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This is more a "What to do with these old models". The Hornby 110 has been with us for some time a I still recon it is a good starting point for many a model, I am not alone in this as Jim Smith-Wright has also been busy with converting these models. I will admit to using his examples to inspire me  trying to copy him.

 

The Lima 117 model again still has potential despite its age.

 

I will start with the 110 conversions. Some time ago I commenced on conversions to a Derby 3 car "heavy weight" (Class 107) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80987-converting-Hornby-class-110-into-a-class-104-unit/?p=1303139 and a BRCW 3car (Class 104) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80987-converting-Hornby-class-110-into-a-class-104-unit/?p=1302346 . Not much to do with these two except the cabs, file the crease off turnunder and remove the window frames. Both still need finishing. I am considering what to do regarding the underframes when comparing the recent Bachmann models they will be running alongside.

 

Next up is another BRCW unit, this time a NER 4 car set. These had a Trailer Brake Second, a type of coach that Hornby does not produce. Two sets of units are required, the two Driving Motor Composites, the two Trailer Seconds and one Driving Motor Brake Composite are needed. Quite a simple conversion, cut the brake end off the 110 DMBC and the non-loo end off a TS. Glue the brake end on the remaining part of the TS to make a TBS. The power unit needs to be relocated in this coach. The two DMC need their cabs modified. There is no work to be done on the second TS.

 

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The TBS

 

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One of the DMC showing what needs removing to start to make it look like a 104.

 

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Both DMC

 

post-16423-0-11637300-1417563374_thumb.jpg

Running as a 3 car unit, the TS is in the man shed all alone. These units did run in a 3car formation when they were transferred from the NER to the wilds of East Anglia losing their TS.

 

The some of the bits left over from the DMBC are used for the next conversion, a Derby 2 car "long underframe heavy weight" (Class 114). Only the DMBC and the TS are required from a 110 set. The underframes and cabs are from a Lima 117 unit. I have used the Hornby 110 for this conversion instead of lengthening a Bachmann 108 as the body profile and the window height are a closer match than those of a 108. The same goes for the 107 conversion. The heavy weights had a Derby/LMS profile with windows higher up like on a Mk1 and the Derby light weights (both original and 108s) had a continuous curve like a Mk1 but with the lower windows found on a LMS coach. Back to the conversion, there is much cutting and shutting to be done which I hope shows in the photos. I have started on the cabs as well. The body bits that were left help with the next conversion.

 

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The Driving Trailer Composite

 

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The Driving Motor Brake Second

 

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The whole train.

 

 

Last is an ER Derby 3 car suburban Lee Valley "orange star" unit (Class 125), this is not for Sheffield Exchange as they were used only in the London area of the ER, first out of Liverpool street, then later from Kings Cross. I recently operated on Baby Deltic's Sumartra Road layout and this was one class of DMU that would fit wonderfully on Lloyd's layout http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6210-sumatra-road-the-north-london-railway-in-the-1960s/. The DMBS just needed it cabs altering. The DMS had extra seating bays added from the sides off the discarded bodies from the 114 conversion, much as has been documented loads of times when people have made a 117, 118 or 116. The Trailer Second was made by cutting and shutting various bits off the Lima TC and the remaining bodies. The TS on the 125 has a different window arrangement to those of the 116 but because Lima made the seating bays too long and the toilet too short when doing this conversion I ended up having to splice a bit of roof section and lengthen the underframe. MJI had the same problem when he did his 116 conversion  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61704-class-116-centre-car-drawings-or-side-elevation-photos-available/?p=792532

 

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post-16423-0-76630900-1417563787_thumb.jpg

The DMS

 

post-16423-0-39034900-1417563832_thumb.jpg

The DMBS and the DMS together

 

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The TS

 

All these models require filler and other work to be done on them but I thought I would share the "rough" work with you.

 

I am now left with a Class 110 DMBC and DMC, I am thinking I may convert these to a Gloucester 2 car set....

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i did not believe it was your modelling to start with as the first couple of pictures had glazing, then i was reassured by the others, they look interesting in the multi coloured scheme but after filing and filing i know they will look great  properly painted.

Richard

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i did not believe it was your modelling to start with as the first couple of pictures had glazing, then i was reassured by the others, they look interesting in the multi coloured scheme but after filing and filing i know they will look great  properly painted.

