Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl

[Martin_R]

My 4705 arrived complete with broken cab steps both sides and all associated pipe work bits loose in the packaging. The pony wheels were detached and jammed under the footplate which was also slightly distorted. These are all sortable with a little work but the worst find was the tender drawbar was snapped at the sort setting hole!?!

 

Why didn’t I return it? Sadly past experiences with Heljan tells me if a Heljan loco is largely intact and will actually run smoothly then you could have a ‘good’ one......unfortunately the c**p design of packaging is the real problem here.

 

Update - Tender drawbar fixed using some nickel silver connecting rod parts from my bits box, miles better and stronger than the plastic one. The cab steps and pipe work are next when I finish making up some brass pipes etc as replacements which will also add some strength to the steps.

[Harlequin]

I just went and looked at my 4705 again. Shouldn't have...

 

One of the crosshead guide bars is missing. If I've got it at all it's either in the packaging or caught up inside the loco body somewhere.

 

Appallingly bad manufacturing and quality control from Heljan. These things are supposed to be RTR, not kits!

 

[7007GreatWestern]

Here's some real modelling for a change, but i am not going to plaster this thread with it so don't panick.  Due to a case of boredom, I decided to paint one of my 47XX's in BR lined out green as 4706 yesterday. The engraved plates arrived today just 10 minuted before being affixed to the loco.  Just in time!  I will have to fit sound next. My black one has 'Hall' sound but I fancy something else in this one....

WEB 47XX 28.jpg

WEB 47XX 30.jpg

 

Which just goes to show how stunning this model could have looked in lined green if it had a 'sympathetic' paint job at the factory! Why do the manufacturers all seem to find it so hard to produce a realistic rendition of lined green? This is one of the main reasons I decided to model the early 1950s since black (be it lined or unlined) is one colour they all seem to be able to get right!

Edited August 8, 2018 by 7007GreatWestern

[adb968008]

Two observations I noted on Coachmans model..

1. The front coupling pocket still looks to be in the praying to space position

2. Is it me or are the slide bars getting wider the closer they reach the cylinders ?

 

But oh dear Coachman...your vac pipe is distinctly LMS...it should be angled to the side :-)

 

Lovely paint Job !

Edited August 8, 2018 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Two observations I noted on Coachmans model..

 

1. The front coupling pocket still looks to be in the praying to space position          It is, which is why I have left the front coupling off.  No marks to Heljan.

2. Is it me or are the slide bars getting wider the closer they reach the cylinders ? Well spotted. The bottom slidebar is unattached!  Well it was. Heljan "quality" again.

But oh dear Coachman...your vac pipe is distinctly LMS...it should be angled to the side :-)  Yup. Now remedied, but again thanks for pointing it out.

Lovely paint Job ! Ta.

Put right and re-photographed, this time in sunlight..... 

WEB 47XX 31.jpg

WEB 47XX 32.jpg

Looks much better than the Wrenn finish of the RTR.

I’ve got to admit I am impressed with the coupling rods, as rtr goes I don’t think I’ve seen much better. How are they fastened (they don’t look like the usual bolts).

[TerrySVR]

I may have missed this but what's best way to remove plates prior to fitting newnumber plates?

[TerrySVR]

Thanks I wish I had your painting skills excellent pics.

 

Terry

[9402 Fredrick]

It seems that QC has become a thing of the past.

 

I worked in a biscuit factory for 5 months seasonal back in 2002 and if there was anything slightly wrong in the packaging or boxes not properly stacked, the entire batch was held until all the issues had been dealt with and cleared by the QC checker.

 

Apologies for the minor digression BUT if that has to be the case for food, why can it not be so for anything else including models.

 

If the people who do the QC checks cannot do it properly the companies need to hire those who can.

It's also due to how less paitent people are these days if they really want someghing, so QC sometimea gets very skimmed to meet the speed the people expect, it's sadly why fast food is also how it is, the speed of when it's delivered is now more important than the actual quality these days.

