 by coachmann

[Dunsignalling]

Loose in mine, there's a small, black L-shaped bit with a squiggly tip on the longer end, any ideas what it is or where it goes.

 

The rear coupling and brake pipe are, I think, deliberately not glued in to simplify fitting ones choice of auto-coupler;. thanks Heljan.

 

John

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... it's a "good " model that has as we all acknowledge excellent performance but my earlier criticism of it stands.It has flaws which may seem minor but unfortunately they are clearly displayed...

I feel there is an effect here which began to kick in significantly for me when RTR OO models began to improve in appearance and mechanism performance as Chinese production got going in earnest. The first model that really annoyed me was Hornby's Brush 2 (class 30). So much that was so good, critically marred by a very clear error in appearance. (I think I can fix it after a decade+ of thinking about it, just need to find a Lima skinhead body to cannibalise as the likely route to Pedvana.)

 

I did an internal reset on myself on this aspect following the Brush 2. Errors will arise, and the better the model is overall, the more apparent they are going to be: thrown into sharp relief by detracting from the overall appearance and performance. If the model overall is better than I can do by my own efforts then live with it and fix the most offensive as opportunity and ingenuity provide. The Stirling single model isn't perfect, and I am giving it thought. I cannot be annoyed with it as it starts out about an order of magnitude better than I could ever achieve.

[Ian Hargrave]

I feel there is an effect here which began to kick in significantly for me when RTR OO models began to improve in appearance and mechanism performance as Chinese production got going in earnest. The first model that really annoyed me was Hornby's Brush 2 (class 30). So much that was so good, critically marred by a very clear error in appearance. (I think I can fix it after a decade+ of thinking about it, just need to find a Lima skinhead body to cannibalise as the likely route to Pedvana.)

 

I did an internal reset on myself on this aspect following the Brush 2. Errors will arise, and the better the model is overall, the more apparent they are going to be: thrown into sharp relief by detracting from the overall appearance and performance. If the model overall is better than I can do by my own efforts then live with it and fix the most offensive as opportunity and ingenuity provide. The Stirling single model isn't perfect, and I am giving it thought. I cannot be annoyed with it as it starts out about an order of magnitude better than I could ever achieve.

i

 

It is indeed a question of 'biting the bullet' or put another way,cooking the curate's egg and primarily one of personal perception.All down to one's own modelling DNA,I suppose and as you say,performing a reset.A job in hand and a challenge.

[gwrrob]

Here's one earning its keep.

 

 

 

 

[coachmann]

To me, it's simple. We have had years of Hornby and Bachmann producing generally sturdy models with a basic 'two-crews out and off comes the body' design.

 

Oxford Rail came up with a novel chassis in its Dean Goods, but some batches turned out to be poor runners.

 

The DJM 14XX with a geared chassis, floppy cosmetic con rods and a basket-case design in which to install to DCC sound was a complete break away from simplicity.

 

The Heljan 47XX was yet another break away from simplicity with its remove cab, remove boiler but the running plate is attached to the chassis!  Put together like a kit using Loctite, it is small wonder the detail falls off during handling.

 

My bottom line :-   I will always buy Hornby. I will buy Bachmann if it is DCC sound friendly.  I am now dubious about Heljan. I wont touch DJM with a barge-pole.

[Butler Henderson]

To me, it's simple. We have had years of Hornby and Bachmann producing generally sturdy models with a basic 'two-crews out and off comes the body' design.

If only in the case of too many Hornby models which persist with the single screw and slot tab arrangement, fine for a single piece lump of plastic but not so good with one with lots of fragile bits. Agree that DJM are trying to be too clever and need to go back to basics.

[tomparryharry]

Here's one earning its keep.

 

 

DSCN4239 (2).JPG

 

 

DSCN4240 (2).JPG

Hello Robin,

 

Just a very minor observation.....You'd normally find a 28xx on that job. Being a 'grown up' version of the 43xx, the 47xx found its way onto the big trunk freight jobs, such as express freight, vans, etc.  The humble 28xx found its way onto coal, freight, that sort of thing. 

 

I'm much liking Brent, by the way!

 

Ian.

[gwrrob]

Hello Robin,

 

Just a very minor observation.....You'd normally find a 28xx on that job. Being a 'grown up' version of the 43xx, the 47xx found its way onto the big trunk freight jobs, such as express freight, vans, etc.  The humble 28xx found its way onto coal, freight, that sort of thing. 

 

I'm much liking Brent, by the way!

 

Ian.

 

Agreed but in my defence I don't own a 28xx. The 47xx isn't mine either but the owner wanted me to give it a run and I rostered what I had to hand.

[Trev520]

I have just got my 4705 and generally like the look of it. It runs ok but it does seem to slip on my incline, I do have quite sharp inclines but most of my locos cope with 6 coaches without slipping. The 47xx struggles and even seems to struggle light engine. Most of the reviews suggest it has good haulage capacity -certainly has weight. Just wondered if anyone else had similar issues or ideas? I did wonder if the tender drawbar might be causing the chassis to not be sitting on its drivers fully.

[tomparryharry]

Agreed but in my defence I don't own a 28xx. The 47xx isn't mine either but the owner wanted me to give it a run and I rostered what I had to hand.

 

Aaah! The shedmaster turning out what he had left!

