Dettingen GCR might have been layout

[billbedford]

Of course, as with most borderline/illegal activities, it also depends on how easily you get found out.

 

 

Oh good grief, here we go again.... 

 

It would be a good idea if people learnt the difference between civil and criminal law (i.e. between what is unlawful and illegal) before posting.  Copyright law in the UK gives the holder of the copyright the right to sue to recover any loss brought about by the infringement of the said copyright. That is all. For most of the stuff we are talking about the costs of bringing such a case will massively outweight any likely restitution.

 

And remember all models are copies. As models approach being perfect copies they will tend to be indistinguishable for one another.

 

The above applies to the UK, what the law says in other countries may be different.

Edited November 2, 2016 by billbedford

[gr.king]

If the true position is that but for the resin moulding option you would not have bothered to produce multiple hopper wagon models because the repeated modification of identical kits would simply have been too tedious, difficult and time consuming, then in fact the original manufacturer has not lost any sales. An intriguing point for consideration in any legal contest that might arise.

 

In the scheme of life this debate is all far too insignificant and not a good use of time. I've just had a similar wasteful contest lasting several irritating months regarding a piece of copyright law completely unconnected with model railways, all prompted by a firm of get-rich-quick opportunists trying to deceive or if necessary force ordinary people into buying expensive "licences" to make innocent, minimal use of copyright material - material which has already had licence fees paid on it by the original purchaser and by an intermediate handler. I have not had to pay a penny and those who would like to make money from me for nothing have had to agree to give up chasing me...

 

If you make something useful or attractive, others are likely to copy or emulate it in at least one small way or another. It is reality. Those who think they can preserve total rights to their ideas or products, for ever, are not living in the real world.

 

Sorry - distinctly "off" the main topic!

[richard i]

Oh good grief, here we go again.... 

 

It would be a good idea if people learnt the difference between civil and criminal law (i.e. between what is unlawful and illegal) before posting.  Copyright law in the UK gives the holder of the copyright the right to sue to recover any loss brought about by the infringement of the said copyright. That is all. For most of the stuff we are talking about the costs of bringing such a case will massively outweight any likely restitution.

 

And remember all models are copies. As models approach being perfect copies they will tend to be indistinguishable for one another.

 

The above applies to the UK, what the law says in other countries may be different.

And the inference that my models might approach being perfect copies is quite flattering. They are not up to your standards Bill. I do get your points, if I were doing it, it would be as an exercise in can I so I would not seek to make money out of it. With a first attempt I would be impressed if I could get it to come out of a mould and be of a quality where even one person would consider having it. To clear up this is all hypothetical. Besides because of this parkside have got two kit sales out of me and potentially a third, and if I was not trying to convert it or experiment they would have had none. This might be why GBL were not chased down by Hornby if they thought GBL locos were copies because for every loco brought, Hornby potentially sold a chassis to power it.

I am intrigued now where supplier ends and copying begins because a car maker uses screws to make the car adds bits to them and sells it on. I suppose as long as the kit moulds require you to buy a parkside wagon it is supplier?

This aside be it this or another project I do want to learn to cast.

Richard

[richard i]

Transfers on

The GWR wagon is fox transfers all the way, they are new and even better than I remembered.

The private owner is another matter. It is a parkside kit so UK named for a friend without whose hep the layout would not have got off the ground. The letters are from a set of usa transfers. Why the company needs grain who knows, but clearly they have at least 100 wagons because this is 065 from a tamyia set of decals. The lettering come from transfers left over from an Italian companies printing of German instructions for a usa made MLRS artillery piece. I wanted it to look like there are instructions, the non pool, return to owner etc , look closely it starts with achtung but at two feet I certainly can not tell that. I then used a black marker pen to shade in the large letters. It was fun doing/ planning.

It is also the reason not to throw away surplus transfers.

Richard

[Edwardian]

look closely it starts with achtung

 

superb!

[richard i]

superb!

I really need a better picture, it was the best my ipad could do in the half light this morning

Richard

[Poggy1165]

Many PO wagon operators numbered their wagons in a way that suggested they had far more wagons than they had. So Mr Bell could have just had this one wagon and chosen to number it 65.

