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Dettingen GCR might have been layout


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Richard

 

Regarding the rope work to tie down the cart, in all of the pictures, the rope was given a half hitch around the spoke and not around the rim of the wheel.  I am guessing that in the event of rough shunting, a rope around the rim might cause damage by weakening the joint between the nearest spoke and the rim where the rope goes into tension.    Whereas by wrapping the rope around the spoke there will be a small amount of play where the rope slides an inch or two down the spoke which will absorb the energy.

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More works progress photos

first the lighting in the booking office, first fitted

 

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and then in place, it is most discreet.......and as long as i do not wire it in even Spider will be happy.

 

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Then the plane load for a weltrol. it is broken down as i think it might be for transport......waiting for the corrections....

the weltrol has yet to be built. it willbe built in much the same way as the flatrol.

 

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Lastly the gate for the factory, it covers up the sky edge on the backscene, the rest will be covered by a truck. It will be a 1919 Damiler which should be waiting for me in the UK.

before

 

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after

 

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And then the goods depot got its first bit of covering .(Second post of the day!)

I went for cinders so it is darker than the dust of the lane, all scrapings from the home fire.

 

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the horses are tied awiating their return working quietly nibbling on the vegitation and the steam lorry is bring in another load to go out.

 

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Speaking of which i have a small crane, now some were floor mounted but most seem to be plinth mounted so i will build it a base. I was going to combine it with a ramp perhaps to give a place/ reason to drop off the OCT/ warflat. The only one i can find is a weak wooden affair at Calvert to drop off milk, which i might replicate if no solid brick or concreate examples were built by the GCR.

 

Suggestions?

Richard

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Okay advice needed, the chains on the cross bars on the OCT, if there is a load, where do they go?

Do they hang loose as shown on the drawing? Do they chain to the load or do they act on the steel bar  maybe as a locking mechanism?

Ideas please.

Richard

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here is a photo as it speaks a thousand words. - where do the chains fit? lying on floor, tied to the cart?

 

post-23520-0-96404400-1430220944_thumb.jpg

 

Also note the ropes have come off. i am not sure if they need refitting as the bars would hold the wagon and phogtos of LNWR and CR ones do not have them but that is with a car. Ideas?

Richard

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Hi Richard.

I have been watching your thread for a while and have just noticed the brake lever on your OCT is on the left end which goes against the normal right hand position. I note the same brake position on the long open earlier in your postings but also the timber wagons are on the right. I have only ever built 1 GCR wagon, a 3 plank open, and it has the lever on the right. I have come across a few other companies wagons with left hand levers or levers on both sides at the same end as in GWR but they are not that common.

Can you tell me roughly what proportion of the GCs stock used the left position. I would think it could have been a wee bit awkward for shunters to have a mixture. Did the Board of Trade ever try to enforce a uniform position like they did with the single sided brake?

Regards.

Ian.

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Ian

I am sorry the most accurate reply i can give is:

The brakes on this wagon are both at the same end, as they were originally built. Later in life they had levers at opposite ends, but then i would have had to find/ make different length brake levers. So i decided to build it in as built condition c1904 with the c1908 livery. The rule...if there is any... seems to be the earlier you go the more likely the brake levers are at the same end of the wagon, and this was changed/ retro fitted to alternate ends as time went on. As i mainly model up to 1923 i have both, after that alternate ends would be the norm. It is just zerendipidous that i have chosen to photograph the same side of the wagons.Sssssh: It must have been the better modeled of the two sides!

i am afraid i can not give an exact date as i model from photos or line drawings and follow what i see or the advice with the line drawing for each specific wagon...Unless my dyslexcia has crept in and i have reversed things.  ooops.

Richard

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Loving the wagon builds Richard. Very good work on the rivets.
Load shackles here by Roxey Moldings. There's some great detail stuff on their accessories page!

Roco mini tanks market some bendy chain, it's not the best detail but works really well. I dip it in some metal black first.

 

Regards Shaun  

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Loving the wagon builds Richard. Very good work on the rivets.

