Black Friday Sale

[Budgie]

I think they should subcontract to Hattons and Kernow.

[JohnMartin90125]

I think they should subcontract to Hattons and Kernow.

 

My cat would have done a better job if she was a subcontractor.  At least with the crap she comes out with is genuine.

 

I dare all the model railway magazines to publish something in their news sections about customers being treated so badly by Hornby over Black Friday.  The BS I received when I tackled Hornby manager Mark Lodge over this made my blood boil further.  Just how cozy are the magazines to the brands anyway?  This was on MREMAG last week.

 

For each of us who have been pissed off (to put it midly) over the unacceptable conduct of Hornby, how many others do not know about or use this forum who have been subject to the same shoddy treatment that we have?  I doubt it is isolated to just us few folk.

[New Haven Neil]

I think they should subcontract to Hattons and Kernow.

 

I did put a disagree in there, but took it out to be fair to you - I'd just like to add my comment was personal, as was the parcel of coaches I ordered, and nothing to do with where I work.  Wherever it came from, 17 days turn-around is not acceptable, especially after an e mail from them to apologise for the service taking 5 days.  Not another 12.

 

To run a successful e-business, you need the infrastructure to support it - stock control, packaging, two way communication.......etc.... Kernow, Hattons, many others and yes Trackshack have this, whereas it would appear Hornby do not.  I was very disappointed at the delay, and in fact had basically given up on it arriving at all. 

 

I will refrain from commenting from a dealer point of view, it's all been said before on this thread, other than to say I'd love them to get their act together.

[PhilJ W]

I wonder if one of the TV consumer programs or a national newspaper is going to pick this up.

[black and decker boy]

I wonder if one of the TV consumer programs or a national newspaper is going to pick this up.

Don't see why give the reported problems by all of the couriers, M&S new distribution centre collapsing in a heap (I have had a few consignments delayed or sent in drips).

 

For the record my Black Friday Hornby purchases arrived after 2 days so they haven't got it all wrong. Some of my Amazon purchases have been delayed by a week beyond the original date

[Ian Hargrave]

Don't see why give the reported problems by all of the couriers, M&S new distribution centre collapsing in a heap (I have had a few consignments delayed or sent in drips).

For the record my Black Friday Hornby purchases arrived after 2 days so they haven't got it all wrong. Some of my Amazon purchases have been delayed by a week beyond the original date

Aren't you the lucky boy then ?

[New Haven Neil]

Yes, I think he was!

 

A good comment though, that it isn't just Hornby with problems. I wonder if is this because of years of business practices cutting everything to the bone, then a bit more?  Eventually there is no room for more 'efficiencies' (copyright any business bullsh*t book) before collapse sets in.  I should know, I used to be a manager in the NHS......good riddance to that job.

[PCW]

My cat would have done a better job if she was a subcontractor.  At least with the crap she comes out with is genuine.

 

I dare all the model railway magazines to publish something in their news sections about customers being treated so badly by Hornby over Black Friday.  The BS I received when I tackled Hornby manager Mark Lodge over this made my blood boil further.  Just how cozy are the magazines to the brands anyway?  This was on MREMAG last week.

 

For each of us who have been pissed off (to put it midly) over the unacceptable conduct of Hornby, how many others do not know about or use this forum who have been subject to the same shoddy treatment that we have?  I doubt it is isolated to just us few folk.

Thanks John, you and your cat really got me laughing, very funny but in a sad disbelieving sort of a way.

 

You raise a good point about how many others have experienced terrible service, or indeed perhaps brilliant service, who knows? This is why a properly constructed, unbiased and uneditable customer feedback facility should be on all e-commerce websites. If the service is good customers will happily post messages of support, this is invaluable to other customers thinking of making a purchase. If the service is bad the feedback will be bad, and again this is invaluable to prospective new customers, unless of course the sellers decides to hide and removes the feedback facility!

 

So, perhaps the forum members should challenge all sellers to build a proper feedback system into their website, lets then see what folk really think, a lot of it may be better than you think, but there again maybe not, who knows?

 

And finally if a seller refuses to put such a feedback facility in place thye should be asked to publicly state why not! Lack of moral fiber springs to mind?

[JohnMartin90125]

Thanks John, you and your cat really got me laughing, very funny but in a sad disbelieving sort of a way.

