Jump to content

Hilux5972

Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl

Recommended Posts

If I may be permitted to add a hopefully pertinent view....

 

If people don't like the Heljan, or it's faulted, Heljan will soon get the picture. Low sales, against a much-vaunted & highly expected model. Me included, I should add. The pictures or photographs add (or distract) not one jot. Fine if you're buying pictures or photographs, but are you?

 

Robs pictures won't sway me, but negative reports of the model will seriously influence me. If Heljan had indeed turned out a 100% cracker, Robs pictures would be irrelevant in this instance, against an overwhelming positive feeling. It's a complaint to Heljan that's required, not a bloke who's good at photo manipulation.

 

There are two models I've left out in the last 18 months. First was the Dean Goods, the second being the 47xx. I could still buy either, or both. But, my wallet has stayed well shut due to the negative press on both models. Lashing out at the wrong target is a waste of energy, in this instance.

 

Personally, what disquiet? A good rendition of a picture, or a model that's broken? Recrimination for sure, but where?

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

For geographical reasons the Heljan 47XX does not interest me but if I were modelling a different area it might and it would then boil down to doing to it what my skills/ability allow although the BR lined green livery would, I'm fairly sure be well beyond those skills and is the one I would like.   As Ian has said above his wallet has remained shut and mine probably would too, I'd sooner spend time and money looking for a Cotswold kit which in my opinion captured the look of these engines far better than the Heljan model does.

 

But at the end of the day, and trusting that we are getting objective reports from other modellers (and there are good ones among the less approving ones) I would probably steer clear - but that is me and in the end for everyone it is down to personal choice and what they do or don't want to spend their money on.  And there are of course plenty of photos of the real thing on the 'net and in books to help those who want to check, correct, or add details and it is against them, and my own photos and memories that I would make my judgement.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to agree Mike, I would like one just for nostalgic reasons, and happy memories but it does not fit in my 'layout area'. I'd probably be tempted if I come across a cheap non-runner/ motor-less example for the display case. :sungum:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ron Charlton's Cotswold 47XX was indeed a good looking loco when built and it weighed a ton. But like many other models, I wonder what I would think of it today.  The Heljan model is good, superb in fact, once all the detail parts have been put back or replaced. When I say detail parts, the ones that fell off mine were Tender lamp brackets, one Tender buffer, Injector overflow pipes, a rod between the loco frames, front vacuum pipe,  one buffer, small wire in front of cab, one lower cylinder slide bar and the support stays (when boiler was lifted).

 

I struggled to fit the brake rodding on the loco as it wouldn't stay put while the glue dried (a weird idea for fitting anyway) and I gave up on a front coupling because the bogie-mounted NEM socket faces upwards. Newly fabricated parts were front vac pipe, injector overflows and front stays, the latter because  wanted them to look like the prototype. I could throw in engraved plates as well seeing as Heljans mouded plates were too small and rubbish. Then I repainted two 47XX's because I wanted them in BR lined green and could not live with Heljans effort.

 

So I ended up with two locos I was proud to own and of course all the work actually happened! Fitting sound was a doddle I might add. I got in a Flame10 cube speaker and two stay-alives. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note to Self.

 

 Lesson learned from Heljan 47xx Experience:   

 

     Don't make a purchase decision to buy or not to buy purely on photos and other people's comments, positive or negative.

 

        Get hold of one and try it out.

 

 

.....................See same lesson learned (but forgotten) buying first car countless decades ago

 

 

But in reverse    :good:  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is anyone aware of response from Heljan regarding the issues surrounding their night owl?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone is concerned about haulage capacity, mine has just started, without slipping, 33 wagons on a 1 in 46 between the lower and upper end of my layout. Felt it would have taken more, but I don't intend putting that many behind it in use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ron Charlton's Cotswold 47XX was indeed a good looking loco when built and it weighed a ton. But like many other models, I wonder what I would think of it today.  The Heljan model is good, superb in fact, once all the detail parts have been put back or replaced. When I say detail parts, the ones that fell off mine were Tender lamp brackets, one Tender buffer, Injector overflow pipes, a rod between the loco frames, front vacuum pipe,  one buffer, small wire in front of cab, one lower cylinder slide bar and the support stays (when boiler was lifted).

