The Lilleshall Company a little known industrial railway

[wagonbasher]

My wagons have now arrived and the lettering is excellent. The base wagons are from Dapol and 2 of them have steel under frames making them post 1923, but not sure about the timber framed one.1DBF9BC2-C068-4AC6-8C58-5CB265E81C50.jpeg79E8A065-1F7A-41B8-98FB-947A99DB4621.jpeg1D7C62D6-9B61-4D4E-96E4-AF74116AC069.jpeg

The photos seem to have turned through 90 degrees and I don’t know how to solve that!

David

 

ONe small criticism I would have, and very easily fixed if you want to is the interior colour, especially when the external livery is so good. Wooden wagons were not painted internally. THis means that the natural wood would have been a light grey, brown colour. MArtyl Welch book the art of weathering will tell you how accurately paint natural wood but even a paint of a grey / brown paint would be better than black.

 

Andy

[Regularity]

I start with white, then add a number of very thin washes, mostly grey, but including at least one each of cream (wood is pale, but usually has some yellowish tinge), red oxide (a bit of warmth) and a mid brown. I then finish off with a wash of gunmetal (not the metallic version, although I do use that for weathered, creosoted wood) before moving on to dry brushing the effects of dirt, scraping of loads, etc.

[1722]

Does anyone know of any wagon repair facilities on this system? I’m assuming there would be nothing too glamorous.

 

Toying with an idea for a micro fork layout that allow me to combine my core interests of Shropshire railways and Parkside wagon kits!

 

Thanks for any help.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Chris 66522

[Norton961]

There was a wagon repair facility at New Yard but given they had a fleet of 344 main line wagons and 451 works wagons in 1921 the facilities were not exacyly modest!

I think the wagon repair shop is the larger building to the right in the attached photo.

 

I have also come accross aphoto which alledgedly shows Lilleshall No 8 a Peckett X Class 0-6-0tank at Lilleshall. The loco was bought new in 1900 and scrapped in 1932.

It wopuld be good if anyone can confirm this photo.

It would be nice if the Peckett X class were to be produced in model form.

 

 

David

Edited November 2, 2018 by Norton961

[1722]

Thanks for the info David. Much appreciated (although I might have to go more fictional then!).

 

Love this thread.

[1722]

Thanks for the info David. Much appreciated (although I might have to go more fictional then!).

 

Love this thread.

[Killian keane]

There was a wagon repair facility at New Yard but given they had a fleet of 344 main line wagons and 451 works wagons in 1921 the facilities were not exacyly modest!

I think the wagon repair shop is the larger building to the right in the attached photo.

W 91. Lilleshall Companies New Yard works Ironbridge Gorge Museum Trust..jpg

 

I have also come accross aphoto which alledgedly shows Lilleshall No 8 a Peckett X Class 0-6-0tank at Lilleshall. The loco was bought new in 1900 and scrapped in 1932.

Lilleshall No 8 Peckett works No 856 New in 1900 scrapped 1932.jpg

It wopuld be good if anyone can confirm this photo.

It would be nice if the Peckett X class were to be produced in model form.

 

 

David

I've just had this photo confirmed by a reliable source as beibg lilleshall, the gent with his thumbs in his lapels is Mr Dan Wildes, a veteran of the Boer war

[wagonbasher]

There was a wagon repair facility at New Yard but given they had a fleet of 344 main line wagons and 451 works wagons in 1921 the facilities were not exacyly modest!

I think the wagon repair shop is the larger building to the right in the attached photo.

W 91. Lilleshall Companies New Yard works Ironbridge Gorge Museum Trust..jpg

 

I have also come accross aphoto which alledgedly shows Lilleshall No 8 a Peckett X Class 0-6-0tank at Lilleshall. The loco was bought new in 1900 and scrapped in 1932.

Lilleshall No 8 Peckett works No 856 New in 1900 scrapped 1932.jpg

It wopuld be good if anyone can confirm this photo.

It would be nice if the Peckett X class were to be produced in model form.

 

 

David

The Peckett X class is available as a kit from Mercian models in 7mm. It was available in 4mm but Trevor discontinued his 4mm range a few years ago. The locomotive on the RMweb banner 'Tackeroo' today is one of Mercian's 4mm X class, sporting a remembrance day poppy thanks to some Andy York magic. I know that because its mine! You might still pick one up somewhere.

