Battery Powered Radio Controlled Locomotives for Pengarigg

[davetheroad]

In this topic I am hoping to share my experiences in converting my 00 scale steam locomotives to radio control and battery power. First some background information.

My new layout is called Pengarigg (soft gg) and is inspired by the west coast main line in the far northwest during the LMS and early BR periods. Maybe my grandfather being a driver for LMS and BR based in Carlisle had something to do with my choice!.

Pengarigg has a double track mainline plus branchline with a 3 platform station having prototype length platforms, a small loco shed with a 60 foot turntable and very small freight facilities. My main interest is passenger operations.

The layout is built on baseboards originally used for a N-scale layout. There is no power applied to the rails, in fact no wiring and the points are controlled manually by me. All the track is laid except that I might add another loop and siding to the fiddle yard.

Here are some images:

looking south with the loco shed, carriage siding and position of the turntable marked.

 

platforms, the coal siding is in front of goods shed.

 

looking north with cattle siding. A ruined castle will be on the 'hill' in the corner.

 

fiddle yard looking north.

 

fiddle yard looking south.

 

Next I will show how I built a rough and ready mobile test rig.

[fallen]

Looks a very good layout Dave, a nice size, lots of scope. I like the idea of the castle.

 

Looking forward to seeing how you get on with radio control too.

 

Frank

[davetheroad]

The Mobile Test Rig

 

Each locomotive class has differing requirements depending on the loads it is pulling and the maximum scale speed needed. I decided that as most of the layout was station for passenger locos this would be a comfortable 60mph with a 'normal' coach load. Twelve to 14 coaches for the 'crack expresses'. Eight to nine for regional services. Six for local stoppers and 4 for the branch line.

 

For freight trains it will be up to 40mph as apparently an unfitted goods had a maximum allowed speed of 25mph? and for fitted 35mph? For shunting 20mph should be enough.

 

How long should the locos run between battery recharges? Some say 8 hours but obviously as long as possible is good. The way I operate my railway, occasional use of a loco or two during the week and a proper session at the weekend suggests, as the average run time for a loco is about 15 minutes per session, an endurance of 30-40 minutes should be OK.

 

Here is the test rig with the various components set out. A Dapol LMS coach kit has been partially assembled without adhesive to carry the radio receiver and batteries. In this case a Bachmann 3F 0-6-0 is ready for testing. The normal expected load will be added behind and the tests started. There is a radio receiver from Deltang, (www.deltang.co.uk) the only? source of readily available equipment in the UK at the moment. Various battery harnesses and some batteries.

 

This shows the batteries in more detail. They are Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries which are widely available for the radio controlled plane market. A vast range of sizes and capacities is available but these examples are designed for the smallest planes. There is a 220mAh (millamp hours), 160mAh and 70mAh shown. Other sizes and manufacturers are available!. The batteries deliver a nominal 3.7volts which is obviously not enough for our locos so i built a wiring harness allowing 2 or 3 batteries can be connected in series giving 7.4V or 11.1V. Here the harness is set up for 2 batteries. The 70mAh battery is very useful when testing the locos. Theoretically it can deliver 1Amp of power for 4.2 minutes so by running the loco until the battery is discharged you can calculate how much power the loco needs and how long it will run for. The expected run time can then be calculated for larger capacity batteries. The 3F 0-6-0 will run for at least 40 minutes with 70mAh.

 

You need to check the voltage from time to time so i use a multimeter and an ingenious contraption made of lego and some spare wiring harness. BTW connecting wire with the correct connectors are available from the battery retailers.

 

This is my charger. The little batteries plug into the slots and 4 can be recharged at the same time.

 

This is needed as well. It is the train controller, actually a transmitter that sends the commands to the receivers in the locos. This also a Deltang unit, a TX-22 whci can control 12 locomotives. The graphics are mine. Don't forget the PP3 battery to power it and finally you need a stop watch.

 

How I run a test - I have marked out 9 feet along a straight in the fiddle yard and the maximum and wanted speed can be measured. Eight seconds for the 9 ft is about scale 58 mph. The test coach is set up with freshly recharged batteries and the normal load to be pulled is attached. Note the time, start the loco, adjust the speed and run until the battery discharges or slightly before, you can tell because the loco slows.