Richard

Hi Richard

 

Mark said the same thing regarding the windies last night at the club. :no2:

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They look good Clive, I like the 125 TS, but to be honest the Lima roofs are best taken down to smooth plastic and new vents fitted. You can see the differences to 115 116 127 with the fewer full width windows.

 

I saw 4 x 125 DMBS at Swindon in a scrap line in the late 70s.

 

NE 104 is also nice.

 

I have restarted work on my Tysely 116 as well.

 

Will be good to see them finished.

 

I would recommend Laserglaze for the 125 if you want to go that route, much better than SE vac form.

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Hi, Clive. Don't forget the luggage racks opposite the toilets in all of the class 104 cars, this is another of those differences between class 104 and class 110 ( frosted glass windows). You have made an excellent start on all of your units, and I look forward to further progress, although I realise that these things can take time, for it took me roughly one year to complete my 'upgrade' of a class 110 set - albeit I used Bachmann class 108 chassis so that I could use it in multiple with 105's and 108's from Bachmann without units fighting one another!

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

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I, too, found the multi-coloured liveries amusing. :D

There is a lot of modelling work gone into these and Clive has obviously thought out the conversions very well before starting. There's certainly enough there to keep him off the streets for some time to come!

As with the other posters above, I also will look forward to seeing the finished results. 

Keep up the great work, Clive.

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  • 4 months later...

I have been doing some more work on these machines and others. Many are coated with filler and do not look very pretty.

 

Others include a four car Met-Cam unit with a buffet coach, like the BRCW one I have made a Trailer Brake Second. The TBS is the driving coach to hide the motor in the van end. I cut away the Lima engine block and from the spare trailer car (which had already doanted its body for parts), I cut away the middle bits from the underframe. These were mounted in place of the engine block. This was the easier route to take than trying to fit the motor and pick up bogies on a trailer underframe. To do this conversion I used two 3 car units. There were two cars left and these now run as a DMBS and DTC. Lima never made a DTC. I have also convered them so they are an early unit with four headcode lights.

 

I have ear marked a Met-Cam power twin to be converted to a Class 111 with a four figure headcode box.

 

One of my spare 110 units is being converted to a Gloucester RCW Class 100 2 car unit. It is looking good so far. Photos later in the week.

 

I still have a 110 which I do not know what to do with.

 

Taking of 110 conversions I dug out my slightly damaged Derby 2 car I built many years ago from a 110. It has now been added to the Sheffield Exchange stock. Ok it does not look as good as a Bachmann 108 but I made it.

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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  • 1 month later...

This is more a "What to do with these old models". The Hornby 110 has been with us for some time a I still recon it is a good starting point for many a model, I am not alone in this as Jim Smith-Wright has also been busy with converting these models. I will admit to using his examples to inspire me  trying to copy him.

 

The Lima 117 model again still has potential despite its age.

 

I will start with the 110 conversions. Some time ago I commenced on conversions to a Derby 3 car "heavy weight" (Class 107) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80987-converting-Hornby-class-110-into-a-class-104-unit/?p=1303139 and a BRCW 3car (Class 104) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80987-converting-Hornby-class-110-into-a-class-104-unit/?p=1302346 . Not much to do with these two except the cabs, file the crease off turnunder and remove the window frames. Both still need finishing. I am considering what to do regarding the underframes when comparing the recent Bachmann models they will be running alongside.

 

Next up is another BRCW unit, this time a NER 4 car set. These had a Trailer Brake Second, a type of coach that Hornby does not produce. Two sets of units are required, the two Driving Motor Composites, the two Trailer Seconds and one Driving Motor Brake Composite are needed. Quite a simple conversion, cut the brake end off the 110 DMBC and the non-loo end off a TS. Glue the brake end on the remaining part of the TS to make a TBS. The power unit needs to be relocated in this coach. The two DMC need their cabs modified. There is no work to be done on the second TS.

 

attachicon.gif005a.jpg

The TBS

 

attachicon.gif003a.jpg

One of the DMC showing what needs removing to start to make it look like a 104.

 

attachicon.gif004a.jpg

Both DMC

 

attachicon.gif002a.jpg

Running as a 3 car unit, the TS is in the man shed all alone. These units did run in a 3car formation when they were transferred from the NER to the wilds of East Anglia losing their TS.