Load shackles here by Roxey Moldings. There's some great detail stuff on their accessories page!

Roco mini tanks market some bendy chain, it's not the best detail but works really well. I dip it in some metal black first.

 

Regards Shaun  

Thanks for the kind comment about the wagons, it is actually quite theraputic building them from scratch, though i did start doing it out of necessity.

Also thanks for the heads up on the roxey products, they do appear useful.

Richard

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Ian

I am sorry the most accurate reply i can give is:

The brakes on this wagon are both at the same end, as they were originally built. Later in life they had levers at opposite ends, but then i would have had to find/ make different length brake levers. So i decided to build it in as built condition c1904 with the c1908 livery. The rule...if there is any... seems to be the earlier you go the more likely the brake levers are at the same end of the wagon, and this was changed/ retro fitted to alternate ends as time went on. As i mainly model up to 1923 i have both, after that alternate ends would be the norm. It is just zerendipidous that i have chosen to photograph the same side of the wagons.Sssssh: It must have been the better modeled of the two sides!

i am afraid i can not give an exact date as i model from photos or line drawings and follow what i see or the advice with the line drawing for each specific wagon...Unless my dyslexcia has crept in and i have reversed things.  ooops.

Richard

  Thanks Richard.

 

There are lots of interesting variants on the Pre group scene which look a bit odd to those more used to the uniformity of the modern railway. I model the G&SW which used single lever brakes on one side only until the BOT regulations forced them to fit them both sides.  As a bit of a lazy modeller I quite often only fit one set despite my modelling period being 1906-12.  However I know that the G&SW, as well as others, did not rush to conform to the BOT regulations and there were still wagons with only one sided brakes running during and after the Great War period.  

Happy modelling,

Ian

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Richard

 

I remain completely in awe of the amount of progress you have made and the quality of the work.

I nominally have nothing to do and cannot begin to match your progress.  I always enjoy the next set of photos.

 

Andy

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At an exhibition a few years ago I bought some very fine chain at "Rural Railways" stand. It is astonishing just what they have tucked away under the counter, just because they have such a range they couldn't possibly put it all out on show.

 

On enquiring about fine chain, a couple of boxes containing many packets of different sized chain were produced and the one I got was very fine indeed!

 

As for the brakes, there is very little information about exactly when the OCTs were changed but the LH facing lever is quite correct for "as built".

 

There are some photos of wagons with LH facing brake levers in LNER livery in "Tatlow" so not everthing had been altered by 1923.

 

Tony

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Richard

 

I remain completely in awe of the amount of progress you have made and the quality of the work.

I nominally have nothing to do and cannot begin to match your progress.  I always enjoy the next set of photos.

 

Andy

many thanks, it is amazing how having three small kids focusses the mind on intense hobbying as stress relief when you can get to it. Plus with little kids you go out less so counter intuatively you end up with more evening to model.

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At an exhibition a few years ago I bought some very fine chain at "Rural Railways" stand. It is astonishing just what they have tucked away under the counter, just because they have such a range they couldn't possibly put it all out on show.

 

On enquiring about fine chain, a couple of boxes containing many packets of different sized chain were produced and the one I got was very fine indeed!

 

As for the brakes, there is very little information about exactly when the OCTs were changed but the LH facing lever is quite correct for "as built".

 

There are some photos of wagons with LH facing brake levers in LNER livery in "Tatlow" so not everthing had been altered by 1923.

 

Tony

Yes when i lived in the Uk i too used Rural railways an enjoyed the rabbit from a hat way they can pull supplies from under the counter. Good to get confirmation of the brake gear. Thanks for the feedback

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Buffers.

It should be possible to place a layout without any trains being on it. The buffers were not letting me do this

Don't get me wrong, they worked fine as a quick fix for the Wolverhampton show in 2013 but they are the standard peco product, good in its self but it is not GCR.

 

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The differences can be seen in the support width and the front and rear rails are cast as seperate items.

 

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The buffers fitted in place and then with stock posed with it. Iknow it is RTR, it will enter the works and be brought up to spec.

