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Dettingen GCR might have been layout


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If you want the slightly fancier look to the grab handle, with the short "legs" top and bottom of the long handle bent over to one side, that's easy to do too. Once you have your basic staple shape, you need two short slots in the edge of a piece of sheet metal (some spare etch edging for instance) so that you can drop the legs of the staple into the slots. Then you keep the "crossbar" of the staple against the metal sheet and bend the legs over on the other side. Remove from the slots and you have esesntially the same shape as say an MJT etched handle.

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1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

 

That looks amazing.  The build is on my thread but it is not in one block as that would be boring.  I have not touched the MSLR carriages for a couple of years, (life has got in the way), but they are coming to the top of the list again.

 

(Thank you Richard, I shall retire quietly now, and leave this thread to your excellent build.)

 

I don't know how I have missed your thread all these years but RMWeb is huge now. That is my excuse! You have some really interesting stuff going on, so I shall pay more attention from now on!

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4 hours ago, gr.king said:

If you want the slightly fancier look to the grab handle, with the short "legs" top and bottom of the long handle bent over to one side, that's easy to do too. Once you have your basic staple shape, you need two short slots in the edge of a piece of sheet metal (some spare etch edging for instance) so that you can drop the legs of the staple into the slots. Then you keep the "crossbar" of the staple against the metal sheet and bend the legs over on the other side. Remove from the slots and you have esesntially the same shape as say an MJT etched handle.

Good advice, sounds like a plan.

richard

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Following Mr King’s advice I made grab handles out of bent wire. 
8618C98C-2170-4B90-A0A3-714FD4C3C07A.jpeg.a11ac7226cd54d8bee2b7381c8261c5b.jpeg

they look decent. Thanks for the advice. I did have to bend them in a vice as they did not want to bend in the slots in the jig. I must be missing something . No matter, they came out well even with my ham fistedness. 
richard 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Work has just finished so I can look at / have time for modeling again. I have soldered the thin flat strips of the roof on to the sides. It really Is not photogenic so no pictures as proof. I will now solder in the grab rails behind the large windows. No howls of pain from the back row over what a poor decision that is please. 
however eBay moment of the year for me. These were advertised as incomplete kits, so I bid on them to get the castings to help with my John fozzard suburbans. Thirty smackers they cost me.

31DE0D9A-471C-46F7-9854-3498E9E2FD67.jpeg.8ae2403dee823e088456adc318748571.jpeg

On receiving them I checked what I have got. It turns out that I have 2 complete kits and a part started kit which is missing sides which I can replicate in plasticard or use as spares. Given what these normally fetch, I am taking this as a win.

Richard

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2 hours ago, gr.king said:

That's an astonishingly cheap purchase by usual eBay D&S standards!

I know! I could not believe my speculative bid even had a chance. I told my wife who was impressed with how big a deal it was, but still sees it as 30pds spent. It works the other way around for clothes shopping. 
richard 

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So little to see, but I think it means the body is finished.

7F0716DA-2D34-48F8-AE6F-86217A8ACDA4.jpeg.1e3d2281ad4298e7067141d459068700.jpeg

Photo is so I can also check if the window bar is level. Soldering before finishing seems more secure to me, though others seem to fit them afterwards.
this one is different to the rest as it came as a body partly finished by John quick to help get me started with the gcr. A most kind and generous man.

richard 

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To the roof. First one marked up and drilled. 
B090E24A-1BF0-40B4-A2D1-6F030346CEC4.jpeg.2057f020b01809b794c9e98dde20fdfd.jpeg

the question is whether to fit the roof furniture and then solder the roof on to the body. White metal before brass, or to solder the roof on and then fit the vents etc. 

I am thinking fit roof first and then struggle to fit the vents from the inside as then they will not be damaged on the clean up of the roof join. Unless someone says this a fatal mistake based on their experience.

richard 

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Question time.

gas pipes. I can see the run on the roof and it logically goes between the two runs of gas lamps. 
question: I am assuming it runs down the end, but only one end? Which one? The passenger end? Therefore assume that the gas pipe stops at the last lamp or not? I ask as there are very few images showing the roofs of carriages in the gas lit era, and few of them are clear enough to make out what is going on with a pipe.
C5234FDD-289D-4DAF-B9E9-FD38A08DAC17.jpeg.a03b139f9c9fd1a0d678c2640656247a.jpeg

here is as far as I have got with the layout of the pipe.

14 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

I've always soldered roofs on then attached the roof fittings with cyano.  Scroll down to the foot of this post.

 

Jim

thanks for this, I did look and liked your approach, but will modify it to try and solder the metal from the inside as I prefer that for metalwork as it is more secure. There is also more room in 4mm to get an iron and fingers into the carriage body.

Richard 

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1 hour ago, richard i said:

question: I am assuming it runs down the end, but only one end? Which one? The passenger end? Therefore assume that the gas pipe stops at the last lamp or not? I ask as there are very few images showing the roofs of carriages in the gas lit era, and few of them are clear enough to make out what is going on with a pipe.

I can't comment on GCR carriages, but on gas lit CR brake thirds the pipe ran down to the control box on the non-brake end.  There would be a branch off the main pipe to each lamp and yes, it would stop at the last lamp at the other end.