 

The some of the bits left over from the DMBC are used for the next conversion, a Derby 2 car "long underframe heavy weight" (Class 114). Only the DMBC and the TS are required from a 110 set. The underframes and cabs are from a Lima 117 unit. I have used the Hornby 110 for this conversion instead of lengthening a Bachmann 108 as the body profile and the window height are a closer match than those of a 108. The same goes for the 107 conversion. The heavy weights had a Derby/LMS profile with windows higher up like on a Mk1 and the Derby light weights (both original and 108s) had a continuous curve like a Mk1 but with the lower windows found on a LMS coach. Back to the conversion, there is much cutting and shutting to be done which I hope shows in the photos. I have started on the cabs as well. The body bits that were left help with the next conversion.

 

attachicon.gif011a.jpg

attachicon.gif001a.jpg

The Driving Trailer Composite

 

attachicon.gif012a.jpg

attachicon.gif013a.jpg

The Driving Motor Brake Second

 

attachicon.gif010.JPG

The whole train.

 

 

Last is an ER Derby 3 car suburban Lee Valley "orange star" unit (Class 125), this is not for Sheffield Exchange as they were used only in the London area of the ER, first out of Liverpool street, then later from Kings Cross. I recently operated on Baby Deltic's Sumartra Road layout and this was one class of DMU that would fit wonderfully on Lloyd's layout http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6210-sumatra-road-the-north-london-railway-in-the-1960s/. The DMBS just needed it cabs altering. The DMS had extra seating bays added from the sides off the discarded bodies from the 114 conversion, much as has been documented loads of times when people have made a 117, 118 or 116. The Trailer Second was made by cutting and shutting various bits off the Lima TC and the remaining bodies. The TS on the 125 has a different window arrangement to those of the 116 but because Lima made the seating bays too long and the toilet too short when doing this conversion I ended up having to splice a bit of roof section and lengthen the underframe. MJI had the same problem when he did his 116 conversion  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61704-class-116-centre-car-drawings-or-side-elevation-photos-available/?p=792532

 

attachicon.gif006a.jpg

attachicon.gif007a.jpg

The DMS

 

attachicon.gif009a.jpg

The DMBS and the DMS together

 

attachicon.gif008a.jpg

The TS

 

All these models require filler and other work to be done on them but I thought I would share the "rough" work with you.

 

I am now left with a Class 110 DMBC and DMC, I am thinking I may convert these to a Gloucester 2 car set....

 

*I can't think what possessed me 20+years ago to make up my TBLS the wrong way around, it should have been one join like yours but now I have a lot of filling and making good to do!

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Steven.

Edited by SDuhig
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  • 1 month later...

Time to update on the DMU front.

 

First is the BRCW units. I have two class 104s under conversion a 3 car and a 4car, both are nearly finished.

post-16423-0-99725500-1434927319_thumb.jpg

The 3 car unit.

 

post-16423-0-64349400-1434927355_thumb.jpg

The 4 car, stopped before entering Sheffield Exchange.

 

The Derby long underframe class 114 is slowly getting there.

post-16423-0-14353000-1434927447_thumb.jpg

 

post-16423-0-09242400-1434927474_thumb.jpg

I still have the destination box to make and fill in where the lights were.

 

Behind the 114 is a very old conversion of a 110 into a Derby 108, it is no where near as good as a Bachmann model but as I made it, it will be run alongside the three Bachmann ones I have.

post-16423-0-24011800-1434927643_thumb.jpg

One day I will replace the ventilators and smarten up those yella panels.

 

Next up are some Metro-Cammel variations. I am making a 4 car unit, with buffet car, a 2 car class 111 and altering the front ends of some other driving cars. All these are Lima/Limby models.

post-16423-0-94932100-1434927776_thumb.jpg

The early version of the 101 with the four lamps. I have done 3 driving cars like this.

 

post-16423-0-62535600-1434928315_thumb.jpg

The Class 111 with four figure route indicator, the cab glazing cracked when I was removing it.

 

post-16423-0-85545100-1434928382_thumb.jpg

A TBS, for the 4 car unit. It is made up from bits from a DMBS and a TC. The chassis is from a DMBS with the engine gubbins cut of and the under belly bits from the TC were used to fill in the gap. Unlike the Hornby 110 centre cars you cannot just pop in a motor.

