Dettingen GCR might have been layout

[Andy Hayter]

Not sure about the fixings in WW! Richard, but certainly later they would have had a turnlock (not sure that is the right term) fixing which is a lot like a turnbuckle as used later in underframes.  Basically connected to two bits of chain with a hook at each end connecting into a central frame.  The screw connection to each hook is  opposite, so screwing the central frame section in one direction tightens the chains and in the other loosens them. 

[richard i]

Not sure about the fixings in WW! Richard, but certainly later they would have had a turnlock (not sure that is the right term) fixing which is a lot like a turnbuckle as used later in underframes.  Basically connected to two bits of chain with a hook at each end connecting into a central frame.  The screw connection to each hook is  opposite, so screwing the central frame section in one direction tightens the chains and in the other loosens them. 

Thank you

Yes that was what i thought might be, now does anyone know of a supplier of such an item for 4mm?

[Andy Hayter]

If such a thing exists, something like a 2mm/ft screw link coupling might do the job.

[Steve Sykes]

Try the N Brass website, I think he may do an etch that might be suitable.

 

Steve

[richard i]

two great hints, i will follow them both up

[Andy Hayter]

I spent this morning going through the pictures and drawings in Les Chemins de fer francais dans la premiere Guerre mondiale (French railways in the first world war) by Aurelien Prevot. 

 

I could find only one picture of an item of motorised transport on a wagon - a recaptured British Mk 4 still with German markings.  This had no visible means of securing, which may be because it had been removed already, or it may be hidden behind the group of soldiers and railwaymen posing in front, or it may have been fixed low down on the underside.

 

What was interesting was the means of securing the large numbers of spoke wheeled, horse drawn transport - from small delivery vans up to what seemed to me like some pretty heavy field ordinance - 155mm cannon on double carriage.   It has to be said this was France and not the GCR, but may still be indicative of methods of the time.  In all cases the vehicles were lashed with ropes alone.   The lashing system seems to be universal.  Starting at one corner of the wagon, the rope runs up to the spoke nearest horizontal(or just below)  and is wrapped once around it near the rim.  The rope then runs on across the hub to the opposite spoke (or the one just below if the opposite spoke is above the horizontal)has another single turn near the rim and then runs on to the next wheel - whether on the same vehicle or the next.   Final tie-off is at the far corner of the wagon.

 

So now I am not sure whether chains would have been used or not.  I still think yes.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Andy Hayter

[richard i]

Thats brilliant info, i am about to rope down a carriage as well so this will be invaluable. Thank you.

[richard i]

Transfers are on, the tank has been named to give it character and the number has been imitated from photos of whippets in France.

 

 

The gunpowder van needs to have just that written in black on each side so i feel a first attempt at a transfer coming on.

 

 

The twin bolster

 

 

Lastly the set.

 

 

Next up  loads, chains, weathering. - thanks for all the advice on this front.

[richbrummitt]

I make my chains up by cutting and soldering the NBrass container securing chains, which has turnbuckles and hooks, onto lengths of finest chain (c.70 links/in) from Fleetline. I work in 2mm though so you might need slightly larger parts.

 

See here on the machinery truck, although the picture is a little blurry.

Edited March 16, 2015 by richbrummitt

[richard i]

I make my chains up by cutting and soldering the NBrass container securing chains, which has turnbuckles and hooks, onto lengths of finest chain (c.70 links/in) from Fleetline. I work in 2mm though so you might need slightly larger parts.

 

See here on the machinery truck, although the picture is a little blurry.

I will look into those too as they made turnbuckles in various sizes so if he does not do 4mm versions then 2mm versions might work out.

[richard i]

sloooooooooooooooow progress has been made

 

the twin bolster has been fitted with its load and chains looped as per photos.

 

 

And the reason for the delay.....

 

 

My kids get to chose some LEGO or a model to be built if they finish a work book. All three have finished a book recenty hence the Hurricane, Bf109 and F111.

 

Back to proper modelling.

[richard i]

Just an update on the flatrol,

Overall with load, it is varnished balsa wood to look, i hope, like oak beams.

 

 

It does though show two things i changed/ worked on.

Firstly the stantions were simple wire ones but the chains came from the top so i made new ones from doubled over wire and chain then soldered up and rounded the doubled over wire shut.

Secondly are all the plates which are in paper and scaled then cut out and stuck down, it is not etched brass but at viewing distance it looks alright, even if the phtotos show it in cruel close up.

 

 

I might do this for all wagons from now on as long as i can find a side on picture.

Still need to do transfers and weathering.

[Clive Mortimore]

Very nice, sir.

[richard i]

Very nice, sir.

One day i hope to be as good with plastic as you are.

[richard i]

The finished flatrol. With transfers fitted, it is longer than 3 wagons so makes up a goodly proportion of one of the goods trains.

 

 

Next up rigging up horses to look like they are pulling a load as Clive has pointed out that horses c1910 were all work horse.

 

 

Then on to the OCT (A modeller's work is never done)

Richard

[richard i]

progress on the packet of PECO ponies.

First fit the harnesses to the horses.

 

 

paint and add reins from cotton and the brass loops on the back.

 

 

Lastly Clive gets his horse and can deliver his coal around the layout homes.

 

 

The other three horses will get their work loads over time. I may tie one or two up in the goods yard.

 

Richard

[richard i]

Thanks for the likes. The carriage load for the OCT is progressing and the WWI biplane for the weltrol wagon which is in the build queue.

more wagons and loads....at some point i have to build a carriage or two.

Richard

[richard i]

Computer issues and a scratch build ensures slower progress.

Here is the OCT in the raw. I like it like this as it shows hat has gone into it.

