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Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owl


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5 hours ago, 40F said:

Postage to CANADA is not cheap .Likewise postage from Canada to the UK ain`t cheap. 

The parts I wanted to get could go in an envelope.

Mailing from the UK is way cheaper than vice versa!

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On 09/03/2020 at 21:59, lofty1966 said:

The parts I wanted to get could go in an envelope.

Mailing from the UK is way cheaper than vice versa!

 

Not a regular envelope, maybe a padded envelope.  That puts you into a "large envelope" starting at £3.45 and going up reasonably quickly based on weight (over 100g, which isn't much, jumps to £5.00 or higher)

 

So the quoted price seems reasonable given the packaging that would be necessary.

 

https://www.royalmail.com/sending/international/international-standard

Edited by mdvle
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1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

Not a regular envelope, maybe a padded envelope.  That puts you into a "large envelope" starting at £3.45 and going up reasonably quickly based on weight (over 100g, which isn't much, jumps to £5.00 or higher)

 

So the quoted price seems reasonable given the packaging that would be necessary.

 

https://www.royalmail.com/sending/international/international-standard

Two bits of stamped steel about 40mm×4mm×.5mm

Yeah, that's a £7.61 plus £2.50 "special order" right there!

You keep on banging the drum for "value for money"

I'll be too busy making some nickel silver ones from left over etch to hear.

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1 hour ago, lofty1966 said:

Two bits of stamped steel about 40mm×4mm×.5mm

Yeah, that's a £7.61 plus £2.50 "special order" right there!

You keep on banging the drum for "value for money"

I'll be too busy making some nickel silver ones from left over etch to hear.

 

I never said it was "value for money", but rather given the postal rates published by Royal Mail the price quoted to you was in line for what Royal Mail is charging.

 

Part of the equation of buying non-local is the additional costs involved, not just in the initial purchase but in any follow up stuff that becomes necessary - or accepting, as you have, the finding alternate solutions to problems to avoid the shipping costs.

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  • 1 month later...

Has anyone had trouble with the pony-truck of the 47xx derailing on slightly suspect track.

 

Mine is notorious for derailing even at slow speeds on the lift up section, unfortunately it is difficult to get this track absolutely perfect because of the need of it to move (lift up and down), temperature changes don't help either. In saying this all other locos behave 99% of the time and I have seen worse track.

 

I have tried adding some weight to the truck in the shape of some small bits of lead sheet but there isn't a whole lot of room and it made no difference. It doesn't derail normally either as it just jumps off.    

 

Some solutions would be greatly appreciated

 

Connor

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42 minutes ago, CCGWR said:

Has anyone had trouble with the pony-truck of the 47xx derailing on slightly suspect track.

 

Mine is notorious for derailing even at slow speeds on the lift up section, unfortunately it is difficult to get this track absolutely perfect because of the need of it to move (lift up and down), temperature changes don't help either. In saying this all other locos behave 99% of the time and I have seen worse track.

 

I have tried adding some weight to the truck in the shape of some small bits of lead sheet but there isn't a whole lot of room and it made no difference. It doesn't derail normally either as it just jumps off.    

 

Some solutions would be greatly appreciated

 

Connor

Have you checked the back to backs? I haven't got a 47xx but its the cause of 99% of derailments in my experience

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1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Have you checked the back to backs? I haven't got a 47xx but its the cause of 99% of derailments in my experience

 

No I haven't, will have a look with a gauge and see if that fixes things

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Hi all,

 

I was put off these by the quality problems but I just saw that Olivia's Models are advertising repaired and repackaged ones as clearance on the well known auction site. Search "Heljan 47xx Class. 2-8-0 ‘Night Owl’ Options"

£140 each and seem to have all the livery options.

 

More importantly, they seemed to have addressed many of the parts that break in transit due to Heljan's sub-optimal packaging.

 

I can't wait for Mr Postie!...

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9 hours ago, CCGWR said:

Has anyone had trouble with the pony-truck of the 47xx derailing on slightly suspect track...

