Non-magnetic Wheelsets for UK Rolling Stock

[happyChappy]

I'm resurrecting this thread in the hope that one of you experienced modellers will have by now found some suitable non-magnetic wheelsets for use in Bachmann or Hornby rolling stock. Kadee couplings are now so easy to fit using the NEM sockets that they must be an increasingly popular conversion but what readily-available, non-magnetic, wheelsets do you use to avoid rogue uncoupling? 

 

I've been using the Kadee 'Griffin' 0n30 wheelsets with 00 stock and these work fine but are quite large diameter wheels. Any alternatives recommended?

 

Hope someone can help.

HC

[pctrainman]

Over here, in the U.S., one can go to an auto parts store and buy a "feeler gauge" set. Here, again, we can usually find them very cheap. The average set consists of about twenty or more varying thickness "sheets" of steel (magnetic) used to measure the "gap" between various things in the mechanical world, such as spark plug electrodes, piston ring end-gap, etc. In every case, in my experience, is each "sheet" is EXACTLY the same width, and just a tad longer than the Kadee "between the rails" magnet. Atleast a half-dozen or so of these things are thin enough to "stick" right on top of the magnet (they won't hit the rails). Bend down the leading and trailing edges as not to snag, by chance, the trip pins. By doing this, you have effectively "killed" the magnetism, and the couplers will not uncouple and little or no attraction to axles or wheels. Making a little "handle" of sorts with a magnet on one end can be used to remove the sheet when the uncoupler is needed. The only care needed is to not place them on the magnets "cockeyed" as they will short the rails, and/or snag the wheels. Contouring the front and back edges of the "sheet" helps to avoid this. I've been doing this for years without issue. By the way, the type of 'feeler gauge" I'm refering to is kind of like a "folding pocket knife" with a whole bunch of blades, all a different thickness usually in .001" increments. The thinner ones (naturally) are the only ones you can use. I don't know what you "Englanders" might call these things, but maybe someone can help me, if necessary, with my terminology!

Hi Wobblinwheel , they are called "feeler gauges" here in the UK  as well but a better option would be to purchase some steel " shim" material which comes in various thicknesses and saves you having to destroy a feeler gauge ,it can be cut in it's thinnest sizes with just a decent pair of scissors or for thicker stuff a good pair of tin snips is what you need .

[Jeff Smith]

Hi happyChappy - if you refer back to post #45 you'll see that the Hornby spoked wagon wheels are the same diameter as the Kadee On30 disc wheels, ie 0.5". They just require refitting to 2mm brass axles. Wagon weights, if magnetic, may also need replacement with lead or similar.

[happyChappy]

Hi happyChappy - if you refer back to post #45 you'll see that the Hornby spoked wagon wheels are the same diameter as the Kadee On30 disc wheels, ie 0.5". They just require refitting to 2mm brass axles. Wagon weights, if magnetic, may also need replacement with lead or similar.

Thanks Jeff. How straightforward is the task of replacing Hornby and Bachmann wheels onto 2mm brass axles? I have a 'Buzz Flyer' model gear puller/replacement tool (intended for radio-controlled aircraft) which I've used for removing and replacing 'n' gauge wheels so assume it will follow a similar process. I've looked for 2mm brass axles online but could really do with some pointers as to a suitable source if you know of any?

[Jeff Smith]

I don't use a puller, I just hold the wheelset vertically with the end of the axle pressed into the bench then push the wheels down and off with my fingers. Easier to do than describe. The hub of the wheels has some sort of rubber to both grip the axle and provide electrical insulation.

 

Brass axles are available from the Proto87.com stores in three different lengths.

[Il Grifone]

Usually, I find twisting the wheel on its axle will shift it. It can then be twisted or pulled off, There are are of course always the stubborn bu**ers that need more persuasive methods.

 

Pin-points can be turned onto brass rod using a power drill and file. The included angle should be 60 degrees and the resulting point should be sharp. 

[Jeff Smith]

Some may say the use of brass axles (pinpoints) in brass bearings is bad practice but a tiny drop of fine lubricant should be ok. In my case with the Peco O-16.5 coach and wagon kits, plastic (nylon?) press-in bearings are supplied so brass is just fine with no lubricant.

