Dettingen GCR might have been layout

[richard i]

Hi Richard

 

I think you will find the warflats on both sides of the channel were painted the same colours. In fact they may even be the same wagons. Once loaded with new tanks, guns etc. they would be ferried across to the continent with the same load on board. On the return journey they would carry damaged and broken equipment that could not be repaired in France.

so grey it is then, so back into the paint shop, pity i liked the green. Now lets hope i get the right grey.

[Clive Mortimore]

so grey it is then, so back into the paint shop, pity i liked the green. Now lets hope i get the right grey.

Hi Richard

 

Not too sure if there is anyone alive who can remember the right grey, but I bet it is close to the battleship grey His Majesty’s Land Ships were painted.

 

As a side note the commander of the first tanks to go into action as another Mortimore, one of your ex-students pointed that out to me last time she was home.

[uax6]

Sorry to cost you more money, I didn't trawl around WD models website too much, just in case!

 

I would say that the grey is Light Battleship grey, not dark Battleship grey, the colour difference is vast! 

 

Andy G

[richard i]

thank you Clive and Andy,

light battleship grey it is. though over here i will have to buy light battleship gray.

First tanks, another Mortimore claim to fame. Maybe i will have todo up a mark I in his colours and markings.

Richard

[James Harrison]

I should have thought that the military would have had a 'one colour suits all' approach to paint (then again, that'd be common sense!).  So in an ideal world the grey used to paint battleships would be the same grey used on tanks and railway wagons...

 

Aside from railways I also build Airfix battleships, and most of them call for Humbrol #64 all over.  Interestingly, the odd man out is the 'Iron Duke', which is the only WWI dreadnought I've built.  That uses a much darker grey- Humbrol #27.  Now that I'm not entirely convinced is quite right; since building it I've read a few books which make the comment that 'Battleship Grey' of the 1914-18 period was mixed 20 parts white to 1 part black, which suggests a light shade of grey. 

 

I guess if you wanted to be sure of getting the right shade you could do worse than getting hold of a copy of R. A. Burt's "British Battleships of World War One", but that might be a bit extravagant.

[uax6]

Paint pigments were unstable at the time, and atmospheric pollution was worse too. There are some good shots in Midland Wagons that show the differences between freshly painted grey wagons and ones that had been in traffic for some time. The older wagons were much darker than the fresh ones.

Interestingly the same book states 'After WW1 the Midland purchased a considerable quantity of grey paint, originally intended for battleships. This was mixed with black paint and other residual paints to make a sombre dark grey colour which was called Smudge. This paint was to be used only for repainting repaired wagons and not intended for new construction'

 

This sort of implies that the battleship grey was a light colour, the black being added to make it match the darker shade that the old grey paint turned in traffic.

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Update: I got kicked off the computer at home just after I wrote the above post. I then went and got Midland Wagons Vol 2 off the shelf. There are three pictures of RECTANK s in there. One looks like an offical photo (allegedly in WD livery, although the only thing you can descern is the word RECTANK about midway down the solebar) This photo is slightly odd, as I couldn't tell you if the grey was light or dark, I just couldn't make my mind up.

The next one is a photo with one loaded with a WW1 tank. I would say that this one is in light grey, although the picture is quite poor.

The last one is in LMS livery, so no use here.

 

Andy G

[richard i]

It has been a little quiet on the posting front. However, ballasting does not lend itself to works in progress shots.

 

 

It has certainly tidied up the station throat

 

 

and goes through off scene, which will be tied up with its own retaining wall/ sky

 

 

An allows interesting shots down the branch.

 

 

I am starting to play around with a cardboard prototype of the possible loading dock. This allows, fish , milk, and cars to be dropped off. I have not found a GC one to copy other than Calverts wodern affair which would be too flimsy for cars and has no ramp.

 

 

Too big? Too small? Too thin? there at all? All ideas welcome

Richard

[Mikkel]

Nice to see progress, the ballasting does add a lot to the scene. I think maybe the loading dock looks a little narrow?

