DMU conversions for Sheffield Exchange

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Clive,

Nice work with those cab fronts being such a complex shape, they are really starting to capture the look nicely. Will you be using a Replica chassis in this one?

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn

 

 

Thank you. It will be powered by a Replica chassis. I think they are great for us modellers who use BR standard 63 ft 6ins and 57ft chassis under our DMU and EMU models.

[Clive Mortimore]

 

Whoops the above was meant to be added to the last post, it shows the overhanging waste has been filed away.

 

Now the roof dome and headcode box. Using 40 thou (1mm) plastic card I build up layers on the top support. Note they slowly get smaller width wise as they go up, this saves on the filing. They are all 7mm long, they are "T" shaped so the tail end can go inside the roof. note I got carried away with one of them.

 

After the glue has set I filed the plastic card to the shape of the roof. 

 

I marked the sides of the headcode box and then started to file the dome shape.

 

Remember to brush off the filings before taking the photo.

 

 

Cody messing about.

 

Tomorrow I will take photos of the changes I am making to the coach sides.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

The next set of photos will hopefully be self explanatory of where I have filled in windows and where I have made new windows. I use 40 thou (1mm) plastic card for this procedure. 

 

Driving Brake Second Open

 

Trailer Composite Lavatory Semi Open

Compartment side

Corridor side, note the large window in the corridor between the doors to the second and third First Class compartments. This is not always easy to see in photos of the trains.

 

Motor Brake Second Open

This coach is mounted on a Replica EMU/DMU powered underframe, note the motors are below the window line.

 

Battery Driving Second Open Lavatory

 

 

 

 

 

[Northmoor]

A cup of coffee while I write this episode.

 

Next is the two outer lower panels, these have a cut out for the multiple unit jumper housings.  The backing for the cut out needs to be added before the panels are glued to the coaches.

100_4590a.jpg

100_4591a.jpg

 

I make the outer panels a little longer than need be, They over hang the sides a tad. This is so I can file them to fit the curvature of the sides.

100_4592a.jpg

 

It now gets a bit tricky, so far every thing has been square, the outer top panels are not and neither are the windows. To find out how much out of square they are I place a known right angled piece of plastic card as in the photo and measure the gap. this is how much out of square I need to mark the next sets of panels.

100_4594a.jpg

 

I mark and cut out the panels. When cutting out windows with rounded corners I make a diagonal cut across the corner, later I file the curve in the corner.

100_4595a.jpg

 

Again I make the longer than need be.

100_4596a.jpg

Excellent effort making those complex shaped cab fronts.  Apologies if this has been asked before but could you not use cabs from DC Kits?  I've got a 304 kit which I've not started and they look good to me (you may think otherwise), but this also assumes Charlie will sell them individually......

[Clive Mortimore]

Excellent effort making those complex shaped cab fronts.  Apologies if this has been asked before but could you not use cabs from DC Kits?  I've got a 304 kit which I've not started and they look good to me (you may think otherwise), but this also assumes Charlie will sell them individually......

Hi

 

Many moons ago I was making a cab for a Derby class 107 (Hornby 110 conversion) on a demo stand at a show. Charlie walked by saying " I could have sold you a pair of them". My reply was "Where's the fun in not making them yourself". "Please yourself" as he walked off.  I do enjoy having a go at building my own bits and bobs. If someone uses a part from another source to achieve the same result, excellent.  The hobby is about enjoying the bits you like doing.

[Kelly]

Excellent effort making those complex shaped cab fronts.  Apologies if this has been asked before but could you not use cabs from DC Kits?  I've got a 304 kit which I've not started and they look good to me (you may think otherwise), but this also assumes Charlie will sell them individually......

 

Also assumes he has them, they had a big factory fire and lost a lot of stock iirc. So potentially only occasional parts available.

