DMU conversions for Sheffield Exchange

[MJI]

Hi John

 

Hijack away..............we have just put our house on the market so I doubt I will be modelling very much in the near future so feel free to share your modelling, there are not many of us DMU modellers.

 

 

Actually how many are there on here?

[peak experience]

Further to my last post, I've been spraying the seven 104 bodies today. Sadly further action with filler and sanding will be needed before proceeding to the finishing coats.

 

I've attached four pictures that might be of interest;

 

Overview

A pair of cab ends showing defects around the re-formed windows and domes

The TBSL in the area of the join - tumblehome crease needs further attention

Interiors remodelled for the seven, drivers cabs sprayed white, also seat mouldings that were in blue are painted white as undercoat

 

The eight bodies used all came from Ebay in various states, after removing windowframes, tumble home creases and refashioning the end windows and the domes I decided to strip the little remaining paint to give a clean start, hence the bare shells.

 

I'm not sure I should be hijacking Clive's thread, and will gladly move if he wishes.

 

IMG_1068 copy2.jpgIMG_1071 copy.jpgIMG_1073 copy.jpgIMG_1075 copy.jpg

 

John

Hi John,

What livery will they be finished in?

 

[John Tomlinson]

The plan is for the three car (LMR) set to be in early DMU green, probably with whiskers, and for the four car (ER) set to carry Brunswick with small yellow panels.

 

I tend to allow several days, sometimes even a couple of weeks between colours when masking is involved, as I find it deeply annoying to have to go back to stage 1 if removing tape also removes the paint underneath! Plus there is marking the window frames on the Hornby glazing in green.

 

Another thing that will take some while is the lining. Each coach has two bands that go almost all the way round. The circumference of the real thing is around 132 feet, equivalent to 21 inches on a model, so 42 inches per coach times 7 comes to just over 24 feet. Which is quite a lot of lining transfer to apply accurately. 

 

Probably a way of saying that I don't expect a final result that quickly!

 

John.

[peak experience]

I'm doing one in blue at the moment and i can't think of a way to do the window bars. I've sprayed it using Humbrol acrylic and that wont adhere to the plastic Hornby used on their windows for this model. I'm not sure how to proceed. I've a feeling if i use an oil based paint that the colour/sheen will differ and it'll look wrong. I guess i've no choice really but to try it.

[John Tomlinson]

I'm doing one in blue at the moment and i can't think of a way to do the window bars. I've sprayed it using Humbrol acrylic and that wont adhere to the plastic Hornby used on their windows for this model. I'm not sure how to proceed. I've a feeling if i use an oil based paint that the colour/sheen will differ and it'll look wrong. I guess i've no choice really but to try it.

Another option is the Edding range of overhead projector markers - their ref 140S, superfine tip. They do various greens, so possibly blues as well, and they make nice straight lines if used against a ruler. They are water repellant - and this does seem to work on test  - but can be removed with white spirit. I've used the silver ones for highlighting window frames and the like. Our local quality stationer, in my case Colemans in Stamford Lincolnshire, stock them and so similar retailers near you could be a place to look.

 

John.

[peak experience]

Alas, it doesn't seem to look like there's a blue that matches the shade BR used on their diesels.

[Clive Mortimore]

Despite having to be prepared for moving soonish, I have been naughty and got out the Derby 4 car unit.

 

First up is the TBS

 

Two shots of the DMC with the motor block in it, I am not too sure how much it notices. Knowing it is there makes it stand out more.

 

Finally the whole train arriving at Sheffield Exchange.

 

 

[richard i]

Has it been windy in the man shed? The buildings look to have taken a battering

[Clive Mortimore]

Has it been windy in the man shed? The buildings look to have taken a battering

Hi Richard

 

I had just got the manshed how I wanted it , then "We are going to move, can't have this junk in the house". I can only just move in the manshed.

[John Tomlinson]

Alas, it doesn't seem to look like there's a blue that matches the shade BR used on their diesels.

At risk of sounding very cavalier, you might find that a precise match isn't necessary. I'm an occasional bus modeller, mainly '60's & '70's stuff, with a great range of reds and maroons from the fleets in my native Lancashire. There's no way I'd find lining transfer to match precisely, but strangely for thin lines differences in shade don't notice. I'm hoping that the Edding pens will have the same feature - with these in any case the colour can be darkened by applying another coat.

 

The other thought I had was that as the frames are raised a light sand with fine wet and dry might rough up the surface enough for paint to stick. A backstop position for me if the Edding pens don't do it.

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

Hi Richard

 

I had just got the manshed how I wanted it , then "We are going to move, can't have this junk in the house". I can only just move in the manshed.

The four car 108 looks great and the join on the sides is not visible at all. Quick wash of dark gray on the roof and that would vanish too.

 

Might have to see if Hatton's have any three car units left...

 

Good luck with your move,

 

John.