[robmcg]

A couple of 'new' purchases, 4705 from Hattons, 4707from TMC,  both well packed, both required re-assembly of front pony truck. 

 

4705 has no front brake hose, ski-jump front running plate. had loose front axle, loose injector pipe, another injector pipe detached found in packet.

 

4707 had loose front axle.

 

Both run well, 4707 particularly good.

 

 

 

a bit of a lottery.  photos un-retouched.

Edited August 21, 2018 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

Funny that,Rob. Because my BR 47XX is to be renumbered in any case and Rails being out of stock on 4705,I have the "newbuild" 4709 .No such problems here,thankfully.....no bits in box,no ski jump.

[Ian Hargrave]

I have just got my 4705 and generally like the look of it. It runs ok but it does seem to slip on my incline, I do have quite sharp inclines but most of my locos cope with 6 coaches without slipping. The 47xx struggles and even seems to struggle light engine. Most of the reviews suggest it has good haulage capacity -certainly has weight. Just wondered if anyone else had similar issues or ideas? I did wonder if the tender drawbar might be causing the chassis to not be sitting on its drivers fully.

 Strongly advise returning for replacement.First I've heard of that.One good thing about this model appears to be its running qualities....which I can vouch for.Not what you've paid ( a lot ) for.

[JSpencer]

I have just got my 4705 and generally like the look of it. It runs ok but it does seem to slip on my incline, I do have quite sharp inclines but most of my locos cope with 6 coaches without slipping. The 47xx struggles and even seems to struggle light engine. Most of the reviews suggest it has good haulage capacity -certainly has weight. Just wondered if anyone else had similar issues or ideas? I did wonder if the tender drawbar might be causing the chassis to not be sitting on its drivers fully.

 

If the transition from level to incline is too sharp, the loco will sit on the drawbar and the drivers lifted clear. This will be compounded if there are curves too.

[Silver Sidelines]

As reported previously my 47xx goes up and down and round and about- no fuss - 1 in 60 gradients, 3ft radius curves.

 

If the transition from level to incline is too sharp, the loco will sit on the drawbar and the drivers lifted clear. This will be compounded if there are curves too.

 

I have just examined the engine and there is lots of up and down movement available between engine and tender without stressing the drawbar.

 

I did notice that when the model was first unboxed that there was wheel slip - which has disappeared with use.

 

Ray

[Trev1073]

As reported previously my 47xx goes up and down and round and about- no fuss - 1 in 60 gradients, 3ft radius curves.

 

 

I have just examined the engine and there is lots of up and down movement available between engine and tender without stressing the drawbar.

 

I did notice that when the model was first unboxed that there was wheel slip - which has disappeared with use.

 

Ray

 

 

If the transition from level to incline is too sharp, the loco will sit on the drawbar and the drivers lifted clear. This will be compounded if there are curves too.

 

 

 Strongly advise returning for replacement.First I've heard of that.One good thing about this model appears to be its running qualities....which I can vouch for.Not what you've paid ( a lot ) for.

Thanks for the comments. The problem does not seem to be on the transition so I am not sure if there is a "rigidity" problem but will check later. I must admit I was wondering if it might improve with running - I did give it some time on a rolling road but the temptation to hang a train on the back was difficult to resist, I will give it a longer light engine run in before considering return. Once again thanks for suggestions and comments.

 

Trev

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks for the comments. The problem does not seem to be on the transition so I am not sure if there is a "rigidity" problem but will check later. I must admit I was wondering if it might improve with running - I did give it some time on a rolling road but the temptation to hang a train on the back was difficult to resist, I will give it a longer light engine run in before considering return. Once again thanks for suggestions and comments.

 

Trev

Please post again to let us know progress....or otherwise.It's helpful to share problems.

[JSpencer]

Thanks for the comments. The problem does not seem to be on the transition so I am not sure if there is a "rigidity" problem but will check later. I must admit I was wondering if it might improve with running - I did give it some time on a rolling road but the temptation to hang a train on the back was difficult to resist, I will give it a longer light engine run in before considering return. Once again thanks for suggestions and comments.

 

Trev

 

There are not many things that will cause the wheels to slip. Either something is lifting the loco (pony truck upside down, drawbar is bent etc..) or the wheel rims are covered in oil or grease.

[ThePipersSon]

It could be the pony-truck axle not being located correctly.  On my first one, the pony-truck was lifting the driving wheels clear off the rails.

 

Tom

[robmcg]

Funny that,Rob. Because my BR 47XX is to be renumbered in any case and Rails being out of stock on 4705,I have the "newbuild" 4709 .No such problems here,thankfully.....no bits in box,no ski jump.

 

Thanks Ian, Hattons have offered replacement, I have asked if a refund or credit is an option, I hadn't realised 4705 was sold out at Rails, though. Hattons have more than 10.

 

As to the pony truck 

 

Can I ask please, does the front pony truck have a spring on it at all, if not then it sounds like its just been badly moulded when it was made.

 

The only other option I can think of is to replace the front pony with either a self made pony truck or a similar pony truck suitable for a 47xx from a kit provider

 

No spring, an odd design though prone to axle slipping out when in packaging shroud , lovely small flanges on the wheels, it has a air bit of play and ability to sit quite loosely relative to the body.

Edited August 21, 2018 by robmcg