[Kelly]

Hi

 

Many moons ago I was making a cab for a Derby class 107 (Hornby 110 conversion) on a demo stand at a show. Charlie walked by saying " I could have sold you a pair of them". My reply was "Where's the fun in not making them yourself". "Please yourself" as he walked off.  I do enjoy having a go at building my own bits and bobs. If someone uses a part from another source to achieve the same result, excellent.  The hobby is about enjoying the bits you like doing.

 

I agree, I could get a VEP or an EPB from Bachmann or Hornby (in fact I have a couple of Bachmann EPBs), but I like the challenge of making my own (Replica roof/end/cab/underframe + MJT sides).

 

Same with Networker 466 to 465, I've a lot of spare bodies to make a couple of 4 car units.

 

I could do with some 170 shells to try to make them into 37x units.

[Kelly]

In the case of CEP/VEP/TC and others with gangways I need to think how to do the cabs. Either hack the Replica cabs with an MJT gangway (the MJT cabs aren't that great really), or probably better attempt to get some 3D printed (and the bogies too probably).

[Captain Kernow]

Top banana, old chap!

 

What ingenuity, they're looking really good.

[chrisf]

On another thread I have just berated the world at large for being lazy.  You, Clive, are an honourable exception!

 

Chris

[Clive Mortimore]

On another thread I have just berated the world at large for being lazy.  You, Clive, are an honourable exception!

 

Chris

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks, Mrs M might have another view.

[Signaller69]

The AM4 really is capturing the look of the real thing, far moreso than the Lima 117 chop-shop-with-MTK-cabs version I did a very long time ago. Very nice work.

[Northmoor]

Hi

 

Many moons ago I was making a cab for a Derby class 107 (Hornby 110 conversion) on a demo stand at a show. Charlie walked by saying " I could have sold you a pair of them". My reply was "Where's the fun in not making them yourself". "Please yourself" as he walked off.  I do enjoy having a go at building my own bits and bobs. If someone uses a part from another source to achieve the same result, excellent.  The hobby is about enjoying the bits you like doing.

Can't argue with that.  Although cutting and shutting carriages to the extent you have would be more than enough challenge for me!

 

More power to your elbow.  And to your eyes and fingers....

[Brian Kirby]

Looking good there Clive, but . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . you haven't altered what will become the three first-class compartments on your Trailer Composite, these should each be 5 to 6 inches wider per compartment. As you will no doubt already know, most second-class compartments are 6'3.5" wide, which squeeze down to 6'2" in certain cases, but one inch difference isn't noticeable, however first-class compartments on a Class 304 are 6'8" wide, which are noticeably broader, and are easily spotted in a train. You could cut out this section, separate each one, re-affix them individually to the body, then fill in the gaps, or is that just for fussy nutters like me? Of course Messrs Bachmann and Replica have been flogging their Compartment Seconds labelled up as "Composites" for years now, how do these people sleep at night?!

    On your newly-cut large square windows, you've got a lot of work ahead, adding the external window frames somehow, which at the same time would give the end uprights a prototypically sturdier look, than the usual compartment windows. On the whole though, this is a quicker and easier way of building certain units, I do have a half-built Class 307 unit myself, knocking around somewhere, using these same body shells. 

    I'm afraid i'm not a fan of the Replica motorized chassis with the raised false floor. With all the work involved in building emus, I at least want to see a full-depth interior, with the option of unmutilated passengers added. Not keen on Replica's suburban seating mouldings either, with great big chunks of seat missing, to allow for the body clip-fits. Grumble, grumble, moan, moan.

                                                                       Cheers, Brian.

[Clive Mortimore]

Looking good there Clive, but . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . you haven't altered what will become the three first-class compartments on your Trailer Composite, these should each be 5 to 6 inches wider per compartment. As you will no doubt already know, most second-class compartments are 6'3.5" wide, which squeeze down to 6'2" in certain cases, but one inch difference isn't noticeable, however first-class compartments on a Class 304 are 6'8" wide, which are noticeably broader, and are easily spotted in a train. You could cut out this section, separate each one, re-affix them individually to the body, then fill in the gaps, or is that just for fussy nutters like me? Of course Messrs Bachmann and Replica have been flogging their Compartment Seconds labelled up as "Composites" for years now, how do these people sleep at night?!