 

 

ABS buffers at one end, scratch built ones at the other, Bachmann spare vac and air pipes, slaters plasticard, evergreen rod and strip, wizard models wire and spat and winkle couplings (to come), MJT w irons, Gibson wheels, my own castings for the axalboxes and springs, parkside dundas vaccum cylinder and brake Vees, cooper craft brake levers and handles.

 

 

This all makes me thankful for my spares box and grateful for the small suppliers without whom this project would have been more difficult. Long may people go on supporting them.

[richard i]

A long time without a post because the computer went down.

Here is a little of what has been accomplished.

the OCT has been finished. the load placed on and strapped in as was suggested on here was the norm for wagon loads at the turn of the century. I hope i got it right.

 

 

the chains have arrived to tie down the whippet tank from N Brass, dealing with them even from across the Atlantic was a simple system.

 

 

next wire in the station building for light, a gate for the factory and the goundwork for the goods depot. All in hand.

Richard

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Richard

 

Station lights? Do you need them? Please do not fall into the trap that many modellers do and have station lights on in daylight. The porter would have lit the gas lamps at dusk and extinguished them soon after the last passenger train had departed. In the morning they would have been lit when he came on shift and as soon as dawn had broken they would have been out.  The station masters promotion could be impaired if the gas bill for his station was too high.

 

 

 

I got it wrong. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/  Look at the wongy lights they are on and it is supposed to be daylight.

[t-b-g]

It is lovely to see some "proper" modelling going on!

 

Especially as it is GCR and pre-grouping.

 

Regarding the OCT, there was a 4mm drawing and an article in an issue of Modellers Backtrack, which went into a bit of detail about how the load was secured. Along the top of the siderails was a thin metal strip with holes all along it, one strip each side.

 

Then there were two metal bars, which were pinned to the sides. One was placed in front of the road vehicle and one behind.

 

There was also a bit about the livery, including details of the lettering applied.

 

The issue was Vol 2 No 4, October/November 1992. If you don't have a copy of the article and would like one, drop me a PM and we can sort something out.

 

I would perhaps raise a query over the livery of the model. There doesn't seem to be much hard information and I may be wrong but I would suggest that the solebar should also be teak coloured, rather than black. Although there don't seem to be any good photos of OCT vehicles, it was normal practise for non passenger carriage vehicles to have the same livery as passenger stock and other photos show horse boxes etc. with teak coloured solebars and that would probably have applied to an OCT too.

 

If anybody has any firm information on the matter, I would be interested in seeing it too.

 

Please accept this in the constructive spirit it is intended rather than as any criticism of your lovely project. I can't wait to see what you come up with next!

 

Tony

[richard i]

It is lovely to see some "proper" modelling going on!

 

Especially as it is GCR and pre-grouping.

 

Regarding the OCT, there was a 4mm drawing and an article in an issue of Modellers Backtrack, which went into a bit of detail about how the load was secured. Along the top of the siderails was a thin metal strip with holes all along it, one strip each side.

 

Then there were two metal bars, which were pinned to the sides. One was placed in front of the road vehicle and one behind.

 

There was also a bit about the livery, including details of the lettering applied.

 

The issue was Vol 2 No 4, October/November 1992. If you don't have a copy of the article and would like one, drop me a PM and we can sort something out.

 

I would perhaps raise a query over the livery of the model. There doesn't seem to be much hard information and I may be wrong but I would suggest that the solebar should also be teak coloured, rather than black. Although there don't seem to be any good photos of OCT vehicles, it was normal practise for non passenger carriage vehicles to have the same livery as passenger stock and other photos show horse boxes etc. with teak coloured solebars and that would probably have applied to an OCT too.

 

If anybody has any firm information on the matter, I would be interested in seeing it too.

 

Please accept this in the constructive spirit it is intended rather than as any criticism of your lovely project. I can't wait to see what you come up with next!

 

Tony

thanks for the advice, i always strive to get it as accurate as possible. It will go back into the works to be improved.

I never mind constructive advice, it is one of the main reasons to be on RMWeb.

would be great to get sight of that article.

many thanks Richard

[richard i]

Hi Richard

 

Station lights? Do you need them? Please do not fall into the trap that many modellers do and have station lights on in daylight. The porter would have lit the gas lamps at dusk and extinguished them soon after the last passenger train had departed. In the morning they would have been lit when he came on shift and as soon as dawn had broken they would have been out.  The station masters promotion could be impaired if the gas bill for his station was too high.

 

 

 

I got it wrong. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/  Look at the wongy lights they are on and it is supposed to be daylight.

I will be running the full days timetable which means the early morning departures and late night coal runners. For authenticsity the lights in the room will have to be on dimmer and the sound recordings will include the hissing of gass in the lamps the yawn of the porter and the clank of milk churns. Thus the layout needs lights. And a pinch of salt.

Or it is difficult to retro fit them so i have fitted them and will wire them in if i get everything else done and the urge takes me, if i dont then they do not detract from the interiors.

Richard

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Richard,

 

I am so glad Tony mentioned the cross bars. I was going to but unlike on a Monday night when we could be as rude as we liked to each other people may not understand us. Anyhow back to the cross bars, see http://petesnewworkshop.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/hr-d47-open-carriage-truck-with-load.html

 

I suppose lights inside the buildings will show off the nice interiors. What is the pot plant in the waiting room, I know your mum guessed what type it was? 

[richard i]

Yes i have seen the bars and straps. the wagon will go back into the works and receive them, plus the 2X 5ft chains. 

The plant if my memory serves me right was a pontsettia(?) but i could be wildly off.

Better to correct it to be right than to have it bug me because I know it is wrong.

Richard