 

If your reading this in the future the banner will be different!!

 

Andy

[Killian keane]

The Peckett X class is available as a kit from Mercian models in 7mm. It was available in 4mm but Trevor discontinued his 4mm range a few years ago. The locomotive on the RMweb banner 'Tackeroo' today is one of Mercian's 4mm X class, sporting a remembrance day poppy thanks to some Andy York magic. I know that because its mine! You might still pick one up somewhere.If your reading this in the future the banner will be different!!Andy

Screenshot of the banner photo for posterity

[Norton961]

Killean , thanks for the info on the Lilleshall Co No 8 definitely being a Lilleshall loco. I love the fact that you can name one of the men in the photo. That brings the photo to life as to often the individuals appearing in photographs are unnamed or unknown.

 

David

Edited November 3, 2018 by Norton961

[Norton961]

For those interested in the Lilleshall Company may also be interested in the Railways and Industrial Archeology of the area (East Shropshire)The following books are useful.

The Trinder book was subject to a major revision in 2016 and has colour photos.

You can’t build an industrial model railway without having an understanding of the industries involved.

 

David

[Adam]

The Peckett X class is available as a kit from Mercian models in 7mm. It was available in 4mm but Trevor discontinued his 4mm range a few years ago. The locomotive on the RMweb banner 'Tackeroo' today is one of Mercian's 4mm X class, sporting a remembrance day poppy thanks to some Andy York magic. I know that because its mine! You might still pick one up somewhere.

 

If your reading this in the future the banner will be different!!

 

Andy

 

I've almost completed one of these: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123415-a-peckett-from-the-black-country-limited-lining/

 

Not a bad kit though there's a few features which I wasn't mad keen on - and how I've dealt with those is explained in the thread.

 

Adam

[Killian keane]

Killean , thanks for the info on the Lilleshall Co No 8 definitely being a Lilleshall loco. I love the fact that you can name one of the men in the photo. That brings the photo to life as to often the individuals appearing in photographs are unnamed or unknown.

 

David

I have a friend who was intimately familiar with the lilleshall system in the '50s I understand he knew the sister of the gent in the photo and could name many more if asked

[Norton961]

Latest purchase is this advert for the Lilleshall Co from 1867 which appeared in the Engineer Magazine.

 

I can also reveal that I have commissioned some transfers for Lilleshall Co wagons (both Limestone and Coal wagon livery) as well as another Shropshire wagon so watch this space!

As soon as they arte avaliable I will let you know.

 

David

[1722]

A super purchase, David. Have you ever considered putting together your own book about the system? I know you've devoted a chapter to it in Railways of Telford but just wondered if there was an opening for another book on it?

[Norton961]

Chris, thanks for the possitive comments. No I won’t be doing a book on the Lilleshal Co for a number of reasons, primarily because the Bob Yate book is so good and it included the bulk of the known photographs. As this thread has shown there have hardly been any new photos. Perhaps a supplement to Bob Yates book might on the cards.

 

David

[Osgood]

Not a Lilleshall locomotive but strongly related in appearance (the colliery's first two locos were MARQUIS and ANGLESEY) was BIRCH, a 2-4-0T built in 1888 in the Cannock & Rugeley Colliery workshops.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Larger-Glass-Negative-Industrial-Steam-loco-NCB-Brereton-Colliery-7-Birch-1930s-/372556328720?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Edited January 5, 2019 by Osgood

[Quarryscapes]

 

If anyone can work out the wording on this wagon livery, I'll make this available as a transfer too, otherwise we're looking at just the Nantmawr Limestone wagons and the Generic Lilleshall Shropshire livery. (I've already created two versions of the latter, correctly sized for the 6 planks in use and a modified version to fit 7 plank kits)

Edited January 5, 2019 by Quarryscapes

[sir douglas]

same as these maybe?

https://picclick.co.uk/Limited-Edition-LILLESHALL-wagons-Made-by-Robbies-Rolling-401613267176.html

[Compound2632]

same as these maybe?

https://picclick.co.uk/Limited-Edition-LILLESHALL-wagons-Made-by-Robbies-Rolling-401613267176.html

 

Those are presumably based on a better photo. The Lightmoor Index lists a couple of Lilleshall wagon photos; I suspect the one in Turnton's Vol. 3.