[Il Grifone]

Wear is greatest when similar materials are used (e.g. brass on brass), but it's still going to take a large mileage to wear out rolling stock bearings (it's not an impossible or expensive job to replace the items anyway). As an example vintage Dublo and Trix stock (steel on steel) is hardly ever found with worn bearings* and is probably due to lack of lubrication anyway.

 

* A plain axle running in a hole punched in metal sheet has something of the order of three times the friction of a pin-point bearing.

[Dunsignalling]

Hi happyChappy - if you refer back to post #45 you'll see that the Hornby spoked wagon wheels are the same diameter as the Kadee On30 disc wheels, ie 0.5". They just require refitting to 2mm brass axles. Wagon weights, if magnetic, may also need replacement with lead or similar.

In my experience steel weights in UK wagons will be far enough from the magnet to avoid any noticeable attraction. This is with the older type Kadee electromagnets running on 36v at 1 amp rather than the recommended 12-16v at 3 amps.

 

I do replace them with lead on open wagons, but only to get more weight into the available space.

 

John

Edited January 26, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Yardman]

It's not the wheelsets that are the problem. It's the steel weight in the wagon floor. The KD under track magnets are powerful enough to draw the wagon in. I use a servo to pull the magnet out of the way after uncoupling to get round the problem.

[Johndc120]

On 02/12/2014 at 16:55, benjy14 said:

My thanks to everybody who has replied to my question. I'm pleased to say that I now have a working solution to this problem that is actually very simple...

 

Using 40-something's suggestion of a strip of Neodymium magnets laid between the sleepers as inspiration, it seemed to me that the whole problem was that the Kadee uncoupling magnet as supplied is too long and that by reducing it in length, uncoupling could still be achieved without the axles being attracted to the magnet itself. So, using an axle grinder, I cut the magnet and steel plate into three bits; one 10mm, one 15mm, and the last is whatever was left (just over 20mm). This allowed me to experiment and what I have found is that the 15mm one works perfectly. Here it is under some test track:

 

 

And by simply moving a couple of Kadee-fitted vehicles over it by hand, I found that uncoupling would very well without the wheels beig attracted to the magnet. This is obviously hard to show in pictures but the following should (hopefully) so that the magnet does indeed work:

 

 

There we have it!  I hope this little investigation may prove useful to somebody else...

 

Cheers,

 

Ben

 

I’ve just been reading this thread with interest, I’ve been using Kadee’s for years on british stock and always suffered with the effect of stock being pulled towards the magnets. My usual get out for this is to fit foam pads to the axles of the brake vans, this provides a small amount of rolling resistance to prevent the pull of the magnets.

 

My latest layout, Elmore is steam outline with gradients, so too much rolling resistance is going to be a problem. 

 

following Ben’s suggestion of cutting the magnets to 15mm this vid shows my trials 

 

 

Very happy with the result. The second plus benefit is with a reduced size magnet you are less likely to stop over the magnet and accidentally uncouple. Small 4 wheel wagons are a pain for this!

 

John 

[9C85]

On 02/12/2014 at 16:55, benjy14 said:

My thanks to everybody who has replied to my question. I'm pleased to say that I now have a working solution to this problem that is actually very simple...

 

Using 40-something's suggestion of a strip of Neodymium magnets laid between the sleepers as inspiration, it seemed to me that the whole problem was that the Kadee uncoupling magnet as supplied is too long and that by reducing it in length, uncoupling could still be achieved without the axles being attracted to the magnet itself. So, using an axle grinder, I cut the magnet and steel plate into three bits; one 10mm, one 15mm, and the last is whatever was left (just over 20mm). This allowed me to experiment and what I have found is that the 15mm one works perfectly. Here it is under some test track:

 

 

And by simply moving a couple of Kadee-fitted vehicles over it by hand, I found that uncoupling would very well without the wheels beig attracted to the magnet. This is obviously hard to show in pictures but the following should (hopefully) so that the magnet does indeed work:

 

 

There we have it!  I hope this little investigation may prove useful to somebody else...