[tomparryharry]

It seems that QC has become a thing of the past.

 

I worked in a biscuit factory for 5 months seasonal back in 2002 and if there was anything slightly wrong in the packaging or boxes not properly stacked, the entire batch was held until all the issues had been dealt with and cleared by the QC checker.

 

Apologies for the minor digression BUT if that has to be the case for food, why can it not be so for anything else including models.

 

If the people who do the QC checks cannot do it properly the companies need to hire those who can.

 

QC is all important where foodstuffs/goods are concerned. It can cost millions to get any foodchain problems sorted. If you see a high-speed food process line, one of the more common instruments is, strangely enough, a metal detector.  

Edited August 8, 2018 by tomparryharry

[robmcg]

I just went and looked at my 4705 again. Shouldn't have...

 

One of the crosshead guide bars is missing. If I've got it at all it's either in the packaging or caught up inside the loco body somewhere.

 

Appallingly bad manufacturing and quality control from Heljan. These things are supposed to be RTR, not kits!

 

 

This morning here in NZ it is bright sunny and cool at about 6C, lovely day, and I thought I might buy a 4705 to go with my already-purchased 4709 (en route from UK) , but now I'm wondering...

 

Both my GW roundel 4704 and BR black 4706  models arrived from the UK damaged, the BR black in several pieces around the front, completely detached front footplate,  but were repairable.

 

I have asked the UK retailer to pack 4709 with the model in the centre of padding inside a carton. Most Hornby and Bachmann models arrive here undamaged after about a week of priority airmail handling and local courier (pretty good), although I had a bad run earlier this year.  So to buy another 47XX is almost like asking for trouble?

 

Never mind, I used to race British bikes in the '70s and these are only models....damn nice ones actually when in one piece!  The things I would return the model for would be poor running or badly bent running plate.

 

btw lovely work Coachman

[Clearwater]

It seems that QC has become a thing of the past.

 

I worked in a biscuit factory for 5 months seasonal back in 2002 and if there was anything slightly wrong in the packaging or boxes not properly stacked, the entire batch was held until all the issues had been dealt with and cleared by the QC checker.

 

Apologies for the minor digression BUT if that has to be the case for food, why can it not be so for anything else including models.

 

If the people who do the QC checks cannot do it properly the companies need to hire those who can.

At the risk of stating the obvious, if a front plate of a model is slightly bent, no-one falls ill, dies or chokes on it. Where there's risk of death or injury to the user, the QC is inevitably going to be higher and more stringent. Aside from rep risk, check the financial penalties for such failings. Multi-million pound fines for negligence. Much as we would like to think our toys are life and death, they're not. Hence the QC is lower as it has a lower threshold to pass.

[tomparryharry]

At the risk of stating the obvious, if a front plate of a model is slightly bent, no-one falls ill, dies or chokes on it. Where there's risk of death or injury to the user, the QC is inevitably going to be higher and more stringent. Aside from rep risk, check the financial penalties for such failings. Multi-million pound fines for negligence. Much as we would like to think our toys are life and death, they're not. Hence the QC is lower as it has a lower threshold to pass.

 

There would some who would very clearly disagree!

 

Wrong rivet? Harrumph, dontcha know! End of the world! Letter to the Times! End of Empire! When I was a lad...... Mutter, Mutter, Mutter..... And don't get me started on the colour.....!

[locoholic]

At the risk of stating the obvious, if a front plate of a model is slightly bent, no-one falls ill, dies or chokes on it. Where there's risk of death or injury to the user, the QC is inevitably going to be higher and more stringent. Aside from rep risk, check the financial penalties for such failings. Multi-million pound fines for negligence. Much as we would like to think our toys are life and death, they're not. Hence the QC is lower as it has a lower threshold to pass.

Considering the cost of these models, I think your somewhat cavalier attitude is wrong.

[adb968008]

QC would require a knowledgable expert on the UK prototype and design to be sitting at the end of the production line in China.

