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Signalling advice - BR (ex LNWR)


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Trying to work out what semaphores I need for this track plan on a fictious N gauge layout set between the West Mids and Bridgnorth. This is the ex LNWR station. Platform 1 will be served by through trains from Bridgnorth as well as terminating dmus from Dudley and beyond. Platform 2 is for trains from Dudley to Bridgnorth. The coal traffic will be shunted around the station so as to depart full / arrive empty from Bescot.

 

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Trying to work out what semaphores I need for this track plan on a fictious N gauge layout set between the West Mids and Bridgnorth. This is the ex LNWR station. Platform 1 will be served by through trains from Bridgnorth as well as terminating dmus from Dudley and beyond. Platform 2 is for trains from Dudley to Bridgnorth. The coal traffic will be shunted around the station so as to depart full / arrive empty from Bescot.

 

post-147-1265568893682_thumb.jpg

 

 

Ask the mods to move it to the right forum section as there is a whole section dedicated to signalling.

 

Do have any idea of the era you are planning to model other than BR, as many LNWR signalling plans survived after 1948, but were changed to bring them in line with group standards as equipment became life expired. It won't make a great deal of difference the signalling plan itself. but will have impact on the type of signals you use.

 

Are you planning to use catch points in your layout? As it stands it would need 3 of them

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Sorry, Oakcake, but you are perpetuating misconceptions again. Catch Points are to divert runaway wagons which break free from trains on rising gradients and run backwards, they prevent them running into a following train. What you mean are Trap Points which derail unauthorised moves from running into proper moves. Trap Points are worked from a signal box or ground frame while catch points have a point lever at the side of the track to facilitate wrong line moves. Catch points are not usually anywhere near signal boxes or stations.

 

We can now sit back and wait for posts from others who also want to perpetuate the same misconception by quoting use and practice "in some places" - I'll get me coat and tin 'at.

 

Richard

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We can now sit back and wait for posts from others who also want to perpetuate the same misconception by quoting use and practice "in some places" - I'll get me coat and tin 'at.

 

Good - make sure you tie it tight - how many times do we need to go through this discussion ???

 

The terms traps and catch, whilst technically having specific meanings, were interchangeable in many areas. I suggest you probably need to learn a bit more before posting such comments. A misconception is not the same as old time mistakes and colloquial usage :rolleyes: - of course you may well be an expert in every signal district that has ever existed.

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I have been professionally involved in some aspect or another of railway operations/signalling/operational safety for roundly 40 years. I found long ago that some railway staff could be very slack in their use of terminology; I also found that it could be confusing and sometimes dangerous. So, just about as long ago - and no small thanks I suppose to working closely with a number of District and Chief Signalling Inspectors - I took the course that correct use of terminology was probably a lot safer than any alternatives. That is a principle I still apply as, among others, the Railway Inspectorate - not unreasonably - prefer it and all safety documentation (and I still write the stuff for 1:1 scale 'layouts') would be in a tangle, if not actually illegal, without such a discipline.

 

So my mind is well and truly set - and as it happens is in line with what has been standard in British railway Rule etc Books since at least the 1930s and what I can readily trace back to 1950 in the requirements for the equipment to be installed on British standard gauge railways. So if it's good enough for them as sets the rules (although I did used to be one of them so will admit to a little bias :) ) it's good enough for me because whatever it might be called in a civil engineer's drawing office or in 'British Railway Track' the stuff is actually installed to safeguard operations.

 

For professional reasons, basically a matter of clarity in operational safety where getting in wrong can alas sometimes result in deaths, I use the correct terms for trap and catch points and I think it can be confusing to do otherwise.

 

As far as the above posts are concerned it might be worthwhile to point out that catch points could be found not only near but sometimes worked by a signal box although they did indeed still serve the purpose of catching vehicles running away in the wrong direction Indeed the GWR was rather fond of something called a 'spring slotted catchpoint' which had some rather useful advantages in complex track layouts.

 

Back to this location - yes it lacks some trap points; it would help enormously (because of changes made down the years) to know the era in which it is set. But basically the trailing points in the running lines need to be protected by a stop signal and any diverging facing points need to be signalled to reflect the fact that a train could be routed to more than one destination and have a signal arm for that route. Ground signals need to be provided at trailing points including the exit from sidings but their form will depend on era. I trust that this helps

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Catch/trap points is very much an inter-changable term amongst railway men and very few have a total understanding of the term anymore, unless you manage to run your train (or pushed) through a set of traps.

 

I have got used to playing models and haven't been about full size railway engineering installation for a few years (unless the Festiniog count as full size)

 

The issue is not helped by PECO who use the term Catch points for their SL-184&SL-185 which could actually be used only as trap points as have you tried to run over them when the switch is in the open position going the trailing/right direction (or is that the wrong direction) and not end up the ballast???

I shall from now revert to the proper S&T ways and use the term 'traps' as per good book.

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