    On your newly-cut large square windows, you've got a lot of work ahead, adding the external window frames somehow, which at the same time would give the end uprights a prototypically sturdier look, than the usual compartment windows. On the whole though, this is a quicker and easier way of building certain units, I do have a half-built Class 307 unit myself, knocking around somewhere, using these same body shells. 

    I'm afraid i'm not a fan of the Replica motorized chassis with the raised false floor. With all the work involved in building emus, I at least want to see a full-depth interior, with the option of unmutilated passengers added. Not keen on Replica's suburban seating mouldings either, with great big chunks of seat missing, to allow for the body clip-fits. Grumble, grumble, moan, moan.

                                                                       Cheers, Brian.

Thanks Brian

 

The composites, I did consider altering the first class compartment lengths. I have done so when converting Airfix LMS non-corridor stock to the types without the loo, it is a lot of work to get neat for something that in my mind does not show up readily on a moving train.

 

The Replica chassis is an easy way of motorizing a coach. In the past I have used Lima and Hornby bogies, these need some sort of mounting and to be hidden in the brake section, both methods have their down sides. Black Beatles won't pull themselves along, they struggle with a 3 car train. Tenshodo motor bogies shred their gears on the second circuit so both those types are not in the equation.

 

I haven't even thought too much about the interiors. The 307, 302 and 308 with their compartment walls make the insides quite dark and the small windows make it hard to see inside so I don't think the Replica chassis will be too much of a problem. As for the 304 and 305 with them big windows and open saloons?

 

I am going to leave the window surrounds off, I don't think I could make a good job of it. In photos of the real things the window surrounds don't show up very well only in certain lighting. If they are made of too thick a material they can end looking like beading on a paneled coach. And the thought of cutting yards of 5 thou plastic card half a millimeter wide scares me. If someone was to make a decent etch of each type of unit then the window surrounds would be incorporated.

 

The hardest part is finding out what the equipment under the motors coaches looks like as each class has a different supplier of electrical gear.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[cctransuk]

The Black Beatles won't pull themselves along, the(y) struggle with a 3 car train.

 

Not my experience - I have a pair in the power cars of a Kitmaster 6-car Midland Pullman, and they run very satisfactorily.

 

The DO need plenty of lead in the vicinity of the power bogie to get good traction.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Clive Mortimore]

Not my experience - I have a pair in the power cars of a Kitmaster 6-car Midland Pullman, and they run very satisfactorily.

 

The DO need plenty of lead in the vicinity of the power bogie to get good traction.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Hi John

 

I have helped my friend with his layout where he had a large number of DC kits EMUs with Black Beetles and with some of the 4 car units they struggled to get out the fiddle yard. True they might have benefited with some weight in the coaches. Looking at a class 305 MBSO there isn't much room for any lead by the time you have raised the floor for the Black Beetle unless you go for a false floor in the passenger saloon. If you do that you might as well go for a Replica chassis which will run smoother and haul a lot more than a Black Beetle.  

 

[cctransuk]

Hi John

 

I have helped my friend with his layout where he had a large number of DC kits EMUs with Black Beetles and with some of the 4 car units they struggled to get out the fiddle yard. True they might have benefited with some weight in the coaches. Looking at a class 305 MBSO there isn't much room for any lead by the time you have raised the floor for the Black Beetle unless you go for a false floor in the passenger saloon. If you do that you might as well go for a Replica chassis which will run smoother and haul a lot more than a Black Beetle.  

 

006a.jpg

 

Clive,

 

I line the walls and ceiling with roofing lead - so long as it's transferring its weight to the Black Beetle, all should be fine.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have put the AM4 in its box for a moment. Last night and today I have done some more work on the AM9 units, basically the cab fronts.