 

Everytime I goto Asia it’s a business trip approaching £5000 for a week, inc airfares, travel, hotels etc.

If someone does that journey every month to check on that production line, that’s £60k a year in expenses, plus salary, benefits etc.

(I’m not saying why my costs is but it’s not affordable for a model).

 

That might be as much add another £5 a loco in costs in a high output over a year.

But if your only getting say 500 returns in a year, and let’s say a unit cost of £30-50 a piece at factory cost then it’s only £25k spent..

It’s cheaper to not QA and make extras, than hire someone to scrutinise the production line at source. Plus you also get a supply of spare parts from the boneyard of reject models.

Edited August 8, 2018 by adb968008

[Clearwater]

Considering the cost of these models, I think your somewhat cavalier attitude is wrong.

Ha! I'm afraid you're a bit misguided. Yes QC is important, don't get me wrong, but to compare it to food hygiene standards is ludicrous. If you think QC is of too low a quality, don't buy. If the models don't sell, the manufacturer will get the message. Simples.

[Craigw]

It seems that QC has become a thing of the past.

 

I worked in a biscuit factory for 5 months seasonal back in 2002 and if there was anything slightly wrong in the packaging or boxes not properly stacked, the entire batch was held until all the issues had been dealt with and cleared by the QC checker.

 

Apologies for the minor digression BUT if that has to be the case for food, why can it not be so for anything else including models.

 

If the people who do the QC checks cannot do it properly the companies need to hire those who can.

 

Quality control is the wrong answer to the question. They should be building quality into the system.

 

The people doing the assembly should be properly trained and should be rejecting anything they get that is sub standard.

 

The fact that process does not happen is the big problem in the current manufacturing process in the factory.

 

Regards,

 

Craig w

[Horsetan]

Quality control is the wrong answer to the question. They should be building quality into the system.

 

The people doing the assembly should be properly trained and should be rejecting anything they get that is sub standard.

 

The fact that process does not happen is the big problem in the current manufacturing process in the factory....

Maybe Heljan aren't able to commission the same Chinese factories as their rivals, so have to settle for lesser ones?

[Harlequin]

It would not be difficult to check some of the really basic failings in this product during production and prevent bad examples from leaving the factory. No expert knowledge would be needed, just a specification - either written, by example or both.

 

The problems with these models are not life or death issues. The issue is simply that the manufacturer is repeatedly failing to supply a product of merchantable quality. Within that context the complaints are valid.

 

The manufacturer will surely suffer reputational damage and degrade their commercial future if they continue to supply products that people don't like but that's a long term effect. Refusing to buy from them in the future doesn't solve the immediate problem of not getting the quality of product we should expect now or the inconvenience of trying to fix, exchange or return faulty items.

 

I hope someone from Heljan is reading this thread.

 

And I hope that the magazines that reviewed the 47XXs are taking note and will publish some qualification of their reviews in light of people's experiences.

[cctransuk]

 

And I hope that the magazines that reviewed the 47XXs are taking note and will publish some qualification of their reviews in light of people's experiences.

 

Those will be the magazines that don't / won't in future be carrying Heljan advertisements, I presume?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

This model is full of tiny plastic parts held on by super glue. While painting and lining out my 47XX, parts were un-attaching all over the shop. This never happens with a Hornby or Bachmann GWR loco. Why expect assembly workers to attach three tiny folded plastic lamp brackets with super-glue to the base of the Tender tank when there is a straightforward method involving one component?  It is mass-production gone bonkers. I for one would be looking to minimize components to simplify and speed up assembly and produce a stronger reliable model. 

 

Did not Heljan start out as a producer of plastic kits?

 

Perhaps the policy of providing as many parts as possible for the modeller to assemble has misguidedly carried over into their RTR(?) operation?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Ian Hargrave]

"Someone " from Heljan is undoubtedly reading this thread. Unfortunately he arrived too late on the scene to make any appreciable difference to the numerous issues bedevilling this model.Of the magazines,Model Rail did not issue a favourable review I seem to recall.