 

I struggled to fit the brake rodding on the loco as it wouldn't stay put while the glue dried (a weird idea for fitting anyway) and I gave up on a front coupling because the bogie-mounted NEM socket faces upwards. Newly fabricated parts were front vac pipe, injector overflows and front stays, the latter because  wanted them to look like the prototype. I could throw in engraved plates as well seeing as Heljans mouded plates were too small and rubbish. Then I repainted two 47XX's because I wanted them in BR lined green and could not live with Heljans effort.

 

So I ended up with two locos I was proud to own and of course all the work actually happened! Fitting sound was a doddle I might add. I got in a Flame10 cube speaker and two stay-alives. 

 

I bought an assembled and (poorly) painted one a few years back because it came as part of an auction job.  Very heavy as you say and as it had an  'out of magnetism' motor which mean t it could hardly move itself I quickly sold it on to somebody who wanted one as a static model for his dad who had worked on them.  It would undoubtedly have need some detail work if I'd kept it and really the paint needed to be stripped and started from fresh but it did look pretty good and in my opinion it really caught the look of a 47XX.   They do appeal to me a bit on sentimental grounds but I would much prefer a really good 'Aberdare' even though it involves a bit of era stretching for me.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... I would much prefer a really good 'Aberdare'....

A man after my own heart!!!. An Aberdare would be a definite purchase and is one of the few Long lived classes outstanding to be done by a RTR manufacturer.

 

Edited as had a blonde moment! Doh! Aberdares were a Dean loco, but still long lived.

Edited by ndg910
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A man after my own heart!!!. An Aberdare would be a definite purchase and is one of the few Long lived classes outstanding to be done by a RTR manufacturer.

 

Edited as had a blonde moment! Doh! Aberdares were a Dean loco, but still long lived.

 

I would strongly suspect we'll see a 21st century standard Saint, Manor and Hawksworth County before we get any whiff of an Aberdare. 

 

CoY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13th August and my 47xx has arrived from Mr Hatton, thank you.  It came in one piece and runs perfectly, well done Heljan.  I am not so sure about the orange lining.  I might experiment.

 

Anyway some real pictures and a video.

 

Ray

 

30151049738_fbea65a719_b.jpg

 

30151046968_4023b210b1_b.jpg

The Night Owl has landed

 

Edited by Silver Sidelines
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My experiences with Heljan locos (all bought from Hattons at bargain prices - I rarely buy at RRP)

 

Brush 4 "Isambard Kingdom Brunel", 2 x standard green Brush 4's, Kestrel, Lion, Clayton, Bo Bo Type 1, and a green Metrovick that would frighten a police horse !!.

 

(Touch wood) - not the slightest problem, all run very well & nowts fallen off !!

 

A few weeks ago a I bought a bargain Tango 02 - again nothing adrift and she runs well and hauls superbly.

 

I must admit that (over the years) reading on these pages about mazak exploding brush 4's, smoking claytons and wonky 02's I have a little "concern" re my Heljan locos - will they last, etc ?

 

I think they will (fingers crossed !!), or perhaps I'm lucky. They are all nice looking / hauling / running locos. Every bit as good as current Hornby & Bachmann.

 

Perhaps a lot of the problem of bits falling off is as has been mentioned poor packaging / rough handling in delivery.. Our models get ever more detailed, ever more to scale, and so they become ever more fragile as a result. Perhaps Frank Hornby had it right with his Hornby Dublo bulletproof metal bodied locos - a couple of which I still run. They will last forever, I'm certain of that !!!

 

Brit15

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the light of the two previous posts I would like to add this vendor's picture of a Heljan GW 47XX (TMC) which I am sorely tempted to buy.

 

The fly in the ointment is getting it to NZ without damage. Quite expensive too, but in my opinion a really good example of 00 RTR art.

 

post-7929-0-88571000-1534198699_thumb.jpg

 

To those who find excessive fault in the model, we will have to disagree, politely. :)

 

edit; also a vendor's pic, Rails, who can say these are poor models?  If in one piece.

