Dettingen GCR might have been layout

[James Harrison]

5 days from cutting metal to painting the bufferbeam.  During a bout of 'flu, if I remember right from one of his books. 

[richard i]

1 hour ago, James Harrison said:

5 days from cutting metal to painting the bufferbeam.  During a bout of 'flu, if I remember right from one of his books. 

That does not make me feel any better. I won’t even make the bogie in 5 days. 
he is an inspiration.

richard

[jimwal]

You're getting there Richard. Slow progress is better than no progress.

 

What am I doing you may ask? Relaying bullhead main line track with flat bottom, recycling the bullhead for sidings and adding points to a previously pointless layout.

Edited June 13, 2020 by jimwal
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[richard i]

8 hours ago, jimwal said:

You're getting there Richard. Slow progress is better than no progress.

 

What am I doing you may ask? Relaying bullhead main line track with flat bottom, recycling the bullhead for sidings and adding points to a previously pointless layout.

You still need to build the bridge for that bus to cross the lines on.

looks like you have plenty to keep you going there.

stay safe

richard 

[Hector Lawn]

Hi Richard, 

 

I’m surprised I haven’t come across your Dettingen before now until you replied to my post on my own layout, it being GCR and all. I’ve just read the first 10 pages (might take me a while to read the  other 53 pages)! - and I really admire your scratchbuilding of your buildings - I wish I could get as much accuracy and detail into my 2mm buildings. I also really admire your scratchbuilding and kitbuilding of your wagons and locos. This is something I’ll have to tackle once my buildings are complete as I have a K3 kit waiting to be built onto a Farish V2 chassis for my fish train as there’s no r-t-r available.

 

I love your attention to detail and I’m flattered that you were interested enough to post on my own layout efforts. I shall read the remaining 53 pages with interest. 
 

Best regards

Hector
 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Hector Lawn
Correcting an auto-correct on the place name!

[richard i]

2 hours ago, Hector Lawn said:

Hi Richard, 

 

I’m surprised I haven’t come across your Dettingen before now until you replied to my post on my own layout, it being GCR and all. I’ve just read the first 10 pages (might take me a while to read the  other 53 pages)! - and I really admire your scratchbuilding of your buildings - I wish I could get as much accuracy and detail into my 2mm buildings. I also really admire your scratchbuilding and kitbuilding of your wagons and locos. This is something I’ll have to tackle once my buildings are complete as I have a K3 kit waiting to be built onto a Farish V2 chassis for my fish train as there’s no r-t-r available.

 

I love your attention to detail and I’m flattered that you were interested enough to post on my own layout efforts. I shall read the remaining 53 pages with interest. 
 

Best regards

Hector
 

Hector,

Many thanks for your kind words. I was also part of the team which built the 4mm model of charwelton, so have studied the area closely. I did not, however, build the  station buildings for it. They were made by richard Turner, a far more skilled model maker than me. His father was responsible for the base boards. A very talented family. 
As for my modeling, I try to do my best, I hate looking at something I have just built and knowing I could have done It better. I am still learning all the time. 
Richard 

[richard i]

I told SWMBO that she had to go oooow. When I showed her these. 
first the other side

then with the bracing rods(?) fitted.

 

she did, but she also noticed, in her words that I had fitted “ bumps” on them. 
the other bits look to be quicker to make as long as I ignore the brakes as too fiddle to do. Quiet at the back I can already hear the goading to make them.

richard 

[richard i]

The cross member and spring hangers almost finished. Original up top, the home made version below. 

I will most likely have to cut the homemade version as the fold line with end having a peg stick out is probably beyond my skills with a slitting disk. I am also in the process of filing back a folding piece. Which I cannot see a way of filing the small gaps without losing the detail. 
then to build it to see if it looks like it should. I will most likely build one of the kits as a proving model. They should in theory go together. 
sparked by a conversation elsewhere. What size bolt do people use to hold bogies on with, 8ba or 10ba? I never know which is the larger of the two so not sure which size I would be getting if I ordered more.

many thanks

richard

[Caley Jim]

The higher the number, the smaller the size.  10BA are 1.8mm in diameter, 8BA 2.25mm.  Not sure what's used as a bogie pivot in 4mm - not my scale.  I used 14BA (c1mm) on my CR45ft first in 2FS.