Not once, but then I only have the Heljan O2. I am amazed that the pony truck on these stay on the track, given now fine the flanges are, no springing to hold them down and how indifferent some of my track laying is. As well as gauging of the wheelset, make sure the truck can drop so the wheelset remains in contact with the rails if the front end is lifted off the rails slightly, and that it doesn't foul anywhere while swinging out for your tightest layout curves.

 

I was planning on a Bachmann style pony truck spring when I first got an O2 and saw the very simple pony truck arrangement, but then there were no derailments... :(

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6 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Not once, but then I only have the Heljan O2. I am amazed that the pony truck on these stay on the track, given now fine the flanges are, no springing to hold them down and how indifferent some of my track laying is. As well as gauging of the wheelset, make sure the truck can drop so the wheelset remains in contact with the rails if the front end is lifted off the rails slightly, and that it doesn't foul anywhere while swinging out for your tightest layout curves.

 

I was planning on a Bachmann style pony truck spring when I first got an O2 and saw the very simple pony truck arrangement, but then there were no derailments... :(

Thanks for that, it is only on this piece of track and it seems to stay on the track around the tightest curves (and they are some tight ones!) and the track does drop rather than lift on the derail hotspot ((he other end where it lifts slightly seem to cope better). I might consider something similar to you as you are right the flanges are very fine.

 

Connor

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CCGWR;- Movable sections are always a bit of a liability. Use good quality hinges which are slop-free, and ensure you have positive stops where the flap shuts - metal to metal is best - and use a couple of decent over-centre latches to hold it firmly against the stops. You can also use some sort of locating pin(s). A bit of a gap in the rails won't normally derail, but if the lines don't align properly in both axises, you need to address that before thinking of altering any locos.... :-)

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You could try a spot of gauge widening on the offending joint: in the direction of travel where the wheels meet the track on the trailing side of the gap, just flair the rails very slightly to catch the wheel flanges as they try to go off the rails - so gauge on the leading side is 16.5 mm, but on the trailing side maybe 16.8 mm or something like that. Doing this may also allow for movement due to temperature and moisture changes.

I did this where my lifting section meets the fixed bits and it works for me. It is important not to overdo the gauge widening: just enough to catch the wheels, no more.

You could also round the inner corners of the rails with a file at the joint so there are no sharp edges where the flanges go over the joint.

Edited by SRman
Fixing typos.
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  • 3 months later...

I regret that I feel the need to make comments on this forum but I feel no alternative.

 

My 47xx which I bought a couple of years ago hasn't been used very much but I try to give all of my locos a run every so often to check them the last time I tried  this engine it did not move, then I noticed a smell and smoke was rising from the tender. Needless to say power was turned off and an investigation started. The blanking plug was the culprit.

1548008006_P1040677(2).JPG.7d7367e79f0d60fb542b62f8a70acebc.JPG

328308480_P1040678(2).JPG.2bf8de3768ab0e299c1a9469d1482874.JPG

 

 

My first action was to contact Heljan using the e-mail address they give in their adverts, after three weeks and a couple of e-mails no reply at all. As Gaugemaster now handle the spares I contacted them, they did reply promptly but no replacement available. Next I contacted DCC Supplies and Richard suggested that a Dapol chip might work so it was worth a try, sadly no success. No criticism of DCC Supplies they did try.

 

In my ignorance I would expect all blanking plugs to be the same, glad I don't delve into the dark arts of DCC and I will stick to the KISS principle for my models.

 

Not sure of of where to go from here, one possibility is to bypass the remaining chip. Any suggestions welcome.

 

My opinion of Heljan customer relations cannot be printed here and it is probably a good think that I can't confront them at Warley.

 

Brian, with an expensive static model.

 

PS I'm glad I had built kits for the 1361 and 1366 tanks, they work.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Yes, but why would a simple blanking plate burn out? Methinks the motor may have gone...