The coaches are from left to right, AM9/1 DMBSK (Clacton 2 car), AM9/2 DTCO (Clacton Buffet 4 car), AM9/3 DTC semi open (Walton 4 car), AM9/3 DTC semi open (Walton 4 car), AM9/2 DTC semi open (Clacton Buffet 4 car), and AM9/1 DTSO (Clacton 2car). All six driving coaches for a full 10 car train.

 

 

[cheesysmith]

Come on, you need to show what cut and shuts are required for those 309s. Looks like a good use of some spare mk1 coaches to me.

[Clive Mortimore]

Come on, you need to show what cut and shuts are required for those 309s. Looks like a good use of some spare mk1 coaches to me.

Hi Cheesy

 

Drop back a couple of pages, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93301-dmu-conversions-for-sheffield-exchange/?p=2400815

 

I used Tri-ang coaches, they are easily cut about, they are cheep, plenty still around and hopefully when finished will look good enough for me. Biggest thing is they are fun to do and as I have no time constraints I can pick them up when I am in the mood.

 

I didn't photograph the 2 car unit bits 'n' bobs.

[Clive Mortimore]

Yesterday I built the prototype chassis for the 309s. I am going to use Hornby Class 29 bogies, these are a Commonwealth bogie. They will need to be modified but I think they will represent the heavier power bogie the motor coaches had compared to the normal coaching stock Commonwealth bogie. The chassis needs to feature the trench along the edge so the Tri-ang bodysides can clip into. There would be too much cutting to alter a Tri-ang chassis and looking at the Class 29 chassis I don't think just making it longer would work that well. So out with some nice 40 thou plastic card and I soon had a running chassis which I could mount the body of a motor coach. 

 

I had the two car unit running. :locomotive:   Always helps the mojo when you see something going backwards and forwards. Trouble is Pig Lane (WR) is only 6 ft 8 1/2 inches long so as soon as it starts it has to stop.

[Kelly]

Yesterday I built the prototype chassis for the 309s. I am going to use Hornby Class 29 bogies, these are a Commonwealth bogie. They will need to be modified but I think they will represent the heavier power bogie the motor coaches had compared to the normal coaching stock Commonwealth bogie. The chassis needs to feature the trench along the edge so the Tri-ang bodysides can clip into. There would be too much cutting to alter a Tri-ang chassis and looking at the Class 29 chassis I don't think just making it longer would work that well. So out with some nice 40 thou plastic card and I soon had a running chassis which I could mount the body of a motor coach. 

 

I had the two car unit running. :locomotive:   Always helps the mojo when you see something going backwards and forwards. Trouble is Pig Lane (WR) is only 6 ft 8 1/2 inches long so as soon as it starts it has to stop.

 

If you find you need other sources of power, PetersSpares usually have various power bogies available at reasonable prices (BIL power bogies for instance).

 

Not sure if you've seen these (no good to you now probably, but for others reading perhaps):

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK1-BASED-EMU-CAST-UNDERFRAME-PARTS-SUITABLE-FOR-CLASS-302-309-EMU-S-/263238151682?hash=item3d4a376e02:g:wZYAAOSwMmBVjxwL

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/class-309-emu-resin-cab-end-oo-scale-unrefurbished-original-wrap-around-windows-/263238150441?hash=item3d4a376929:g:i5wAAOSwQiRUptCf

 

I've one of the sellers 508 cabs and they look pretty good to me. The seller did have 309 cast bogies available at one point too.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Kelly

[Signaller69]

Looks like a major job with all those 309s on the go Clive! Good idea doing a batch build too, they are looking good.

Martyn.

[cheesysmith]

Excuse the stupid question, but do the tri ang coaches have separate sides and ends/roofs like the Bachmann one do?

 

Also, the question about the cut and shuts is more along what bits were used where. I can see that the driving coach is 3 first windows and 4 standard, but I was trying to work out what coaches would be needed to chop up to make these.