 

Jim

[jimwal]

That is a complex looking bogie stretcher Richard! but you've managed to cut another one. The pivot holes in them look nearer 6BA. Whatever size they are they need to be fairly close fitting otherwise your coach may yaw about sideways when in operation.

 

I've used various sizes of screw, larger sizes work better with plastic floor/underframes. This is so the pivot can be fixed to the underside rather than being just loose, again to improve ride quality.

 

With your brass build soldering a screw in place with the head inside, fix any spacers underneath to get the ride height correct, add the bogies and a nut on each. Leave the nut loose from the bogie and retain it in place with a drop of glue such as UHU. This allows easy removal of the bogies should the need arise.

[Caley Jim]

Another way to secure the bogies is to solder the nut onto a piece of scrap etch. Make the length of the pivot screw such the when you screw the nut down tight the bogie can still pivot and rock. Easy to take them off and on and no need for glue.

It's also a good idea to arrange the bogie mounting such that one bogie can rock on the longitudinal axis and the other on a transverse axis. The latter then keeps the coach stable when running, while between them giving a degree of compensation. 

 

See the link in my post above for both these points. 

 

Jim 

[t-b-g]

On 13/06/2020 at 20:05, James Harrison said:

5 days from cutting metal to painting the bufferbeam.  During a bout of 'flu, if I remember right from one of his books. 

 

It was slightly longer than that but not much. He wrote that he started work one Saturday and finished the painting the following Saturday, so a whole 8 days! He was getting over the illness but still had a week left before he went back to work, so he made the most of it. The loco was Pollitt 0-6-0 tender engine, what became LNER J10 later. I think his fretsaw machine made cutting metal sheet to shape a lot quicker and less hassle than doing it by hand.

[richard i]

5 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

It was slightly longer than that but not much. He wrote that he started work one Saturday and finished the painting the following Saturday, so a whole 8 days! He was getting over the illness but still had a week left before he went back to work, so he made the most of it. The loco was Pollitt 0-6-0 tender engine, what became LNER J10 later. I think his fretsaw machine made cutting metal sheet to shape a lot quicker and less hassle than doing it by hand.

Still, a pace far faster than mine. Need to look into a fret saw if I am going to continue having to make things this way.

richard

[richard i]

17 hours ago, jimwal said:

That is a complex looking bogie stretcher Richard! but you've managed to cut another one. The pivot holes in them look nearer 6BA. Whatever size they are they need to be fairly close fitting otherwise your coach may yaw about sideways when in operation.

 

I've used various sizes of screw, larger sizes work better with plastic floor/underframes. This is so the pivot can be fixed to the underside rather than being just loose, again to improve ride quality.

 

With your brass build soldering a screw in place with the head inside, fix any spacers underneath to get the ride height correct, add the bogies and a nut on each. Leave the nut loose from the bogie and retain it in place with a drop of glue such as UHU. This allows easy removal of the bogies should the need arise.

Jim

i usually put the nut in the carriage and screw from below. I find it easier to Screw it in rather than trying to manipulate the nut between the bogie sides with my sausage like fingers. 
I will measure the hole to see which I need. 
thanks

richard 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, richard i said:

Still, a pace far faster than mine. Need to look into a fret saw if I am going to continue having to make things this way.

richard

 

If you have cut out shapes like that one without a good piercing saw, you have done very well. I wouldn't fancy it. I have an electric ne plus I have Peter Denny's old machine but I find a good blade in a hand saw plus a decent plate with a slot cut in it can make sawing metal so much easier. 

 

If you do get a piercing saw, I would recommend that you get decent blades like the Vallorbe ones sold by H S Walsh for clock making work. The ones that I have had in the past from model railway traders are very difficult to cut a straight line with. The Vallorbe ones make it easy.