 

For some strange reason some owners only used even numbers, or only odd ones. It didn't really matter from an operational point of view, as it was just a number to refer to, if, for example it needed repair and the owner had to be advised that it was stopped, say at Bloggins Sidings, GNR, near Bradford.

[richard i]

Better up close shots

The GWR van, and breaking cover the GWR open. Then mr bell's grain wagon, probably still can not see the achtung on the transfer.

The large letters on the open really were a fiddle to get over the iron work. I tried decal soft but must be doing something wrong as it just did not make the transfers sit down on the wagon. Solutions?

Richard

[Edwardian]

Better up close shots

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

The GWR van, and breaking cover the GWR open. Then mr bell's grain wagon, probably still can not see the achtung on the transfer.

The large letters on the open really were a fiddle to get over the iron work. I tried decal soft but must be doing something wrong as it just did not make the transfers sit down on the wagon. Solutions?

Richard

 

Fortunately I can't see the 'achtung', but it is great fun to know it's there!

 

I hope my wagons turn out as well-built and crisply finished as yours.  The hand shading on 'BELL' is very effective.

 

EDIT: Good choice of colour on the grain wagon, too.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Edwardian

[ChrisN]

Richard,

The vans are looking good.  It always amazes me how everyone else does things so quickly and so well.  My local coal yard will have a number on its PO wagon of 1880.  He does not have 1879 other wagons as it will be the only one.  That was the year it was made in, apparently a usual trick of small PO wagon owners to increase their reputation.

 

Question.  Your 4 wheel coaches, where did you get the fittings from?  I have looked back but cannot find the information.  I have a coach to make from a Silhouette cut of an MSLR six wheel composite  coach and it would be nice to get the right fittings for it.

 

Thank you.

[Caley Jim]

I have to say that I've never seen a PO wagon where the number started with a leading 0. Has anyone else seen a precedent for this?

 

Jim

Edited November 5, 2016 by Caley Jim

[richard i]

Richard,

The vans are looking good.  It always amazes me how everyone else does things so quickly and so well.  My local coal yard will have a number on its PO wagon of 1880.  He does not have 1879 other wagons as it will be the only one.  That was the year it was made in, apparently a usual trick of small PO wagon owners to increase their reputation.

 

Question.  Your 4 wheel coaches, where did you get the fittings from?  I have looked back but cannot find the information.  I have a coach to make from a Silhouette cut of an MSLR six wheel composite  coach and it would be nice to get the right fittings for it.

 

Thank you.

The coaches are from bill's Mousa models site, there is a link to his shape ways shop which might have the sprue of 3d print of the bits. If not he might do a special, though I would not want to put words in his mouth. Some parts are on the etch like the end of the gas cylinder, though you source your own tube. I can really recommend his kit I have only ever found it first rate.

Richard

[richard i]

I have to say that I've never seen a PO wagon where the number started with a leading 0. Has anyone else seen a precedent for this?

Jim

Just having fun, as the company never existed I was having fun with the wagon. I suppose it is my take on the wagon with an alien in it that some send round their layouts at exhibitions. Like my humour I wanted my fun wagon to be more subtle in its "errors" than having an alien. Hence the German instructions. I enjoy it more when most miss it but one person looks up and grins and says" I see what you have done there.

If there is a precedent I will be delighted, if not it will join the things to spot from how many will tell me Bell is missing the 's etc.

Richard

[Edwardian]

I have to say that I've never seen a PO wagon where the number started with a leading 0. Has anyone else seen a precedent for this?

 

Jim

 

Clearly at some point it has been placed on the duplicate list!

[Caley Jim]

Just having fun, as the company never existed I was having fun with the wagon. .........

 

I had a bit of fun with some of my PO wagons too.  Following the example of the late David Jenkinson, I have lettered them for fictional companies owned by friends in the modelling fraternity.  This one might ring a bell with some of you.

 

 

Also some named after members of our Area group.

 

 

They are all based on the 2MM Scale Association 1887 RCH plastic body kit and etched underframe.

 

Jim

[richard i]

I had a bit of fun with some of my PO wagons too.  Following the example of the late David Jenkinson, I have lettered them for fictional companies owned by friends in the modelling fraternity.  This one might ring a bell with some of you.