 

post-7929-0-18301200-1534202405_thumb.jpg

 

cheers

Edited by robmcg
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13th August and my 47xx has arrived from Mr Hatton, thank you.  It came in one piece and runs perfectly, well done Heljan.  I am not so sure about the orange lining.  I might experiment.

 

Anyway some real pictures and a video.

 

Ray

 

30151049738_fbea65a719_b.jpg

 

30151046968_4023b210b1_b.jpg

The Night Owl has landed

 

 

 

Many thanks,Ray for having the courage to buy one.I'm quite certain it runs ok.It is indeed an illuminating post......in more ways than one :sungum:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the light of the two previous posts I would like to add this vendor's picture of a Heljan GW 47XX (TMC) which I am sorely tempted to buy.

 

The fly in the ointment is getting it to NZ without damage. Quite expensive too, but in my opinion a really good example of 00 RTR art.

 

attachicon.gif4707_47XX_portrait3_1abcd_1200.jpg

 

To those who find excessive fault in the model, we will have to disagree, politely. :)

 

edit; also a vendor's pic, Rails, who can say these are poor models?  If in one piece.

 

attachicon.gif4707_47XX_portrait2_1ab_r1290.jpg

 

cheers

 

Rob please if you can use your photoshop skills to do something about those ghastly plates...as one who does find fault with sound reason with this model,particularly in its latest BR guise. :nono:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob please if you can use your photoshop skills to do something about those ghastly plates...as one who does find fault with sound reason with this model,particularly in its latest BR guise. :nono:

 

I am pleased to be able to have a civilised discourse on the subject, certainly.

 

But I had better not change the plates with Paintshop, even if it would take only 30 secs.

 

The bright colours in the post from Silver Sidelines are a bit of a worry, I look forward to seeing my BR versions in the flesh, my photos tend towards de-saturation but natural light will help too.  I will try to post something honest and useful when they arrive.

 

typo edit

Edited by robmcg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A question,

 

Has anyone converted the Heljan 47xx to EM gauge and, failing that, is anyone able to measure the clearances inside the splashers to see if there is enough room for EM or P4 wheels? Are the splashers plastic or mazak cast into the  running board (footplate)?

 

 

Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I am not so sure about the orange lining. 

Yellow is the new orange!! :sungum:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.... They are all nice looking / hauling / running locos. Every bit as good as current Hornby & Bachmann.

 A slightly more general comment about Heljan. Much the same as 'Apollo' I have a small number of Heljan products and so far free of any serious troubles, and when it comes to performance on the layout, each a star.

 

Each manufacturer brings their own 'basket' of characteristics in the products they produce. They are not absolutely equivalent on all aspects: stronger here, weaker there. Heljan have scored for me with subject choices that I never thought would get a RTR model. And take a look at Ray's (Silver Sidelines) close in pic of the 47xx in post 1217, is any other RTR OO manufacturer obliging us with such fine flanges? There's much more, and I would suggest the glass is well over half full...

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks,Ray for having the courage to buy one.I'm quite certain it runs ok.It is indeed an illuminating post......in more ways than one :sungum:

 

Great to see the video, the rake of chocolate and cream Mk1's is to die for!

 

The orange, and to an extent the green, do come across as a bit bright to my eyes anyway. The late crest must place the loco in the last phase of its life, and I suspect a bit of neglect at that stage would be quite appropriate. Whether you wish to venture into weathering of a new and quite expensive model is another matter.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My experiences with Heljan locos (all bought from Hattons at bargain prices - I rarely buy at RRP)

 

Brush 4 "Isambard Kingdom Brunel", 2 x standard green Brush 4's, Kestrel, Lion, Clayton, Bo Bo Type 1, and a green Metrovick that would frighten a police horse !!.

 

(Touch wood) - not the slightest problem, all run very well & nowts fallen off !!

 

A few weeks ago a I bought a bargain Tango 02 - again nothing adrift and she runs well and hauls superbly.

 

I must admit that (over the years) reading on these pages about mazak exploding brush 4's, smoking claytons and wonky 02's I have a little "concern" re my Heljan locos - will they last, etc ?

 

I think they will (fingers crossed !!), or perhaps I'm lucky. They are all nice looking / hauling / running locos. Every bit as good as current Hornby & Bachmann.