 

Next is preparing a loco for testing. Removing some of the innards etc!.

[fallen]

Very interesting Dave.

 

For comparison, I model narrow gauge, mostly in 009 which is basically N gauge chassis. I only run small 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 locos and the prototypes do not run as fast as standard gauge locos. I find a single cell (nominal 3.7v) will drive modern models at prototypical speeds for 009 and take less than 100mA, sometimes a lot less, so quite small batteries are OK. Older locos, more worn or with less efficient motors, take more, both volts and current.

 

I also have a O-16.5 loco which is basically on an OO chassis and that runs OK on a two cell battery.

 

As a rough check to try locos without taking them apart, I have a couple of feet of track connected to a box with to either one battery or two, through a current meter, to just get an idea of the current consumption and speed with a single cell or two cells. You can use this to try out different models for suitability before buying them.

 

Frank

[davetheroad]

Not a good weekend so far, I woke up yesterday with a stinking cold, no advance warning, it just snuck up on me!. Plus the left eye has been misbehaving again, won't focus, something to do with drainage or whatever. So not much conversion work done. I tested some locos with a Pololu 9V voltage booster and single 3.7V lipo batteries. A much simpler settup which avoids some of the possible problems with lipo batteries in series.

 

I got some decent performances out of the locos then came a test of 'my beautiful engine' a Duchess in smart early BR blue livery. She ran beautifully last week pulling 12 coaches with no problem. Yesterday she was having a bad day, derailing every few minutes, it seems at the same 2 sections of the circuit. I will have to closely examine the front bogie and track sections. Meanwhile buying a back to back gauge is a priority, those flanges are only 14mm apart!.

[davetheroad]

Sorry about the delay, retirement seems to have left me with too much to do and not enough time in which to do it.
 
Here is an overview of my first 00 scale conversion to battery power/radio control. the main equipment comes from ww.deltang.co.uk

This secondhand Hornby Midland 4-4-0 compound was the first loco I converted to BPRC. It ran well on the rolling road so I anticipated no difficult problems.

What did I want the loco to do on the layout? Pull secondary passenger services of up to 8 coaches. As the layout is mostly station and approaches I considered a minimum scale top speed of 60mph to be reasonable.

Modifying the loco/tender, loco first. I removed all the electrical wheel contacts and wiring as isolating the motor from the rails is essential. As long as electricity cannot flow from/to the track you could leave the wheel wipers in place. Bending them away from the wheels would help in reducing rolling resistance and maybe a tiny amount of lubricant on the wiper would help as well. I also removed the interference capacitor but you could leave it there if you wanted. The two thin black wires leading to the tender pickups were kept for transferring the power from the radio receiver in the tender.

On the tender I removed all the pickup wipers etc and trimmed back the 2 metal lugs on each side of the chassis, allowing the tender body to lift off easily. I replaced the coal load as well using real coal. The idea was the coal could be removed to give access to the innards but in the end i just glued it in place. Finally I built a cardboard box to keep the bits and bobs in place.

The tender contains the radio receiver and the batteries. The receiver is a variant of the Deltang Rx-62-22 with turned pin sockets rather than wires. I specified this for ease of connection as my soldering skills leave a lot to be desired!.

The pair of batteries are Lithium Polymer hobby batteries available from lots of radio control model plane dealers. These are E-flite Blade MCX type, each delivering a nominal 3.7V dc. I connected these together in series to give 7.4 volts using a little harness I made out of extension wires, also avialble fom retailers. These particular batteries are rated at 160mAh. This means they can deliver 160 milliamps (0.16amp) of power for one hour, or 1Amp for 9.6 minutes. The amount of run time you get before recharge depends on the power requirement of the loco and the capacity of the battery. Various capacities are available up to several hundred mAh.

Connecting everything up - I bought a large pack of circuit board patch wires which are the ones with the black insulators that fit in the Rx sockets, bending/cutting the steel pins as required. It is very important that the receiver connects to the battery the right way round, + positive to the battery red lead and the - ground to the black lead.