 

I would be tempted by transfers scaled for a more authentic wagon than the monstrosity to which Robbie is sadly addicted. The wagon in the photo has something of a Gloucester look to it - the shape of the brake V-iron is a tell-tale. From its proportions and the presence of diagonal ironwork, it could be a 16ft-over-headstocks 12 ton wagon to the RCH 1907 standard, like Cambrian Models' kit C36, although with older-pattern round-bottomed axleboxes (Attocks) rather than the square Gloucester 4S type of the kit.

[Norton961]

Steven, thanks for the observations on the Lilleshall Co wagon as I had surmised that the livery in the photo may have been post 1923 as only photos taken after that date show that livery. The list of wagon builders for Lilleshal are not complete, but Gloucester built the 10 ton Limestone wagons (1915 to 1920). Midland wagon Co built 48 coal wagons of 8ton capacity (1915 to 1920) and a further 48 coal wagons of 10 ton capacity between 1922 and 1924. In 1903 Renishaws supplied 20 wagons and also in 1905 Hurst Nelson supplied 50 wagons.

 

David

[Compound2632]

The RCH 1923 specification required wagons to be built with oil axleboxes. Ergo any PO wagon with grease axleboxes is to one of the earlier RCH specifications.

 

On the other hand, this livery on a 1907 specification wagon is not proof that the livery existed before 1923; it could have been applied later; it's quite possible that the Lilleshall Co. may have been hiring older wagons from one of the wagon firms (not necessarily the firm that built the wagon in the first place).

 

Forgive me if this has been posted before, but Lilleshall wagons believed to be used for stone traffic appear in a 1912 photo of Ynisygeinon Sidings on the Midland's Swansea Vale line, an extract from which was posted here. 

[Regularity]

On the other hand, this livery on a 1907 specification wagon is not proof that the livery existed before 1923; it could have been applied later; it's quite possible that the Lilleshall Co. may have been hiring older wagons from one of the wagon firms (not necessarily the firm that built the wagon in the first place).

 

An important point to remember. It is also possible for a sound wagon body to be upgraded, e.g. with new underframe ironwork that includes new axleboxess, etc.

At nationalisation, 60% of the PO wagon coal fleet were to the pre-1923 (mostly 1907, I suspect) specification, do they were long lived. That said, they were the first to be scrapped when 16T minerals were introduced (and that’s at a ratio of about 6 new for 3 scrapped). By the mid 50s, the older wagons were getting rarer and rarer and inroads were being made into the 1923 specification, too.

[Quarryscapes]

Those are presumably based on a better photo. The Lightmoor Index lists a couple of Lilleshall wagon photos; I suspect the one in Turnton's Vol. 3.

 

I would be tempted by transfers scaled for a more authentic wagon than the monstrosity to which Robbie is sadly addicted. The wagon in the photo has something of a Gloucester look to it - the shape of the brake V-iron is a tell-tale. From its proportions and the presence of diagonal ironwork, it could be a 16ft-over-headstocks 12 ton wagon to the RCH 1907 standard, like Cambrian Models' kit C36, although with older-pattern round-bottomed axleboxes (Attocks) rather than the square Gloucester 4S type of the kit.

 

It's a 15' 6 Plank wagon, but I intend to make the transfers applicable to 7 plank kits - SLaters for  15' and Cambrian for 16', though they won't strictly be prototypical.

 

So far I have 5 planks in all 3 liveries (Lillesahll Co Ltd, Lilleshall and Lilleshall Limestone), The correct 6 plank in Lilleshall livery, 7 Plank 15' end door (Slaters) in Lillehshall livery and 16' (Cambrian) in Lilleshall livery. Just The Co Ltd variants to add to the last two to go. Tare and Load do not appear in photos of many of the wagons, which is interesting. Presumably they were on a cast plate on the solebar and hence are not picked up in photos. 

[Quarryscapes]

These are some proofs for the transfers for the 3 livery styles, all 5 plank versions. I will add some alternate numbers, and possible some hand scrawled tare and load ratings as they seem to have often been chalked in.