[Norm81]

R.e discussions on window bars, I have a blue/grey 2 car 108 with them on. Basically it's three runs of handrail wire per window, can get a photo if there's interest.

 

Despite having to be prepared for moving soonish, I have been naughty and got out the Derby 4 car unit.

 

First up is the TBS

002a.jpg]

Is it a TBS or a TBS(L)? As it still has the toilet I think?

 

I recently tried to sell my plain blue 3 car 108, but with no interest it looks like it's going to get chopped up to make a TBS(L). I was just going to cut and replace the areas on the side of the centre car without cutting the roof, is there any reason you did a complete cut and shut?

[Clive Mortimore]

R.e discussions on window bars, I have a blue/grey 2 car 108 with them on. Basically it's three runs of handrail wire per window, can get a photo if there's interest.

 

Is it a TBS or a TBS(L)? As it still has the toilet I think?

 

I recently tried to sell my plain blue 3 car 108, but with no interest it looks like it's going to get chopped up to make a TBS(L). I was just going to cut and replace the areas on the side of the centre car without cutting the roof, is there any reason you did a complete cut and shut?

Hi Norm

 

There are always different ways to achieve the same result, and to me two cuts seemed easier than cutting away the sides. I never seem to get the join along the cant rail right it always has big holes and is wongy.

 

I never bother to put the (L) on coach formations.

[Norm81]

Hi Norm

 

There are always different ways to achieve the same result, and to me two cuts seemed easier than cutting away the sides. I never seem to get the join along the cant rail right it always has big holes and is wongy.

 

I never bother to put the (L) on coach formations.

Hi Clive,

 

I always worry I'll cut the two bodyshells at ever so slightly off-square even using a mitre block, the result being a slight dogleg in the coach. Yours looks very well executed, but I may still cut away the sides. I'll oversize the sections removed from the driving car on all sides and slowly file down to fit. I guess we each have our own way we're happiest with, though this will be my first attempt at this sort of modification.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Clive,

 

I always worry I'll cut the two bodyshells at ever so slightly off-square even using a mitre block, the result being a slight dogleg in the coach. Yours looks very well executed, but I may still cut away the sides. I'll oversize the sections removed from the driving car on all sides and slowly file down to fit. I guess we each have our own way we're happiest with, though this will be my first attempt at this sort of modification.

Hi Norm

 

I do sometimes cut away the sides and reposition parts, I have done so with the class 125 conversion.

 

With the Derby TBS, and others where I cut the body into two (or more) parts I use a "U" shaped strip of brass. I bent this up many moons ago so I could score panel lines on diesel loco roofs. I now use it when ever I need a "straight" edge that goes transversely over a coach or loco roof. 

[richard i]

Hi Norm

 

I do sometimes cut away the sides and reposition parts, I have done so with the class 125 conversion.

 

With the Derby TBS, and others where I cut the body into two (or more) parts I use a "U" shaped strip of brass. I bent this up many moons ago so I could score panel lines on diesel loco roofs. I now use it when ever I need a "straight" edge that goes transversely over a coach or loco roof.

 

Clever boy.

[Clive Mortimore]

Ok not DMUs but I have had them running on Sheffield Exchange, a class 307 and 308 EMUs. Both units are being built from Replica Mk1 suburbans. The 308 has been hanging about for yonks but the 307 is new. The cabs on the 307 are from Replica MLV which they sell as spares, Ideal for that 501 unit you want to make from Bachmann short underframe Mk1 suburbans.

 

The Class 307, or as us old folk like to call them AM7s were built as Southend Line stock, operating from 1500v Dc OLE. On conversion of the OLE these were rebuilt and the pantograph and the brake van end were moved from the Motor Brake Second to the Driver Trailer Second. This coach also carried the transformers to convert 25 Kva to 1500 V Dc. The Motor Brake Second had the brake section replaced by two additional compartments, it retained all the motor and control gear.

Driving Trailer Brake Second, these were built as Driving Trailer Seconds.

 

Motor Second, body wise the easiest conversion. It is powered at the moment with a Hornby class 110 DMU power bogie, this is temporary until Replica get some of their wonderful EMU/DMU powered long underframes in stock.

 

Trailer Composite Semi-open Lavatory, The first class compartments should be 1 and a bit mm longer and the lavatory smaller but the amount of work involved to do so would hardly notice. Most people wouldn't know until someone was to point this out.

 

Driving Trailer Second Open Lavatory.

 

A sight that often greeted the commuters at Liverpool Street heading home to the wilds of Essex

 

The AM8s Driver Trailer Second Open Lavatory. The cabs on this unit are scratch built. When I photographed them I used the flash and it has taken out some of the cab front detail. 

 

Motor Brake Second, it too has a Hornby DMU temporary power unit. The Southend (Class 307) sets had a similar vehicle when first built.