Notice that the Rx has 7 sockets. The 2 spares along the long edge are used for connecting a magnetic reed on/off switch. I left it off this time to keep things simple. Switching off is simply disconnecting one of the batteries. The Rx instructions show which wires should connect where. The photo shows socketed and wired receivers.

Here is everything in the tender. One of the batteries is disconnected so the receiver is switched off.

The transmitter - I use a Deltang Tx-22 'Selecta' transmitter. This can control up to 12 'live' locomotives and send the speed/direction commands to the receiver in the tender. It needs a 9volt PP3 battery.

Establishing a communications connection. First the receiver needs 'binding' to the transmitter. this means that subsequently the receiver will only obey commands from that receiver and 'selecta' position. for example if we bound the midland 4-4-0 to selecta position 2 it would only react if the transmitter was set to that position. The settings are saved in onboard memory so you don't have to keep rebinding the receiver, however you can rebind to another selecta position or other transmitter if you want.

When a successful connection is made the Receivers green LED will glow constantly. Turn the tranmitter speed knob and the loco should move. What no rails!. Don't drive it off the workbench, I did and spent an hour or so bending all the bits back!.

How does the loco perform? Ran some tests with a stopwatch etc on the layout running the loco and coaches on one of the mainlines. There were 8 Hornby railroad Mk1 coaches coupled. Two 160mAh batteries connected in series giving 7.4volts . The batteries were freshly recharged.

top speed - scale 66 mph
loco draws - 0.105 amps
endurance - 90 minutes.

I was pleased with the results, especially the excellent endurance figures. I like this 4-4-0 and might well but a couple more.

[fallen]

That looks very neat and well executed Dave, and very clearly described. Thanks for posting that in such detail.

 

The results are very encouraging, the performance is good and what you expected.

 

You say the endurance is 90 minutes, I guess this is continuous running. I was demonstrating my radio control locos at the Rainhill show earlier in the month. I have a number of small 009 locos with running time on a continuous basis of 90 mins to 2 hours, but on an intermittent basis they run for much longer. I switched the one I was using on the demo layout on at 10.00 when the show opened and it was still going strong at 5.00 when it closed, just on intermittent use.

 

Frank

[davetheroad]

That looks very neat and well executed Dave, and very clearly described. Thanks for posting that in such detail.

 

The results are very encouraging, the performance is good and what you expected.

 

You say the endurance is 90 minutes, I guess this is continuous running. I was demonstrating my radio control locos at the Rainhill show earlier in the month. I have a number of small 009 locos with running time on a continuous basis of 90 mins to 2 hours, but on an intermittent basis they run for much longer. I switched the one I was using on the demo layout on at 10.00 when the show opened and it was still going strong at 5.00 when it closed, just on intermittent use.

 

Frank

Thanks for the reply Frank, actually I think my wiring is appalling and the soldering, more like arc welding!.

 

Yes it is continuous running, about 35 seconds per circuit on my main lines. With the loco pulling stopping trains rather than a high speed express hurtling through the endurance is good.

 

What sort of reaction did you get at the show?

[fallen]

I got quite a lot of interest. I have a model of the WLLR Wasp personnel carrier that runs up and down on a sheet of glass to attract attention, and people stop and you talk to them, and quite a few wanted to know all about it and stayed ten to twenty minutes. I gave out some copies of the 009 News with articles in, and a list of useful web contacts. One has since been back in touch for more information.

 

I also had quite a few small children driving the locos. This is OK as they are not fast and so there is not much chance of doing any damage. In fact they were quite sensible. There were quite a few small children, as the show also had a Santa, and they seemed to enjoy it.

 

I do try to get people to drive them as that is the best way for them to understand just how different it is. It is easier to get the kids to drive than the grown ups. It is only a small shunting plank layout, but it is good to just push the controller up a few notches and watch the little diesel trundle slowly but surely along, over the points etc. with no hesitation.

 

So all on all a successful day. I just about managed a quick lunch and otherwise I was talking pretty well the whole time. I will be back next year, also at the 009 Society show in Rainford (not the same place!) and the Warrington show.