 

You raise a good point about how many others have experienced terrible service, or indeed perhaps brilliant service, who knows? This is why a properly constructed, unbiased and uneditable customer feedback facility should be on all e-commerce websites. If the service is good customers will happily post messages of support, this is invaluable to other customers thinking of making a purchase. If the service is bad the feedback will be bad, and again this is invaluable to prospective new customers, unless of course the sellers decides to hide and removes the feedback facility!

 

So, perhaps the forum members should challenge all sellers to build a proper feedback system into their website, lets then see what folk really think, a lot of it may be better than you think, but there again maybe not, who knows?

 

And finally if a seller refuses to put such a feedback facility in place thye should be asked to publicly state why not! Lack of moral fiber springs to mind?

 

I did ask my cat earlier if she wanted to consider it but she just stuck her head back in the bowl.  Work for Hornby or eat roast beef?  I think she made her mind up.

 

Seriously though.  You raise some very valid points with regards to feedback.  The first thing that came to mind was that if each company did have a customer feedback thing, there would be that great annoyance of those damned e-mails from third parties demanding and harassing the customer into that you never gave consent to having and using personal information (got such a thing in my inbox this evening following an order with BBC Shop and I was angered when I saw it - Section 55 Breech of The Data Protection Act 1998, reckless use yada yada yada).

 

The second thing that came to mind was the recent news piece where a hotel fined a couple who gave them a negative review £100 for their comments (I beleive this to be coercive control, something else that is in the news this week).

 

On the subject of feedback there is feedback abuse and extortion.  A dubious eBay seller whom received negative feedback from me tried to bribe me to remove it (then again, eBay is not what I would call a reputable organisation anyway so par for the course for them).  Then there are those who, as happened to me in the past encounter extortion such as "give me this or I'll give you negative feedback" (I sold a split packet of leftover Hornby wheels years ago, including the obvious quantity stated and photograph stated but the b****** was a crook and demanded that I send him the whole ten, as anyonewho sells on eBay, you have no rights whatsoever in reality.  Maybe I'm analysing things too much. Then there are companies such as Square Trade who (don't know if they still do) charge vast amounts of money under the premise to get unfair feedback removed from eBay profiles and no other company can offer a rival service because of bribes, backhanders and affiliation payments.  So many things to consider.  The more I think about it, the more undecided I become about the feedback thing.

 

Personally, maybe it is because of my condition, I want as little contact with companies as possible and as little interaction with them as possible!

[black and decker boy]

Even the experienced and reputable are struggling:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30574931

[YK 50A]

I take it that you will be taking the matter up with Hornby as the goods are 'not as described'. Don't forget to mention Trading Standards if you do so.

 

Hi, yes, I emailed them and again that I want a refund and not an exchange on the signal box as I have found a 'new' one locally.  I have to drive to Leeds and back (65 miles?) for it and it's a few quid more expensive.  I wouldn't have been in such a rush if they had fulfilled their order when they said they would.  I got the obligatory auto responses this morning: 'For all other enquiries we normally endeavour to reply within five working days. However we are currently experiencing longer response times for which we do apologise in advance. We are working to return to our normal service levels as quickly as possible and thank you for your patience at this time.'  Which is all well and good other than even 5 days is unacceptable, that they have got my money and have had it for 3 weeks and it's Christmas Day on Thursday!  We are lucky, my children will be having a good Christmas, but what if you're a parent spending the only few quid you have?  I've tried calling Hornby a few times today to tear some poor soul a new arse hole, but they are constantly engaged.

 

Even the experienced and reputable are struggling:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30574931

 

Well yes, as I have written a couple of times, human error and genuine mistakes I can cope with.  Hornby have been both unethical and misleading.

 

Alun

[JohnMartin90125]

Even the experienced and reputable are struggling:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30574931

 

Always trying to do things on the cheap without having the proper infrastructure in place.  As always, it's the customer who suffers from deliberately poor customer service on top of the wrongdoing and other failures of the company.  Things can go wrong, of course, have worked in warehousing and goods in and out for long enough to know about those sides of things - maybe I have a built in BS detector?

 

With all the name changes that go on, who are White Arrow now known as, did they turn into Home Delivery Network before HDN before becoming Yodel?  Could tell you all lots about the White Arrow way of doing things back in the day.

 

 

On the subject of Hornby's top man, wasn't he once at the helm of Dixons/Curry's-PC World?  They were always being featured onconsumer rights programs like Watchdog and are seemingly never out of Computer Active's consumer gripes page for s**ty treatment of customers (had a good laugh at PC World's expence some years ago after I got judgement against them, as the judge told them to pay up immediately, outside the court room I held my hand out and said loudly "pay up like the judge told you, you naughty boy".  Very satisfying indeed.)