[richard i]

Nice to see progress, the ballasting does add a lot to the scene. I think maybe the loading dock looks a little narrow?

Yes i had been thinking that, its length is set at three wagons long which in my view it needs to be, so it is only the width that can change. Half again or double?

[Andy Hayter]

I would say at least double width.

 

If you look at your cattle wagon, to load it will require a ramp - probably nearly the width of the wagon - and then you need the space to lead the beasts around the end of the ramp without the possibility of them jumping/falling off the edge.  This means a full body length of the beast.  Also probably some sort of fence or railings at the back for the same reason - as well as loaders falling off the back edge.  Taking all of that into account I think a scale 20ft - 80mm - would be an absolute minimum.

[richard i]

I have mocked up a mk2, sorry the photo is slightly blurry, it protrays the idea though.

 

 

Thank you for the comments, all your concerns had to some degree been bugging me too. By widening it i have been able to increase the length of platform without increasing the overall length. I could make the ramp shallower, what is the norm? 1:10? 1:20

 

I did not envisage it as a cattle dock because of its semi-urban setting, but then there might have been a slaughter house near by. It was more for getting things out of vans, Fish in that instance or cars off OCTs, the edge being used for transshipment to cart or lorry.

I had also thought about a low relief warehouse, but at the front. Would it really work? i am not convinced as of yet.

Richard

[ChrisN]

Richard,

I am not sure about ramps for goods platforms but for passenger platforms the standard is 1:8.

[Andy Hayter]

Richard

You and even the GCR might not have envisaged the loading dock being used for cattle, but that does not mean that the local squire would not have required the dock to load a horse into a horse box - who knows maybe to be sent to Epsom for the Derby!!

 

Certainly the army would have wanted it for horses to be sent to the front from 1914 onwards.

 

It is looking a lot better now, but I do agree with the comments about the slope.  Something I had not immediately noticed, but like a zit, once you see it, it won't leave your sight.

 

I agree that a half relief building at the front would be difficult to make work effectively.    You could bring the dock to the front of the board knowing that the shed was just off-scene front. 

 

Alternatively, is a small add on board at the front carrying essentially just the shed a possibility? 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Richard

 

Where is the end loading dock? Gotta 'ave some means of getting that 'orse cart on the OCT.

[richard i]

Hi Richard

 

Where is the end loading dock? Gotta 'ave some means of getting that 'orse cart on the OCT.

It comes off sideways.

That is why the sides come down as not everywhere had an end loading dock. Have a great picture of a GCR OCT being loaded with gun and limber from the side 11th August 1914 on the Warrickshire railways website. (looks like i will be building another one then! I really should cast a master then.

On my trawl around i did see some that were earth with a face on the track side as if the original builders had shifted all the dirt from leveling the site and deliberately put it to create the height differential. It would also break up the flat earth look of the last 6 feet. Though a new facia piece would be needed. It would have to come back down at the bridge end.

[richard i]

Several projects are being run concurantly.

The dock i feel needs extending and turning around to make it fit better into the scene.

 

 

The crane is moving and getting a base as all seem to in prototype photos.

Before

 

 

and after shots.

 

 

The ballasting is done

 

 

and now a loook down the layout from the station end. Still have the goods yard to finish.

 

 

The hidden branch is getting a back board, it will stop derailing trains jumping off the baseboard and as it will be done as a retaining wall it will harmonise with the front for those who look through the gap.

 

 

And i have started work on a brass kit for the first time since moving as i have invested in a USA compatable soldering iron.

 

 

More when it is finished.

Richard

[richard i]

Progress has happened on the behind the scenes siding. Unlike Granthams mine does not have a fancy traverser for removing wagons.

 

 

yes i know the retaining wall is wonky, the wood underneath shrank as the air is so much dryer here than in the UK

Just like the atmosphere of this next picture even without any trains in it.

 

 

The crane has been bedded in.

 

 

And the real reason for slow reporting. Now i have a beefy US soldering iron i can brass model again.

 

 

A GCR brake van from Mr Bedford's Mousa models range. Goes together well and he has great back up service as i had a question about the build which he replied to quickly. I could not ask for more from a kit supplier.