 

Frank

[Theakerr]

I see this as the way of the future for model Railways, so congratulations on the work you have done to date.  From time to time I have been following some US threads on battery powered systems and there seem to be a couple out there that show real promise.  I have also read of a system that utilizes DCC with the decoder powered all the time from the battery and finally i read of someone developing an inductive charger of model cars.  One speculates that said system could be applied to MRs

[Andy Reichert]

I see this as the way of the future for model Railways, so congratulations on the work you have done to date.  From time to time I have been following some US threads on battery powered systems and there seem to be a couple out there that show real promise.  I have also read of a system that utilizes DCC with the decoder powered all the time from the battery and finally i read of someone developing an inductive charger of model cars.  One speculates that said system could be applied to MRs

 

 

Future? This little O scale guy is 12 years old already.

 

Andy

[davetheroad]

I see this as the way of the future for model Railways, so congratulations on the work you have done to date.  From time to time I have been following some US threads on battery powered systems and there seem to be a couple out there that show real promise.  I have also read of a system that utilizes DCC with the decoder powered all the time from the battery and finally i read of someone developing an inductive charger of model cars.  One speculates that said system could be applied to MRs

I would think that would use radio to send the information from the base station to the decoder. ?

[DaveyH]

How did you make the graphics for the Tx22 please?

They look very good!

[davetheroad]

How did you make the graphics for the Tx22 please?

They look very good!

I drew them in Silouette Cameo cutter software for cutting but it was just as easy to print from a Acrobat pdf file and cut them out with scissors. I used copydex to stick them to the Receiver.

 

Rx dials.pdf

[DaveyH]

Thanks Dave

[davetheroad]

Well, 6 months later and here i am again!. Life and medical issues have curtailed model railway work and there were periods where I did nothing with the trains. However things are looking better and I now have 10 passenger locos converted, all using the same transmitter.

 

I have changed the installation from post #6 and it now includes a Pololu voltage regulator. This boosts the nominal 3.7V of a single battery to 9V which so far has been sufficient for scale speeds of over 60mph. There is a 12V version if needed. Adding the Pololu means I can 'program' the receivers to control minimum and maximum speeds.

 

 

 

Here are the locos left to right

Duchess of Gloucester - my beautiful blue engine

City of Sheffield

Duke of Gloucester

Princess Elizabeth

Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - rebuilt Scot

 

 

more

Sir Herbert Walker KCB - rebuilt Patriot

Illustrious - LMS Patriot

Falkland Islands - Jubilee

Clan Macloud - Clan Class

Compond 4-4-0 - LMS livery

 

 

The 2 LMS locos are tempory allocations as I await a green BR unrebuilt Patriot and a Princess Royal Class in Blue livery with loco drive, or maybe a Britannia. The number 12 position on the transmitter still needs an engine but maybe a lightweight DMU might be suitable.

 

[fallen]

That's an impressive stud Dave, and a very neat installation too. It shows you can convert the bigger locos to radio control as well as the smaller ones I tend to have. Nice to see you getting on so well.

 

Frank

[davetheroad]

The next batch might be a challenge, the Jinty 0-6-0 is just about possible. I am also going to try and consist a couple of engines so that I can double head. The Deltang receivers latest software version should make this easier. I also bought one of the new prog4 transmitters whichis only £14 and  downloads configuration changes to the receiver from your computer.

 

the planned engines for my second transmitter are:

 

Jinty 0-6-0

3F 0-6-0

3F 0-6-0

4F 0-6-0

Black 5 4-6-0

'Crab' 2-6-0

G2 0-8-0

Stanier 2-8-0

Austerity 2-8-0

9F 2-10-0

 

I hope to double head the two 3F's

 

I have the engines but it will be several months to complete the conversions.

 

Meanwhile I have bought a lot of wagons for the goods testing and plan to make the fiddle yard scenic, then there is terrain and buildings and just not enough time to do it all.

 

ps - the installations are not that neat but I am learning, refining and simplifying.

[kada33]

Hi Dave

 

Can I ask where you bought all the Deltang system from please.

 

I shall want to buy the kit version of the Tx 22 but not the prog4 module for programing yet.

On the Deltang site it give the prices for all the parts but nobody supplying them at those prices.