 

Hornby now refer to themselves as "the brand" and is that all they care about?  The brand is mud here and I guess in several other households and businesses as well.

[YK 50A]

I note that on the Hornby forum it states as part of the rules: 'All Customer Care enquiries should be directed to Hornby Customer Care'.

 

Customer Care have lied, don't respond to emails and are constantly engaged, so in an effort to elicit a response, I have posted here.

 

As I don't expect to hear anything, I'm going to forget about it a for a few days and enjoy our Christmas.

 

Alun

[New Haven Neil]

Thanks John, you and your cat really got me laughing, very funny but in a sad disbelieving sort of a way.

 

You raise a good point about how many others have experienced terrible service, or indeed perhaps brilliant service, who knows? This is why a properly constructed, unbiased and uneditable customer feedback facility should be on all e-commerce websites. If the service is good customers will happily post messages of support, this is invaluable to other customers thinking of making a purchase. If the service is bad the feedback will be bad, and again this is invaluable to prospective new customers, unless of course the sellers decides to hide and removes the feedback facility!

 

So, perhaps the forum members should challenge all sellers to build a proper feedback system into their website, lets then see what folk really think, a lot of it may be better than you think, but there again maybe not, who knows?

 

And finally if a seller refuses to put such a feedback facility in place thye should be asked to publicly state why not! Lack of moral fiber springs to mind?

 

That is exactly why we have 'feefo' feedback at Trackshack.  Currently 100%.  'nuff said.

[JohnMartin90125]

That is exactly why we have 'feefo' feedback at Trackshack.  Currently 100%.  'nuff said.

 

The problem I have with this sort of thing is that several companies give personal information to third party firms like feefo WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE CUSTOMER.  The Data Protection Act 1998 clearly applies but is frequently broken by firms.

 

I hate feefo sending me demands for feedback when I buy anything.  It makes me very angry indeed.  It is a form of spam and I find it equally unwelcome.  Maybe I'm old fashioned but I value my privacy a great deal.

 

Not everyone wants this sort of thing being e-mailed to them.  If I want something, say a DVD from Brand A who uses feefo and Brand B who doesn't, Brand B gets my custom.

[Guest]

Apologies if I'm missing the point here but I don't understand all the anxiety about "feedback". Leave feedback if you want to, don't if you er... don't. As far as I'm aware, it's not compulsory... Doesn't seem too difficult. If you receive an email reminding you to leave feedback, and that bothers you, just ignore it? I tend to reserve anger for slightly more important things in life.

[PCW]

Terrible delivery timescales and non existent customer support are symptoms of a bad illness. The illness is very poor decision making. lets see if we can follow the Hornby logic;

 

1. hey, sometimes we get more stuff in stock than we need, lets have a clearance sale and turn some stuff back into cash.

 

2. Yep, sounds a good idea, when shall we do it?

 

3. Oh, I'm not sure, a big hyped up sale will put  big spike in the workload for our fulfillment facility, and lots more work for customer services.

 

4. OK, well, lets plan this carefully, chose a quiet time like we used to do in January.

 

5. I can think of a better time, how about doing the big sale that will cause lots of extra work on the one part of the year we will be really quiet, you know, like the last payday before Christmas..........

 

 

Is it just me or was this decision just absolutely terrible, and the consequences very easily foreseeable?

 

Were Hornby really that desperate for cash to meet year end targets that they knowingly delivered a terrible customer experience just to grab the cash? I say knowingly because surely a moments thought by any sane logistics person would have flagged up the potential for disaster?

[JohnMartin90125]

Apologies if I'm missing the point here but I don't understand all the anxiety about "feedback". Leave feedback if you want to, don't if you er... don't. As far as I'm aware, it's not compulsory... Doesn't seem too difficult. If you receive an email reminding you to leave feedback, and that bothers you, just ignore it? I tend to reserve anger for slightly more important things in life.

 

It's the casual disregard of the privacy of the individual.  Why not ask at the checkout if they want their personal information divulged to third parties and explain why they want to give the data out?  Internet privacy is the issue.  Spam is bad news.  Some may think spam is just a pain in the rear end, others take a different view.  Who knows where your personal information will end up?  Sites get hacked, yada yada yada.

 

The effects on those with certain health issues means it has more of an impact when things happen to them that shouldn't happen to them, it is mentioned in an earlier part of this thread. It's why I'm writing in detail about the subject (might do a blog about it).