 

Jim

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2 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

I can't comment on GCR carriages, but on gas lit CR brake thirds the pipe ran down to the control box on the non-brake end.  There would be a branch off the main pipe to each lamp and yes, it would stop at the last lamp at the other end.

 

Jim

Jim as always a fount of knowledge.

I have found this picture which seems to support your supposition about the GCR.
BE7925E0-534A-4D60-B2F4-443EF7D6B794.jpeg.b294c0b4d505b6127d53f965d57e25bc.jpeg

Do you have any pictures/ dimensions of a control box on the end? Was it visible or underneath?

many thanks

richard 

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3 hours ago, richard i said:

Do you have any pictures/ dimensions of a control box on the end? Was it visible or underneath?

Richard, below is a scan from Mike Willams' book on CR carriages showing the ends of 45 and 50 ft carriages.1360180244_CR45ft50ftcarriageends.jpg.6e99cbd55512f17d69b7a2fc36361736.jpg

 

G is the non-brake end of a brake third, H is the brake end and I is the end of a non-brake vehicle.  The gas control box is the item on the beading 2 from the right of centre on G and dotted on I.  The horizontal lever has a handle at each end to allow the staff to turn the gas on.  the item across the top is the communication chord indicator which had paddle shaped ends.  These lay horizontal in the normal position, but if the chord was pulled in that carriage they turned through 90° so that the paddle could be seen when looking along the train, thus indicating where the chord had been pulled.  Both fittings were at the same (non-brake) end of a brake vehicle, but at opposite ends on others.

 

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the control box

 

Jim

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Thank you this is useful. I am now going to look for it in pictures, it may be lower to allow the cross piece to be accesses under the corridor connectors. I have seven to build so that can be delayed without holding up the build whilst I look for details of it. I have to say the ends have always appeared clutter free to me up to now. I must look harder.

richard

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The ugly duckling 

4539504E-BEE5-43F2-8E40-09467730EB62.jpeg.7a2478986b666b6bbe7490898e27773d.jpeg

it is the full first. For some reason if I make a mistake on the set, it is this one which I make it on. Hopefully green putty will hide a lot of the sins on the finished model.

it also explains why I am not a professional builder as I lack the consistency needed to build for a living. That and many other reasons: build too slowly, not good enough standard, not known enough to have a client base....etc. 

richard 

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The first of the thirds done. Pretty happy on location of vents and gas lamps on this one.

FFE45AB4-B78F-40BE-A8CC-77ED5755EA66.jpeg.2e7c1de20477ac080b9bcf3a3e8e3d98.jpeg

the buffet carriage. Now on this one I had my initial thoughts and Nigel Yule drawing, ( thanks TBG) and they did not match, so I went back to the photos, both outside and inside the carriage. So far I have decided I was wrong about the buffet end and Nigel is right. So I made it like this which matches the Yule drawing. 

8A0506BE-13A6-424E-A806-6313E957016A.jpeg.c1819c43b2d0661ad90d34e0543ed607.jpeg

however I have left it open as to whether it had a gas lamp over the end of the corridor like the brake carriages did or not like the full corridor stock. My eyes seem to see one in the photo of it ex works. Most lamps are the other side so you only see the top, but this one is shown more completely. Also the vents(?) about the middle which look like two circular disks one above the other. They seem over the kitchen so would that have a beefed up ventilation system. Most later kitchen stock seems to have some sort of more substantial vents. Or are they all part of the building behind? 
C44CA51F-A204-47B8-9788-15DBBB594895.jpeg.aca3799c05366624fcaeb99627838979.jpeg
any thoughts welcome.

many thanks

richard

 

 

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9 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

There's a lotta, lotta fittings on these roofs!!

 

Jim

Yes! They even had two vents per toilet which gives you some idea how smelly they thought their customers might be, or how much they wanted to make it agreeable for the next person visiting the lavatory. 
they were trying to sell the service on comfort so perhaps the extra gas lamps was to make it as light as possible and the extra vents were to make it feel fresh, because previously (4 wheelers) had only had vents on the smoking compartments. Apparently non-smokers do not smell as much/ need as much fresh air.
richard

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More roof fittings!

the first carriage fitted with the gas pipe run.

41AAA05D-951A-4A50-BF13-A7B2E665919F.jpeg.c1312ea602eadec4480f547b38e198eb.jpeg

I do wonder if I bite off more than I can chew? I have tried to fit the pipes from the main gas pipe to each individual lamp. It takes a lot of cleaning up of stray solder and one has disappeared already. Is it worth it? I know it is there but they are barely visible except for the ones over the brake end. However I have fitted the internal bracing in the fogman’s hut even though it is tipped over in the unused position and so that is not visible. 
every time I do something I feel it must be near the end of construction and then I remember something else.

still to do, complete list ( I think) : water tank fillers, corridor connectors, both in plastic/ paper so will be last and rain strips. 
anything I have missed?

sorry not an exciting progress shot and rather more of a ramble,

A happy new year to one and all,

richard 

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You are going to have to put up with un exciting posts. 
carriage three the luggage composite. 
9A1CC77B-2633-45E7-9E06-9119CE1678BB.jpeg.d4ca94277876df81126f9baf153ec3ed.jpeg

I have not joined the main pipe run to each lamp except the one for the luggage compartment. Laziness? Will it be noticed as the train goes past? It certainly means it looks neater as less joins were needed. however, under that logic no carriage would ever be built as no joins, no messiness.

richard 

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