 

Dave Bowden

[fallen]

Hi Dave,

 

There is a list of suppliers on the Deltang website

 

http://www.deltang.co.uk/buy.htm

 

I use Micron, they were one of only two suppliers in the UK when I started and they provide good service. I have not tried the others.

 

You can also buy direct from DelTang, but Micron supply other items like batteries which helps reduce postage costs.

 

Frank

[kada33]

The next batch might be a challenge, the Jinty 0-6-0 is just about possible. I am also going to try and consist a couple of engines so that I can double head. The Deltang receivers latest software version should make this easier. I also bought one of the new prog4 transmitters whichis only £14 and  downloads configuration changes to the receiver from your computer.

 

the planned engines for my second transmitter are:

 

Jinty 0-6-0

3F 0-6-0

3F 0-6-0

4F 0-6-0

Black 5 4-6-0

'Crab' 2-6-0

G2 0-8-0

Stanier 2-8-0

Austerity 2-8-0

9F 2-10-0

 

I hope to double head the two 3F's

 

I have the engines but it will be several months to complete the conversions.

 

Meanwhile I have bought a lot of wagons for the goods testing and plan to make the fiddle yard scenic, then there is terrain and buildings and just not enough time to do it all.

 

ps - the installations are not that neat but I am learning, refining and simplifying.

Hi Dave

Is the knob on the selector switch one that came with the Tx22 or have you replaced it with a different one.

I ask because I bought the Tx22 kit and the knobs for the selector and Ineria switches are both the same.

 

The problem being the retaining nut for the selector switch is of a larger diameter and the knob doesn't go down over it!

So it sticks up above the Ineria knob, just doesn't look good.

Dave

[davetheroad]

Hi Dave

Is the knob on the selector switch one that came with the Tx22 or have you replaced it with a different one.

I ask because I bought the Tx22 kit and the knobs for the selector and Ineria switches are both the same.

 

The problem being the retaining nut for the selector switch is of a larger diameter and the knob doesn't go down over it!

So it sticks up above the Ineria knob, just doesn't look good.

Dave

 

 

 

I never noticed that! i have 3 transmitters and they are all the same. The latest purchase has a larger throttle knob which means we can use whatever knob we want. Maybe contact DavidT at Deltang and see if it is possible to source a thinner nut for the selecta switch, or a thicker nut for the inertia knob. Or, alternatively re position the inertia knob further away from the casing.

[kada33]

I never noticed that! i have 3 transmitters and they are all the same. The latest purchase has a larger throttle knob which means we can use whatever knob we want. Maybe contact DavidT at Deltang and see if it is possible to source a thinner nut for the selecta switch, or a thicker nut for the inertia knob. Or, alternatively re position the inertia knob further away from the casing.

 

I did contact David T and his reply was to raise the Inertia knob up to suit!!

Both knobs are the same but the Selector switch shaft is of a bigger diameter so the nut is larger. What is needed is a knob with a larger recess so it goes right over the nut not sit on the top of it.

 

Dave

[davetheroad]

I suppose each potentiometer comes with its own nut so Deltang just use the one supplied. Maybe not ideal but i must say in use I don't notice any difference as you have a top view rather than from the side. There might be a suitable knob out there it is just a question of finding it!.

 

Let us know how you get on with building the Tx. They are a bargain at the price but i have not had the courage to try one yet. Maybe starting with a single loco Tx would be the best idea.

[fallen]

I build my own Txs and they are Ok to build if you have any experience with electronics as you have to identify the parts eg the resistors and fit them in to fairly tight spaces, OK if you are used to it. I'd say a small electronics soldering iron, electronic grade flux cored solder, and a multimeter to check resistor values are pretty well essential.

 

One tip, the actual transmitter module is ready assembled but you have to make connections to a three by seven matrix of pins at 1/10 inch spacing which is quite tight. However the pins are the same spacing as servo connectors as the module started life as a receiver for aeroplanes - just with different programming! You can buy ready wired servo connectors from aircraft model shops and these will plug straight on to the pins then you can use the wires to connect into the rest of the circuit. Makes it a lot easier! There are a lot of pins but you only need three or four connectors as the majority of the pins are power connections and you only need to connect the positive and negative once each.

 

Hope this helps

 

Frank