 

Anyway, let's get back to Hornby matters for Black Friday!

 

 

 

Terrible delivery timescales and non existent customer support are symptoms of a bad illness. The illness is very poor decision making. lets see if we can follow the Hornby logic;

 

1. hey, sometimes we get more stuff in stock than we need, lets have a clearance sale and turn some stuff back into cash.

 

2. Yep, sounds a good idea, when shall we do it?

 

3. Oh, I'm not sure, a big hyped up sale will put  big spike in the workload for our fulfillment facility, and lots more work for customer services.

 

4. OK, well, lets plan this carefully, chose a quiet time like we used to do in January.

 

5. I can think of a better time, how about doing the big sale that will cause lots of extra work on the one part of the year we will be really quiet, you know, like the last payday before Christmas..........

 

 

Is it just me or was this decision just absolutely terrible, and the consequences very easily foreseeable?

 

Were Hornby really that desperate for cash to meet year end targets that they knowingly delivered a terrible customer experience just to grab the cash? I say knowingly because surely a moments thought by any sane logistics person would have flagged up the potential for disaster?

 

Interesting analysis.  I wonder if anyone else thoght disease instead of illness!

 

For all the problems with Hornby over recent years, matters with Sanda Kan and so on, are things worse now under the new CEO?  How long has the new CEO had in charge now - and how much can the problems be put down to him, I wonder?  Had he been a football manager, he may well have been sacked long ago.  Probably.  Whilst some may have said things in anger and then calmed down, how many people will actually not shop with Hornby again over their handling of Black Friday?  People have also stated, myself being one of them, that they won't renew club subs either so they have done a lot of harm to customers who have been loyal to the brand.

[Guest CPRAIL3000]

My order is now 2 weeks old and nothing.  Still shown as processing on my Hornby Account.  Emailed them yesterday.  It didn't take long to charge my credit card!!  After having a Class 31 with chassis failure with them for over 18 months I have pretty low expectations.  Hornby seem to be in a shambles at the moment.  This is the first company ever that I feel sorry for the shareholders.

Arrived after 21 days.  Order complete.  At least that's the Hornby experience over!!  "For good"

[GWRtrainman]

It seems to me there is one person behind lots of bad decisions at Hornby.

The well named Sales and Marketing Brand Director, Nat Southworth.

 

Black Friday sale fulfilment - that's got to fall under Sales

The week long sale and it's timing - Marketing

The 3 day delivery promise and the weeks of waiting - Marketing

 

Plus:

The replies to our questions - His personal replies

 

In the past:

The new sales terms for retailers (which they forgot to write in full for 2 months) - Sales

The lack of product in the UK this year - Sales

Exeter - Sales

 

And the big one which triggered my sale of Hornby Shares

The Olympics - which was to add Millions and lasting benefit to the business - Sales and Marketing.

 

Plus I seem to remember when Nat joined from Asda wasn't he named 'Olympic Delivery manager' or something.... he seems to have very good sloping shoulders:

http://www.toynews-online.biz/news/read/Hornby-appoints-london-2012-project-director/036354

[45568]

I think I can now safely claim the prize! Order received and charged November 21st, still not arrived today December 23rd. email to Hornby December 5th,. still not answered beyond the auto response!

 Yes, I am in Australia, no I am not a happy camper!

Happy Xmas from Oz,31C at the mo,

Peter C.

[JohnMartin90125]

It seems to me there is one person behind lots of bad decisions at Hornby.

The well named Sales and Marketing Brand Director, Nat Southworth.

 

Black Friday sale fulfilment - that's got to fall under Sales

The week long sale and it's timing - Marketing

The 3 day delivery promise and the weeks of waiting - Marketing

 

Plus:

The replies to our questions - His personal replies

 

In the past:

The new sales terms for retailers (which they forgot to write in full for 2 months) - Sales

The lack of product in the UK this year - Sales

Exeter - Sales

 

And the big one which triggered my sale of Hornby Shares

The Olympics - which was to add Millions and lasting benefit to the business - Sales and Marketing.

 

Plus I seem to remember when Nat joined from Asda wasn't he named 'Olympic Delivery manager' or something.... he seems to have very good sloping shoulders:

http://www.toynews-online.biz/news/read/Hornby-appoints-london-2012-project-director/036354

 

 

 

Not one hundred per cent sure about this but wasn't one problem with the Olympic stock was that there were strong sales to the trade at first but the anticipated repeat sales never happened?  Things like 50 pence pieces on a piece of card for three quid or so as well and copius amounts of tat based on a logo which many stated at the time of the logo launch was rubbish (and that was long before anything appeared).  Olympic merchandise, to me, just looked horrible in general, not just the stuff Hornby had done, but across the board.