 

post-16423-0-53161300-1434928592_thumb.jpg

Start has been made to the buffet car, the bars have been removed from the glazing on the two windows that were plated over behind the buffet counter. 

 

The Hornby 110 does lend itself to quite a few conversions here is my lastest, a Gloucester class 100.

post-16423-0-96439500-1434928792_thumb.jpg

 

post-16423-0-39367700-1434928813_thumb.jpg

 

Still loads to be done, and I have not forgot the 125 but not much has been done on it.

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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  • 3 weeks later...

A fascinating and informative thread - as others have said great to see some real modelling. If I may a couple of questions.

 

In your 110 to 104 conversion, I wondered if the glazing (except for the cab fronts) can be refitted after the work and any painting, as presumably the size of the window apertures doesn't change, just the rim on the surface is removed?

 

I've recently picked up a couple of Hornby DMU's on Ebay - a Limby 101 and a 110. They both have a power bogie that looks very like the Bachmann one in the 105 & 108, although I haven't opened the actual casing to take a closer look. I wondered if this is a new style bogie, it runs very well and I can see no reason why anyone would wish to replace it?

 

As can be gathered from the questions, I'm very much a DMU novice. It does strike me as funny/ ironic that the early ones should now be the subject of so much interest, when decades ago they often provoked scorn from many platform enders - but then of course so did a lot of diesel locos!

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

John.

Edited by John Tomlinson
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A fascinating and informative thread - as others have said great to see some real modelling. If I may a couple of questions.

 

In your 110 to 104 conversion, I wondered if the glazing (except for the cab fronts) can be refitted after the work and any painting, as presumably the size of the window apertures doesn't change, just the rim on the surface is removed?

 

I've recently picked up a couple of Hornby DMU's on Ebay - a Limby 101 and a 110. They both have a power bogie that looks very like the Bachmann one in the 105 & 108, although I haven't opened the actual casing to take a closer look. I wondered if this is a new style bogie, it runs very well and I can see no reason why anyone would wish to replace it?

 

As can be gathered from the questions, I'm very much a DMU novice. It does strike me as funny/ ironic that the early ones should now be the subject of so much interest, when decades ago they often provoked scorn from many platform enders - but then of course so did a lot of diesel locos!

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

John.

Hi John.

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

The glazing on the 104 just fits in, with the beading removed it has a very good flush look.

 

I have some Hornby 101s with the new power unit. To date I have not taken them apart as they run OK. Gone are the days when I use to take things apart to "have a look inside".

 

I must be one of the few who always liked DMUs. I use to enjoy travelling on them despite the smells and noise, that view from the front was great. When trainspotting trying to get the numbers of all 6 Swindon Cross Country coaches as they whizzed past Bedford on the fast lines was a challenge. They were a major part of the railway in the 60s and 70s so to me they are a must to be modelled. I still have a pile of half built MTK kits that I may never finish. I don't think the magazine editors of the 60 s and 70s helped, There would be a photo with a steam loco and a DMU, the caption would give loads of details of the loco and it may or may not even mention "and a DMU". I suppose we railway modellers are no different to the rest of society, you only take interest in things when they are gone. 

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Hi Clive,

 

Many thanks for your reply. This afternoon I have been dismantling my 110 and realise that in fact it has a traditional Hornby Ringfield motor. (Note to self - check facts before typing on keyboard!) Nonetheless it runs well and is more than good enough for me.

 

Your last paragraph is very interesting, and I would certainly agree as far as the view is concerned. One memory for me was my only trip through the Woodhead tunnel on a Sunday diversion in 1975 - I was behind the driver and will never forget being amazed by the lights in the tunnel as we stormed through! As a teenager at the end of steam I'd go even further - as well as magazines I found many older enthusiasts very dismissive of modern traction and it was as if the world stopped in August '68. I think a lot of younger folk must have been lost to the hobby at the time, who with a bit of encouragement would probably still be in now.

 

John.

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The "Limby" motor bogie is excellent when it has all wheel pickup and is used in suitable applications (1-2 car). I've recently finished an upgrade of a Hornby 101 and adaption to 2 car and am very pleased with the results though running is not quite as immaculate as in my 153s and 156 which don't "benefit" from traction tyres. Running was noticeably less good when the poor thing was asked to shift 3 cars

 

I remember in the 1970s you were liable to be put down fast and hard by enthusiasts if you suggested there was anything that wasn't terminally wrong with then current scene.