 

 

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Also found time to ballast another two feet,

 

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only another 12 feet to do. it is restful to do, however, i need to be in the mood to do it and i have to have a 2 hour stretch to do it. Something that is a rare occurance with kids.

Richard

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Amazing thread, I don't know why I haven't stumbled across it before.

 

One question though, would the warflat have been in olive green? It just doesn't look right, looking more ww2 than ww1. I would have expected it to be in lead grey...

 

Thanks for sharing your layout

 

Andy G

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Amazing thread, I don't know why I haven't stumbled across it before.

 

One question though, would the warflat have been in olive green? It just doesn't look right, looking more ww2 than ww1. I would have expected it to be in lead grey...

 

Thanks for sharing your layout

 

Andy G

thank you for the kind words,

i am more than happy to take advice on that one and put it back into works. Prior to this the concensus was no one was sure and only black and white photos exist, but if it can be confirmed one colour or another i will happily repaint the wagon. Do you have a source for the grey colour? Do you know what markings it would have? Most photos are of ROD warflats in France so even that from what i have found has left uncertainty. A lot of military modellers of the western front seem to be painting them black for French livery - i can't remember why i discounted that now.

Any thing that helps historical accuracy please let mw know

Richard

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Sorry Richard I've not got any proof that they weren't in olive green other than a gut feeling, which of course counts for nought!

I may be wrong but I think the MR had warflats and they were finished in their own lead grey livery. I'll get the MR wagon book off the shelf today and report back tonight if it is any help. Of course these were probably bought after WW1......

 

Thinking about it, ROD locos were painted flat lead grey  (or some sort of browney grey/fawn colour) in WW1, so wouldn't the ROD freight stock be painted the same colour?

 

Andy G

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Smurfing around the interweb I've landed at http://www.wdlr.org.uk/wdlr/blog/ it would appear that they are painting their WW1 light railway wagons in lead grey, even though their trench locos are in karki.

 

I wouldn't have thought there would be any difference been gauges..

 

WD models also suggest battleship grey for their light railway vehicles and do WD transfers for them here: http://www.wdmodels.com/page10.htm

 

Andy G

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On the subject of brake handles I believe it was 1911 before it became compulsory for them to be right handed and on both sides. However, this was for new construction. Railway companies were, I believe, allowed something like 20 years to comply. So no pre-group modeller needs worry about anything built prior to 1911 as it's entirely possible it remained unmodified - unless you can produce a dated photo of the particular wagon to prove otherwise.

 

I actually love the variety of different braking systems of the old companies (and private owners) and quietly enjoy the bewilderment and occasional apoplexy they cause the experts of more modern eras. What's more, single brake sets save money!

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Smurfing around the interweb I've landed at http://www.wdlr.org.uk/wdlr/blog/ it would appear that they are painting their WW1 light railway wagons in lead grey, even though their trench locos are in karki.

 

I wouldn't have thought there would be any difference been gauges..

 

WD models also suggest battleship grey for their light railway vehicles and do WD transfers for them here: http://www.wdmodels.com/page10.htm

 

Andy G

This is an expensive post. What a great link for WW1 kit. The lorries and wagons would look great in the streets after decommisioning and reused by local hauliers. Also the guns and accessories would make nice wagon loads. It also does lean the colour towards light grey for the warflats. However, were they painted a different colour if used in the UK rather than France/Belgium. Any view on if there was one colour or not?

thanks for your advice and time.

Richard

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This is an expensive post. What a great link for WW1 kit. The lorries and wagons would look great in the streets after decommisioning and reused by local hauliers. Also the guns and accessories would make nice wagon loads. It also does lean the colour towards light grey for the warflats. However, were they painted a different colour if used in the UK rather than France/Belgium. Any view on if there was one colour or not?

thanks for your advice and time.

Richard

Hi Richard

 

I think you will find the warflats on both sides of the channel were painted the same colours. In fact they may even be the same wagons. Once loaded with new tanks, guns etc. they would be ferried across to the continent with the same load on board. On the return journey they would carry damaged and broken equipment that could not be repaired in France.

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