 

Perhaps a lot of the problem of bits falling off is as has been mentioned poor packaging / rough handling in delivery.. Our models get ever more detailed, ever more to scale, and so they become ever more fragile as a result. Perhaps Frank Hornby had it right with his Hornby Dublo bulletproof metal bodied locos - a couple of which I still run. They will last forever, I'm certain of that !!!

 

Brit15

 

Funnily enough I was thinking just the same about my own Heljan locos in 4mm, which run to 31 in total (I think), and like you many bought at a good discount. I have two or three 47's on the Mazak watch list, but touchwood no problems to date.

 

Aside from the two that I bought knowing of likely problems (since resolved), and for a suitably adjusted price, all have been top notch, and I continue to view their mechanisms as the best on the RTR market.

 

They've all had full buffer beam detailing and scale couplings fitted, identity changes on many, etched plates as appropriate, plus some extra work on the 4 Westerns in terms of the brakes and pull rods. I wouldn't change any of them, although less tubby 47's and better shaped Westerns have appeared since.

 

So a good track record over nearly 20 years, since the first 47's appeared.

 

John.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yellow is the new orange!! :sungum:

 

Pictures taken under bright yellow lighting.

Actually under daylight conditions the BR green is one of the best renditions I've seen and the lining is orange - just way too wide, that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The lighting is replacement LED 22w tubes (daylight 4000k) - so not yellow.

 

Pictures taken under bright yellow lighting.

Actually under daylight conditions the BR green is one of the best renditions I've seen and the lining is orange - just way too wide, that's all.

For comparison a couple of Bachmann A4s under the same lighting. The rear model was either Seagull or Guillemot from the distant past whilst the front model was from a later batch with a different paint finish and mini couplings.

 

43739953011_21a410862b_b.jpg

31-954A (L) was 31-951Z with KingsX plates ®

 

In my view it is not 'the best rendition' - it is certainly different to offerings from Bachmann and Hornby!

 

Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In response to something posted earlier, the late crest does not denote a loco is towards the end of its life. Repaint anything and it looks as good as new.........The steam locomotive was not somehow different from the norm. Judging by colour photographs, the 47XX locos looked particularly impressive when ex works in BR lined green, and quite a few were kept very clean in the latter half of the 1950's.

 

If you dont like Heljans lining, one option is to purchase the green GWR version, give it post 1956 totems and engraved plates, and live without the lining. Another is to apply waterslide lining to this model, but on this, I have never used the stuff and do not know if it is any finer than that applied by Heljan.

 

The 47XX is relatively easy to respray. Remove the cab first (two side-by-side screws under the cab, then the boiler (screw under pony truck and the screw between the rear driving wheels). Tender body comes off by detaching the plug-in tool boxes and water filler cap and removing the small screws. Cellulose and spraycan paint does not like Heljans paint, so do not flood the paint on. I transferred some Halfords semi-matt black to my spraygun and I still had to be very careful when spraying the model. Brush paint the splasher sides, boiler support bracket, rocker covers and the running plate 'pelmet'.

 

I hope some of this real-world advice is of use.

Edited by coachmann
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some comparisons which might assist. As said above lighting is 22w replacement LED tubes (daylight 4000k). Camera is a Sony using default settings.

 

43980500952_c02e2695d0_b.jpg

Green comparison - Bachmann 43xx, Heljan 47xx, Hornby Llanvair Grange - Blue Peter in the background

 

43122967955_dbbe1e02d1_b.jpg

 

43122971465_9f7b044b8e_b.jpg

 

Green comparison - Bachmann 43xx v Heljan 47xx

 

I am not going to separate Heljan engine and tender so the 43xx is positioned nearer the camera. That said the cab lining seems identical in thickness to the Heljan model - just with more red colouring.

 

There has been plenty said about Hornby's green elsewhere!

 

Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it looks like Mainline, and it pulls like Mainline, the cab side numbers are like Mainline, the lining is like Mainline, the green is like Mainline.. it must therefore be a Mainline model.

:-)

 

We’ve gone all 80’s again.

 

Seriously though, I have to admit those pictures convince me a lot more that it’s not an odd one out.

Edited by adb968008

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.