 

I think the lack of interest in DMU's is partly attributable to the fact that Modernisation Plan units weren't really spottable as they didn't have unit numbers  

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The "Limby" motor bogie is excellent when it has all wheel pickup and is used in suitable applications (1-2 car). I've recently finished an upgrade of a Hornby 101 and adaption to 2 car and am very pleased with the results though running is not quite as immaculate as in my 153s and 156 which don't "benefit" from traction tyres. Running was noticeably less good when the poor thing was asked to shift 3 cars

 

I remember in the 1970s you were liable to be put down fast and hard by enthusiasts if you suggested there was anything that wasn't terminally wrong with then current scene.

 

I think the lack of interest in DMU's is partly attributable to the fact that Modernisation Plan units weren't really spottable as they didn't have unit numbers  

 

 

Western Region ones did though

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The "Limby" motor bogie is excellent when it has all wheel pickup and is used in suitable applications (1-2 car). I've recently finished an upgrade of a Hornby 101 and adaption to 2 car and am very pleased with the results though running is not quite as immaculate as in my 153s and 156 which don't "benefit" from traction tyres. Running was noticeably less good when the poor thing was asked to shift 3 cars

 

I remember in the 1970s you were liable to be put down fast and hard by enthusiasts if you suggested there was anything that wasn't terminally wrong with then current scene.

 

I think the lack of interest in DMU's is partly attributable to the fact that Modernisation Plan units weren't really spottable as they didn't have unit numbers  

I disagree about not being spottable owing to the lack of unit numbers. DMU coaches on the NER, ER, LMR, and ScR tended to be swapped around quite often and not kept in fixed units. Ok it meant writting six numbers as you copped a Transpennine unit not just one........to many of us six numbers was more spottable than one number on the end like them SR EMUs, and that was six under linings in your combine not one. :good:

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Eventually.

 

Chris

 

I should clarify this.  WR units had set numbers painted on the driving cabs no earlier than the late 1960s.  Before that they carried small plates on the solebars giving set numbers which indicated the allocated depot and the type of set.  Depot codes were: LA for Laira, SHL Southall, RDG Reading, BL Bristol, CAT Cardiff Cathays, CDF Cardiff Canton, TYS Tyseley.   Single units were numbered from 100, 3 car suburban units with first class from 300, 2 or 3 car suburban units second class only from 400, Cross Country sets from 500, Cross Country power twins from 600 and Inter City sets [later Class 123] from 700. 

 

This was a bit of a palaver when sets were reallocated and/or reformed.  There appear to be no official records much before 1964 and any records published were down to vigilant members of the RCTS.

 

Chris

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I disagree about not being spottable owing to the lack of unit numbers. DMU coaches on the NER, ER, LMR, and ScR tended to be swapped around quite often and not kept in fixed units. Ok it meant writting six numbers as you copped a Transpennine unit not just one........to many of us six numbers was more spottable than one number on the end like them SR EMUs, and that was six under linings in your combine not one. :good:

 

More skill involved, as well!

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One of the delights of travelling in modernisation DMUs was the view out the front windows. One of the downsides of model DMUs, I can see inside through most windows. Now do I place passengers and crew in them or not?

 

A driver in the lead cab seems to be a must. However Sheffield Exchange is a terminus station so I need a driver in the rear cab as this becomes the front on its next move. Another consideration is when I run two units in multiple, the two middle cab would have drivers in them because they would be the lead cabs if the units were on their own.

 

Should I go down the crew and passenger route which figures do I use, or do I make my own? If I make my own how detailed do they need to be?

 

I will also have to crew my locomotives, in the past I have not as my layouts have been of depots. Now I have some steam locos the tender ones do scream where is my driver and fireman?

 

With compartment loco hauled coaches I do not always notice they are missing their passengers but if I populate the DMUs it might notice there is no passengers in the suburban coaches next to them.

 

Something to ponder.

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And then there is the cost at even a modest 10 people per coach.

You better start saving your pocket money.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Milliput-Standard-Yellow-Grey-113-4g-Pack/dp/B011H1FKJQ

Making your own is not to expensive http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73321-scale-figures/?p=1080594

Another approach would be to glaze the units as it is harder to see passengers once the glass is in.

 

Cheeky so and so.

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