 

Cheers,

 

Ben

Hello Ben,

I am new to the forum and posted a question yesterday on this exact same topic. Then a Google search led me to this thread. I am interested in your solution as I have installed the delayed action magnet and it works well with fixed rakes but has the problem of detaching loose coupled stock. Just to clarify, did you mean 'angle grinder' as opposed to 'axle grinder '. A search for the latter returns the former.  Thanks again 

[benjy14]

9 hours ago, 9C85 said:

Hello Ben,

I am new to the forum and posted a question yesterday on this exact same topic. Then a Google search led me to this thread. I am interested in your solution as I have installed the delayed action magnet and it works well with fixed rakes but has the problem of detaching loose coupled stock. Just to clarify, did you mean 'angle grinder' as opposed to 'axle grinder '. A search for the latter returns the former.  Thanks again 

 

Hi,

 

Yes, I meant angle grinder, not axle grinder!  I've actually now gone away from using Kadees completely now, and use Sprat and Winkle couplings supplied by Wizard Models as I feel they give a better appearance for UK stock, although of course they do require a lot more work to construct and fit.

 

Cheers,

Ben

[Philou]

Do you find it a bit of a bind using the S&W couplers seeing that the stock can only be ever facing one way? And what about close coupling? Can that be achieved?

 

Just asking, as what little stock I have has the standard Bachmann hook and loop and I'm just thinking of possible alternatives.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[benjy14]

Just now, Philou said:

Do you find it a bit of a bind using the S&W couplers seeing that the stock can only be ever facing one way? And what about close coupling? Can that be achieved?

 

Just asking, as what little stock I have has the standard Bachmann hook and loop and I'm just thinking of possible alternatives.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

It's true that using S&W requires a lot of investment in terms of time and learning how to fit build/fit them. And of course, most stock these days have NEM pockets, so fitting Kadees is a doddle. But I think their overall apperance makes the effort worth it, especially as the locomotives only need a simple bar, which means all of the buffer detailing can be added. As for only only facing one way, you can fit a coupling bar at both ends, so that's not an issue, although it is essential to use a jig to build the couplers to ensure that all couplings have the same spacing. Finally, there is some flexibiulity to make the stock close coupled, depending on the radius of your curves; again, a jig helps here.

 

So overall, if you have the time, I would recommend S&W as I think they give very good performance and look great, but otherwise, Kadees are very effective and quick. The only thing to be aware of with Kadees is that the type and mounting the magets is absolutely essential to get right, so I would recommend the technique that I found worked for me earlier in this thread using a shortened Kadee magnet.

 

Cheers,

 

Ben

[9C85]

1 hour ago, benjy14 said:

 

Hi,

 

Yes, I meant angle grinder, not axle grinder!  I've actually now gone away from using Kadees completely now, and use Sprat and Winkle couplings supplied by Wizard Models as I feel they give a better appearance for UK stock, although of course they do require a lot more work to construct and fit.

 

Cheers,

Ben

Thanks for the quick reply.  Just about to try cutting my magnet

[9C85]

45 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

Thanks for the quick reply.  Just about to try cutting my magnet

I was quite surprised to find how soft and flexible the Kadee magnet is. I had been looking on the Internet for a Dremel cutter to do the job, but had also read it can be cut with a hacksaw, Stanley knife or even a heavy duty paper cutting guillotine.  I did mine with a razor saw that I have had for years. I first tried the 15mm width you suggested but struggled to get the 'Kadee shuffle' right in the small space. So I just tried the remaining  'big' piece of the original magnet, which would be around 37mm. This worked bettet on the delayed action uncoupling and, more importantly, loose coupled stock didn't detach when being dragged over. I still had trouble with the Hornby BG re-attaching itself when being pushed. I think it's a combination of the axles being attracted to the magnet and the coach being too light. I have managed to take it apart to see where I can add weight (pretty easy in a parcels van). Making progress. Thanks for the advice 

[Nile]

16 hours ago, Philou said:

Do you find it a bit of a bind using the S&W couplers seeing that the stock can only be ever facing one way? And what about close coupling? Can that be achieved?

You may be confusing S&W with Dingham couplings. S&W can have a hook and loop at both ends, and the buffers will touch when they are pushed together.

[Philou]

@Nile I was raising the question as I had a look at a video purporting to be S&W couplings in use - I haven't seen the name Dingham before - what are they like?

benjy14 did say that there was the possibility of having a loop and hook at each end. Does that mean that you end up with something that looks like the old fashioned Tri-ang couplings (without the 'D') but upside down?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Nile]

Dingham's can be found here:

http://www.dingham.co.uk/4mm_coupler.htm

From the diagram you can see only one has a loop, making any fitted stock 'handed'.

Photos of S&W couplings can be found here:

You can fit a hook at just one end, making the stock handed, or fit hooks at both ends. You will need to do this if you don't want to fit hooks to locos.