 

The Trailer Composite Semi-Open Lavatory, basically the coach was found in all 4 car Mk1 EMUs.

 

The Driver Trailer Second.

 

I have run both units up and down Sheffield Exchange, thought about the OLE then thought these could be part of another layout were all those nice GER based diesels I have could run with them.

 

I took the two units to the Witham club on Monday. At first there was the normal mickey take as they were not RTR steam locos but once they were running together as an 8 car train it was like being in a old folks home when the occupational therapist is holding a reminiscing session. All the retired ones started to talk about all the years they spent commuting on the GER EMUs. Living history. :sungum:

Edited July 16, 2016 by Clive Mortimore

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Love the work on here, it's everything I wish I could do! I have neither the money, time or experience to be able to do cut-and-shut operations on coaches or DMUs.

Just a brief question, as I wasn't around back then, what type/s of DMU would be relevant for a Scottish Region station in 1956-1960 and 1962-1966?

 

Look forward to more updates!

 

Peter

 

Edited to add details as probably more relevant here than on the Sheffield Exchange thread

Edited July 17, 2016 by 60012 Commonwealth of Australia

[Clive Mortimore]

I have really caught the EMU bug. I came home from John Dutfield's Model Railways with some Tri-ang Mk1s and a Hatchet Mk1 second with an idea of doing a AM9 (Walton version, without buffet). I started to work out where the cuts would have to go to make the Driving Composites. BANG went something in my head, you cannot have just a four car on its own past Thorpe-le-Soken. So on to e-bay and more Tri-ang coaches for a AM9 (Clacton version, with buffet), Bachmann Commonwealth bogies, 2 Class 21/29 underframes, loads of South Eastern Finecast flush glazing and the new Hornby mk1 gangways. 

 

Plan is to cut and shut the sides. Cut the ends off the underframes and glue these and the sides to the roofs. I am going to do this so that when I make the cabs on the DTCs the whole body will be in one piece. it might prove easier to do this with the MBSK as well. This only leaves the Buffet so do the same again.

 

I had hoped that by the end of this weekend I would have at least done the work relating to the sides of the coaches, possibly have them cemented to the roofs along with the ends. Life got in the way again so all I have manged to do is make cut the sides. The DTC with its sides made up was done last weekend.

 

Driving Trailer semi-open Composite, corridor side. One of these is for the Driver Trailer Composite Open, the DTC that was attached to the Buffet car in the Clacton unit.

 

Driving Trailer semi-open Composite, compartment side.

 

Non-Driving Motor Brakes Second Corridor. Top is the compartment sides and below is the corridor sides. Unlike many Mk1s and the EMUs based on them the brake ends do not match up.

 

The Griddle car, called griddle cars on the diagram, and in all the books I have but they were always lettered Buffet.

 

One of the four DTC awaiting its cab to be made.

 

I have chosen the class 21/29 to power the units, the bogies on the MBSK were heavier construction than the trailer cars and I think modifying the 21/29 bogies, which were a Commonwealth design will be easier than trying to make the Bachmann ones look heavier and fitting them to a power bogie.

 

When (If) I finish them they will be in maroon. This means they will have the curved windscreens. I have already thought about these, plastic packaging often has radiused edged corners, who cares what is in the package when it comes from the pound shop.

 

As a by product from the Buffet I will have another BG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Signaller69]

Brilliant, love these sort of projects which combine recycling old models whilst at the same time producing a model that is either not available commercially or much improved over the original model, not to mention not costing an arm and a leg (hopefully!). Will watch with interest!

[MJI]

Well I am now going to recommend a lot more work.

 

Replica glazing.

 

I managed to flush glaze a RMB using it, looks really good.

 

Works quite well on Triang stock.

[Clive Mortimore]

Well I am now going to recommend a lot more work.

 

Replica glazing.

 

I managed to flush glaze a RMB using it, looks really good.

 

Works quite well on Triang stock.

Hi Martin

 

I will stick with what I have for the moment. if it looks rubbish then a rethink.

[Titan]

Hi Martin

 

I will stick with what I have for the moment. if it looks rubbish then a rethink.

 

Clive, it just so happens you are undertaking something which has been on my 'to do' list for far too long - got all the doner vehicles I need, plus four cabs from Britannia pacific IIRC. Plan is to make one 2 car and one four car with griddle. I will be watching very closely!

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive, it just so happens you are undertaking something which has been on my 'to do' list for far too long - got all the doner vehicles I need, plus four cabs from Britannia pacific IIRC. Plan is to make one 2 car and one four car with griddle. I will be watching very closely!

 

 

Ian, not making your own cabs. I don't know next your be saying you do not turn your own wheels. Today's modellers.

[MJI]

Hi Martin

 

I will stick with what I have for the moment. if it looks rubbish then a rethink.

 

 

If SE Finecast vac form stuff, doesn't look that good with vent windows. Will be Comet siding my LImas do flush glaze them