 

 

Yep, that would be my thought too.

 

I don't have a 47xx, but the motors in the LNER 02 and Beyer Garratt are well known for their problems, if this is the same sort it may have burnt out and this has simply fed back with overload to the blanking plate. Olivia's Trains in Sheffield can supply new motors (I know this as I've bought and fitted one for the D84xx), and also they can fit them for you as well for a small charge. As you've drawn a rather disappointing blank (being polite) with the Manufacturer, it might be worth giving Olivia's a call to see if they'd offer a repair service to you. You'd need to explain about the blanking plate and also your suspicion (to be confirmed) that the motor was gone as well.

 

John.

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12 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Yes, but why would a simple blanking plate burn out? Methinks the motor may have gone...

 

 

That is something that I will have to investigate.

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

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33 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

...I don't have a 47xx, but the motors in the LNER 02 and Beyer Garratt are well known for their problems...

The Beyer-Garratt, 'twas so.

 

Now, I have followed the O2 thread throughout (what with being a drysider) and have no recollection of a significant volume of motor problem reports. The two examples I have plod away reliably, the first purchase must be four years in service. (Likewise no trouble with my three narrow body Heljan diesels (classes 15 and 16) which also appear to use the same cylindrical three pole motor.)

 

While a motor fault may be responsible, given the somewhat messy wiring in the O2 tenders, if the 47xx arrangements are similar that might equally be a potential cause.

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I have only looked in the tender so far and I do notice how fine the wires are. The are no instructions about removing the loco body so it will be a case of removing a few screws and see what happens.

 

If the motor has blown the blanking plug thank goodness I don’t have DCC sound fitted!
 

Brian.

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8 minutes ago, 88C said:

I have only looked in the tender so far and I do notice how fine the wires are. The are no instructions about removing the loco body so it will be a case of removing a few screws and see what happens.

 

If the motor has blown the blanking plug thank goodness I don’t have DCC sound fitted!
 

Brian.

The motor is quite difficult to get at - it's enclosed in the centre of two big weights that fill the boiler and firebox. I think there are instructions further back in this thread.

 

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8 minutes ago, 88C said:

I have only looked in the tender so far and I do notice how fine the wires are. The are no instructions about removing the loco body so it will be a case of removing a few screws and see what happens...

I am an enthusiast for taking models apart, but not the Heljan steamers, a fragile and somewhat complex construction.

As a start, my suggestion would be to test the motor circuit of the loco disconnected from the tender; first  with an ohmmeter for continuity, and if there is continuity, then DC to see if the motor runs normally, before even thinking about removing the loco body. But it is up to you...

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On 03/04/2018 at 17:25, adb968008 said:

I don’t know as I have ever seen a rtr steam loco assembled like this before... (I haven’t disassembled an O2 so assume it’s similar.

post-20773-0-65217900-1522772716_thumb.jpegpost-20773-0-98855700-1522772727_thumb.jpeg

 

The motor is completely contained within a metal block, that free floats as a unit inside the boilerpost-20773-0-78910800-1522772909_thumb.jpeg

 

No wires, it connects via contacts on the chassis to the boiler/motor block.

Inside is our old friend the miniature can motor that looks like the class 15 / Garratt motor.

 

post-20773-0-21500700-1522773056_thumb.jpeg


dissassembly

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I don't think the 02 is quite this tricky, to be honest I can't really remember and I won't be taking mine to bits again any time soon with the general fragility of the valve gear. The motor is the same however, as it is in the Garratt, the 15, 16 and 17. The difference betweeen th classes is the flywheel and gear fittings attached to said motor, so that if you buy a replacement motor you also need to refit the flywheel and gears from the old one (or pay someone to do it).

 

John.

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Thanks for all the replies, it is rather looking like I have a display model. Normal life means that I won't have chance to investigate further, a clear head will be needed and I'm not sure that I can justify spending on professional help as the only chance to give it a proper run is at the club, remember them.

 

Brian

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