[richard i]

18 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

If you have cut out shapes like that one without a good piercing saw, you have done very well. I wouldn't fancy it. I have an electric ne plus I have Peter Denny's old machine but I find a good blade in a hand saw plus a decent plate with a slot cut in it can make sawing metal so much easier. 

 

If you do get a piercing saw, I would recommend that you get decent blades like the Vallorbe ones sold by H S Walsh for clock making work. The ones that I have had in the past from model railway traders are very difficult to cut a straight line with. The Vallorbe ones make it easy.

As always sage advice. I am working with a file and a drill to create the shapes and make holes. I should up grade. 
richard 

[t-b-g]

28 minutes ago, richard i said:

As always sage advice. I am working with a file and a drill to create the shapes and make holes. I should up grade. 
richard 

 

I remember those days before I got my saw. You won't regret it when you get one. 

[billbedford]

If you do get a saw, you can solder layer of brass together and do all you need in one go. You could even solder an etched part on top to act as a template. I many ways the thicker part sandwich would be easier to cut as thicker saw blades are more robust. 

[richard i]

I decided to record this in case o these need to see how not to build a gcr Parker bogie. 

The other bogie is not an otter, the otter is a desk ornament who is overseeing all modeling which occurs. 

 

you will notice I forgot to fold down the flap. In the middle, the ends fought folding down and it snapped the sides off. Next time I will need to score the etched fold lines to make the fold easier. 
still need to work out the cross piece but I think I can see how that might work, ironically that falls apart the moment you look at it on the etch lines. 
richard

[richard i]

So I built the scratch built bogie to the same stage. 

and compared to the etched kit version. No sniggering at the back, it does not look so crude at 2 foot distance.

 

I know it is not as fine in the widths of the thinner struts, I know it does not have brakes, but I fitted the plank behind the wheels both sides, both for strength and also as that is where the brakes hang off in Andy Gibbs version so I could do the same if I decide/ work out how to make eight sets of brakes that look ok and do not send me insane. 
I had meant that I know the bogie inside out so if I see a similar/ convertible one from another company, I will jump at the chance to get them. 

Richard

[Regularity]

37 minutes ago, richard i said:

compared to the etched kit version

I had difficulty distinguishing between them: in your shoes I would be proud of the scratch-built version.

I think you are being hard on yourself.

Either that, or when you get good, we had all better give up!

[richard i]

7 hours ago, Regularity said:

I had difficulty distinguishing between them: in your shoes I would be proud of the scratch-built version.

I think you are being hard on yourself.

Either that, or when you get good, we had all better give up!

That’s kind, I always try to keep improving. I think if you look at something for a long time you see the discrepancies. Actually as soon as I posted last time I noticed the scratch built one is missing the strengthening bar at the top of each side, so that will need to be fitted. 
richard 

[richard i]

I come back to this question on the springs. 
how does this work/ go together?

i still do not see how there is a wide etch line, is the a fold over or as shown fit in the small etched hole? There are two small pieces which I assume fit to form the bottom angled end of the springs, how does it fit at the other end? I have tried to fold up one end to see if it might look right, but it does not. 
 

And what of the other rectangular piece. I thought it supported underneath but it has no hole for the bolt to go through. It has two etch lines length ways on it so I assume it forms a shallow u shape, but the instructions are unclear. Any ideas, drawings or photos of similarly fitted bogies gratefully received. I am at a loss and feel I might have to recourse to making a 3d object and casting a bunch to fit, but they would not be as crisp as being able to make this work. 
richard

[Caley Jim]

5 hours ago, richard i said:

........ I think if you look at something for a long time you see the discrepancies. 

You always know the faults in your own work.  It's only by acknowledging them to yourself that you improve.  Educationalists would call it 'reflective learning' I believe.

 

Jim

[richard i]

18 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

You always know the faults in your own work.  It's only by acknowledging them to yourself that you improve.  Educationalists would call it 'reflective learning' I believe.

 

Jim

We do, though thankfully this is my hobby so it does not come attached to a target sheet nor require purple pen to be used.

richard