 

When looking to see if there were any classic Dr Who DVDs in the sales earlier, I think I saw in the BBC Shop that they are still trying to get rid of Olympic merchandise, good luck there.  Why not send it to the recyling bins and get rid, warehouse space can be valuable.  If an end of line clearance specialist like Home Bargains had a long, hard time trying to get rid of Olympic stock, what luck do others have?

 

Followed the link through from the post.  Is it because I am getting older or does Nat Southworth look too young to be a manager? 

 

Reallly do feel for Peter (45568) above.

[The Stationmaster]

It seems to me there is one person behind lots of bad decisions at Hornby.

The well named Sales and Marketing Brand Director, Nat Southworth.

 

Black Friday sale fulfilment - that's got to fall under Sales

The week long sale and it's timing - Marketing

The 3 day delivery promise and the weeks of waiting - Marketing

 

Plus:

The replies to our questions - His personal replies

 

In the past:

The new sales terms for retailers (which they forgot to write in full for 2 months) - Sales

The lack of product in the UK this year - Sales

Exeter - Sales

 

And the big one which triggered my sale of Hornby Shares

The Olympics - which was to add Millions and lasting benefit to the business - Sales and Marketing.

 

Plus I seem to remember when Nat joined from Asda wasn't he named 'Olympic Delivery manager' or something.... he seems to have very good sloping shoulders:

http://www.toynews-online.biz/news/read/Hornby-appoints-london-2012-project-director/036354

Absolutely fascinating - with a knowledge like that of their organisation and division of direct managerial responsibilities I'm sure you must already be on their board.  Clearly the shareholders know a lot more than the rest of us about the detailed organisation of the company but I have to say that if I was a shareholder I'd be more interested to know why Nat Southworth was doing all this himself (and for Airfix, and Scaletric etc) instead of delegating responsibility and decisions to the various managers who report to him.

 

In an organisation some of the buck might well stop with the relevant Director but an awful lot of it shouldn't get past the responsibility of the relevant manager and, to be blunt, we don't have the first idea what targets they had been given, do we?

[black and decker boy]

Black Friday sale fulfilment - now an external company who need to be brought to account by the Sales Director

The week long sale and it's timing - Sales Director

The 3 day delivery promise and the weeks of waiting - now an external company who need to be brought to account by the Sales Director

 

The new sales terms for retailers (which they forgot to write in full for 2 months) - Sales Director (plus main board as change in strategy)

The lack of product in the UK this year - Manufacturing or Product Development Director(s). Sales can only sell what lands.

Exeter - Could be any or all of the Directors

 

 

[JohnMartin90125]

 

Black Friday sale fulfilment - now an external company who need to be brought to account by the Sales Director

The week long sale and it's timing - Sales Director

The 3 day delivery promise and the weeks of waiting - now an external company who need to be brought to account by the Sales Director

 

The new sales terms for retailers (which they forgot to write in full for 2 months) - Sales Director (plus main board as change in strategy)

The lack of product in the UK this year - Manufacturing or Product Development Director(s). Sales can only sell what lands.

Exeter - Could be any or all of the Directors

 

 

 

 

Hornby may have had a better idea of how to deal with Black Friday if they dealt with at least one BF inhouse first before farming it out to where they have so that additional bodies could be brought in as required on a casual, agency basis.

 

I'm a little bit curious about how they are running their warehouse now, having worked in a couple a while back.  Perhaps they have paid for one or two operatives who are not getting overtime or additional help or maybe just couldn't be bothered?

 

Back in the 1990s, for an agency, I did a while at QVC in different areas, I was lucky, I could pick and choose the hours and were I worked so must have been okay!  First day on the job I was packing in access of the targets, didn't know what the targets were at the beginning, can't remember for sure might have been sixty parcels an hour. I just got on with it, think I did 400+ on the first day.  One bimbo at the pack station in front of me packed three parcels the entire session as she was gabbing on to her mates.  I would say about a handful of people really care about the job and the others couldn't be bothered.  Maybe that's what we have here, staff who just aren't bothered and let the parcels build up.

 

Maybe it's poor labour relations at the warehouse that they outsourced to?  After all, Hornby have been upsetting as many people as possible!