 

DSCN1760.JPG

 

Also some named after members of our Area group.

 

2014-03-27-807.jpg

 

They are all based on the 2MM Scale Association 1887 RCH plastic body kit and etched underframe.

 

Jim

And then he goes and terrifies us by pointing out that sign writing which would have been impresive in 4mm is actually in 2mm how has he any eye sight left?

[Poggy1165]

I have now an objective in life, to find a PO wagon with a number beginning with '0'. I have an idea there were some, but I can offer a source off-hand. Often, for railway companies, the 0 prefix meant a hired wagon; many, many PO wagons were hired, but the '0' prefix was rare.

 

I always liked David Jenkinson's reference to a 'Shoddy Manufacturer', which can of course be taken two ways.

[Andy Hayter]

Bill Hudson's PO Wagons vol 1.  Introduction page has a picture of several PO wagons including a Butterley  No 010 [something obscured by the station canopy stanchion] 3.  In front and behind are grouping wagons from LNER and LMS, but the precendent is set.

 

Later Plate 21 shows an Acton Hall Colliery 1928 build No.  0321.

 

Volume 2 - plates 25 and 26 + text implies that Oldham Corportation Gas Dept used a leading zero as standard - but still grouping period.

 

I did not set out to answer the question, but once you find one example you just have to look for more.  Sadly no pre-grouping examples, but then most of the examples in Bill's books are grouping ones. 

[Caley Jim]

I always liked David Jenkinson's reference to a 'Shoddy Manufacturer', which can of course be taken two ways.

I have one bearing the name of a friend who repaired industrial sewing machines for a living.  His company are 'Wool and Shoddy Merchants'!

 

Jim

[Caley Jim]

And then he goes and terrifies us by pointing out that sign writing which would have been impresive in 4mm is actually in 2mm how has he any eye sight left?

Thank you  for that, Richard, but I'm afraid the gross enlargement shows how crude it really is!  

 

Jim

[richard i]

Bill Hudson's PO Wagons vol 1.  Introduction page has a picture of several PO wagons including a Butterley  No 010 [something obscured by the station canopy stanchion] 3.  In front and behind are grouping wagons from LNER and LMS, but the precendent is set.

 

Later Plate 21 shows an Acton Hall Colliery 1928 build No.  0321.

 

Volume 2 - plates 25 and 26 + text implies that Oldham Corportation Gas Dept used a leading zero as standard - but still grouping period.

 

I did not set out to answer the question, but once you find one example you just have to look for more.  Sadly no pre-grouping examples, but then most of the examples in Bill's books are grouping ones.

 

It is as if I knew, but I really didn't. I am sorry if this has created extra work for people distracting them from real modeling.

Richard

[Andy Hayter]

It is as if I knew, but I really didn't. I am sorry if this has created extra work for people distracting them from real modeling.

Richard

 

No problem.

 

At the same time I have established that 8 plank 12 t mineral wagons were around as early as 1912 - so maybe I can salvage some of the ones I was going to consign to the LNER pile.  Certainly not time wasted.

[richard i]

Sides and ends on

Now the handrails and wheel on the side.

Richard

[richard i]

I found this whilst surfing the web, I like the fact that someone has had a go at a GCR subject, but I do not recall a green for the carriage colour.

If the colorist objects to this being here then I will happily take it down.

If only it could be finished off in the correct colours, but I do not know how.

Richard

[BG John]

I found this whilst surfing the web, I like the fact that someone has had a go at a GCR subject, but I do not recall a green for the carriage colour.

image.jpg

If the colorist objects to this being here then I will happily take it down.

If only it could be finished off in the correct colours, but I do not know how.

Richard

I know how, but don't have the skill to do it yet! These instructions are for GIMP. I'm sure there are similar pages for Photoshop if that's what you use.

 

http://www.digitalphotoguide.net/post-production/colorize-black-and-white-photo-gimp/

https://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Selective_Color/

http://emptyeasel.com/2008/10/24/how-to-digitally-color-a-black-white-photograph-in-gimp/

http://www.tutorialgeek.net/2012/11/use-gimp-to-create-color-photos-from.html