 

 

(therefore any mistakes with the build are all my responsibility)

Now for the painting, the fitting of wooden floors and a guard.

Richard

p.s. ignore the small dragon, it is my father in laws contribution to modelling i think he thinks the old country has dragons because that is how it is portrayed by Hollywood. Where as we all know that is not true........except in Wales.

[richard i]

And the silence is broken. Due to needing to paint and transfer the model and little spare time to do so as it is coming to the end of the year here.

Here it is finished and ready to take its place in the fleet.

 

 

I tried to have the guard looking at something on the brakevan, or just watching the ballast go by.

 

 

The side lamps are cut down Hornby ones. some pictures suggest they should be black/red?

 

 

the steps end.

 

 

what next? i ought to do the woodwork for the loading dock.

Richard

[uax6]

While you had the grey out did you re-visit the warflat?

 

Nice looking van BTW, The guard is by whom?

 

Andy G

[richard i]

While you had the grey out did you re-visit the warflat?

 

Nice looking van BTW, The guard is by whom?

 

Andy G

no warflat will be brush painted as i like the wood too much to risk lifting it with masking tape, as for the figure i can't be totally sure, he was in my people box, he was white metal so i think he wasa dart casting. They certainly do a great guard pose, but i used him in another brakevan and i could not have all my guards identically posed. For that matter i can not have all guards out so one willbe built with the guard in the cabin, maybe with the door open. .....that means modelling the interior too.

[Poggy1165]

I think the side lamps should theoretically have both a red light, to the back, and a white light to the front. When a train was in a loop, or siding, the lamp nearest the running line would be turned from red to white, so that express drivers approaching from the rear would not have a heart attack.

 

This is pretty much impossible to reproduce even in 7mm scale, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that someone has done it, in these days of DCC and other complicated stuff well beyond my simple ken.

 

At least one batch of these appears to have had vermilion ends. At least I have seen a photo where the end, and corner timbers, are a distinctly different shade to the body. However although this was common practice on certain other railways, I have never seen a written source for the GC, so it should be adopted at risk.

[richard i]

I think the side lamps should theoretically have both a red light, to the back, and a white light to the front. When a train was in a loop, or siding, the lamp nearest the running line would be turned from red to white, so that express drivers approaching from the rear would not have a heart attack.

 

This is pretty much impossible to reproduce even in 7mm scale, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that someone has done it, in these days of DCC and other complicated stuff well beyond my simple ken.

 

At least one batch of these appears to have had vermilion ends. At least I have seen a photo where the end, and corner timbers, are a distinctly different shade to the body. However although this was common practice on certain other railways, I have never seen a written source for the GC, so it should be adopted at risk.

The next one might have to have the vermilion ends for a bit of a change. As for the lamps, changing lenses is beyond me.....the colour of the lamp i could change.

Richard

[richard i]

the wagon works have been in full swing.

First up a D13 done as an insulated van.

 

 

i am pleased how the spot has come out. It was a piece of masking tape placed on paper, hole punched and the chad retrieved from the hole punch. then stuck on the side before over spraying in grey.

 

 

ssshhhhh.... the brake gar appears to be different but then if i dont tell you then you wont notice.

 

 

The next wagon is progressing therough the works. It is a Mousa Models kit. the packet said it was a D16van, but the etch says it is a D14 and it clearly does not have the outside bracing of a D16. A surprise but then i will have to re order to get the D16. The kits go together so well i would recommend them to all.

 

 

The only other unbuilt one i have is a D17 and that has just entered the works so i will need to get more.

Good thing a birthday is coming up.

 

The loading dock is cut out and is awaiting filler and plastic sides.

 

 

i shall do that once i return from the UK where i intend to get more plastic cement as the stuff over here seems so savage it melts the two components rather than just the seam.

Will all three wagons be finished before i fly?

Richard

[richard i]

anyone know what the dimensions are on a typical victorian 2 up 2 down? I was thinking about 18ft by 16ft or is this way off?

i need them for the town board which is yet to be built beyond the station