 

We have seen from Larry a demonstration of what might have been.......if only...

[robmcg]

"Someone " from Heljan is undoubtedly reading this thread. Unfortunately he arrived too late on the scene to make any appreciable difference to the numerous issues bedevilling this model.Of the magazines,Model Rail did not issue a favourable review I seem to recall.

 

We have seen from Larry a demonstration of what might have been.......if only...

 

As I see it the only issues are a tendency to fall apart when subject to freight-handling, with a heavy boiler and glued-on details..

 

Given that there is no simple answer to this I think it wise to buy one expecting a high likelihood of minor damage in transit. Many here are acquainted with actual railway modelling, even if skills aren't high. I had some skills once but of course in a perfect world RTR would be just that, straight from the box.

 

To be honest I had a bad run with new Hornby RTR recently, 4 from 5 damaged to some degree in transit, where a 10-year average is about 2-5%  depending on what you call 'damaged'. A part or two needing re-fitting is very common. 

 

With the 47XX the front pony wheel assembly is commonly detached from its housing, and detail parts including such as boiler stays, injector pipes and so on can be loose.  Short of a recall and re-design there is no answer.   Return if damaged for full refund.  

 

I have bought a second BR green version, 4705.   Thus I have halved my risk of getting a bad one.

 

I am fully aware that I may have to do repairs.  A brother has bought a weathered 4705 from Rails, it will be interesting to see how that fares, also.

 

As many mention, how could you build one yourself to this standard?

 

I look forward to creating a pic on a Devon bank, with 12-on, unassisted.  Fit firemen only need apply.

 

Here is one of my recent pics with train reporting numbers removed. Shamelessly edited from an early BR black version and a Rails ad. The odd top lamp bracket is nothing but a cruel trick of the light. 

 

 

I think this engine is the best-looking of all from Swindon, and the Heljan model may not be perfect, but does it for me!  Engine design never really went anywhere after 1921, eh?  (I'm waiting for a Stirling Single, too....)

Edited August 9, 2018 by robmcg

[BRIAN T]

I’m sorry , I can’t believe this well worn problem of Model build quality particularly by Heljan is still excused and defended by the more self acclaimed skilled modellers in the forum who because they can fashion,fabricate,glue their way past the faults it’s ok to accept them.

There are a lot of people out there without these skills.

These models are a lot of money to buy .no ifs buts or maybes,they should be READY TO RUN.

I have been affected by these problems myself going back to the combustible Claytons and yes at the end of the day I tried fixing it , but no more.i have read many times in these forums that despite the considerable failures in manufacturing of these models discussed here,Heljan have said that no one has complained to them direct or...it’s the first they have heard about it.

So please climb above the skill level and let the manufacture know ALL IS NOT WELL

[robmcg]

...

So please climb above the skill level and let the manufacture know ALL IS NOT WELL

 

I think Heljan and Ben Jones will be well aware of the damage-in-transit issues.

 

I'm not sure about widespread mechanical failure, but don't recall reading many problems for the 47XX in that regard.

 

Heljan could withdraw the model but I hope they don't. If people are buying the model at over UKP150 why should they?  If they aren't selling many the price may eventually drop. It's their call.  If many are returned, it is also bad for business, and the lot may end up at lower prices.

 

It's easy to say an RTR model should have no faults, but it's the only 00 affordable 47XX on the market and I think good value even if it does require basic or simple repair.

[Harlequin]

Rob, You seem to have a rather "rose-tinted" view of this class and this model.

 

Many other high-standard RTR locos are delivered by other manufacturers with a far lower fault level and the problems with this one are not all about damage in transit. E.g. Larry saying bits fell off while he was painting, the ski-jump front-end, the pony axle not being clipped in properly...

 

People were originally buying the model because they expected better. People buying the model now either don't know about the problems or (like yourself, apparently) are prepared to gamble time and money on getting a good one.

 

The fact that this is the only RTR model of the class on the market currently can not excuse shoddy manufacturing.