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The Lilleshall Company a little known industrial railway


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As below I do have a higher resolution version of the words chalked onto the buffer beam of the crane. The addition of chalked inscription to items of rolling stock appears to be quite popular on the Lilleshall - see previous "Return To Boot Hill" on the rear of the Peckett.

The photo below along with 3 of the other recent Lilleshall system photos posted by Killian Keane (With no credit!) was taken by A.J.B.Dodd.

Regards

Steaman

 

rust in peace364.jpg

Thanks for posting that, the only reason there was no credit on the photos posted by me was that they were sent to me by a former worker at Lilleshall with his permission that they be posted in this thread, he did not mention the photographer
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The photo of the coach looks remarkably like photos of the Cannock Wood colliery paddy train, in which case it will be a LNWR built 6 compartment brake third which was bought by the colliery in 1958 following union pressure to reinstate a passenger service.

 

For a bit of closure as I'm not sure Larry frequents this thread (if anyone will know, its coachman), the coach pictured is most likely a LNWR diagram 333 general service non-corridor brake third. Without an image of the builders plate to narrow it down even further, it is one of 154 coaches built between 1913 and 1923 in several batches. Delving far into RMweb past while researching bits and pieces for a project of mine dug this blog entry up ~

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6151-blog-dave-holts-blog-d333-comparison/

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For a bit of closure as I'm not sure Larry frequents this thread (if anyone will know, its coachman), the coach pictured is most likely a LNWR diagram 333 general service non-corridor brake third. Without an image of the builders plate to narrow it down even further, it is one of 154 coaches built between 1913 and 1923 in several batches. Delving far into RMweb past while researching bits and pieces for a project of mine dug this blog entry up ~

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6151-blog-dave-holts-blog-d333-comparison/

That agrees with the vintage carriage Trust record on this vehicle.

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=595

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I tried to buy this coach 30 years ago but they would not let me move it from Chasewater so I never followed it up. It has just stood outside and gently rotted. It won’t have been in good condition when sold the Cannock and Rugely Collieries in 1958 so being outside for another 60 years has not helped. It’s now beyond help.

It’s a pity that the Lilleshall never had any coaching stock, but the collieries and steel works were surrounded by housing, unlike the collierys on Cannock Chase. When the army built a camp on the chase during the First World War they transported soldiers by various vehicles due to the remoteness of the site from habitation.

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I tried to buy this coach 30 years ago but they would not let me move it from Chasewater so I never followed it up. It has just stood outside and gently rotted. It won’t have been in good condition when sold the Cannock and Rugely Collieries in 1958 so being outside for another 60 years has not helped. It’s now beyond help.

It’s a pity that the Lilleshall never had any coaching stock, but the collieries and steel works were surrounded by housing, unlike the collierys on Cannock Chase. When the army built a camp on the chase during the First World War they transported soldiers by various vehicles due to the remoteness of the site from habitation.

Sorry to correct you but the military railway serving the camps on the chase did not carry soldiers as passengers. Soldiers marched from hednesfaord or Milford stations. There is a photograph of workmen involved in the camps construction standing in open wagons and some evidence that the workmen travelled by rail. The railway was built to carry goods only.

 

Andy

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If people are interested in this system then the only book avaiablke is "The Railways and Locomotives of the Lilleshall Company, by Bob Yates. Irwell Press 2008.

After the closure of the steelworks most of the site was cleared but in the 1960,s as a student I worked at what was left, a block making plant, using power station ash.

The first photo shows the ex GWR Pannier tank bought by the company.

attachicon.gifLillershall No 12 15-2-1958..jpg

 

Some of the locos built by the Lilleshall Company survived for many years working on lighter duties and the next photo shows one of its own built in 1869 and being scrapped in 1950attachicon.gifLillershall No 6 built by them 1869, re built 1923. Scrapped 22-4-1950.jpg.

 

After the NCB took over the collieries owned by the Company Granville Colliery supplied coal to Buildwas Powere station and the coal trains were worked by a range of locos down the 1.5 miles to Donnington station. Granville Colliery had a decent sized shed and in later years used Austerity 0-6-0tanks but in Lilleshall Company days the bigger engines were the ex TVR and Barry railway engines.

attachicon.gifGranville Colliery shed.Granville No 5 and No 8..jpg

 

I used to live not far from the interchage sidings at Donnington and have had an interest in both Granville and the Lilleshall company for 50 years but it seems not many people bothered to photograph the internal system so photos are thin on the ground. It would be interesting if any "new" photos appear prompted by this thread.

 

david

 

'doth my eyes deceive me'- Hando the Wise (myself) Is that a picture of the Lilleshall Peckett that Hornby has produced?

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Just to advise, if anyone is interested, that on Monday 26th March 18 (all being well) at the Telford Railway Society, there will be several photos of the Lilleshall company railway system presented in an illustrated talk. There will also be many views of the main line railways during the 1950/60's around the Telford area. The show starts at 19:45 hrs in the Maddocks sports & social club, Oakengates. 

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On a seperate thread regarding PO wagons in Shrewsbury there is a nice photo showing a rake of Lilleshall wagons in the Swansea valley which have been used to transport Limestone, the interior showing clearly the aftereffects of the load. The Lilleshall Co had 2 Limestone quarries one near Oswestry and one near Much Wenlock. principally to supply Limestone to its blast furnaces at Snedshill. The Oswestry quarry ceased to be leased by the Lilleshall Co in the 1920s and the Much WEnlock one in 1916. Presumably after these dates the company obtained Limestone from the commercial market.

I am also attaching a photo of a Lilleshall Co wagon post Second World War.

 

post-20690-0-27173200-1519730090_thumb.jpg

 

David

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My good friend a sandy Croall has allowed me to use a photo of his on this thread and it shows a rake of Lillershall wagons in the Swansea Valley where they supplied Limestone to the area.post-20690-0-75753200-1520194789_thumb.jpeg

It is not known to me why the Limestone was shipped from the Lilleshall Co quarries to the Swansea area.

It is interesting that some of wagons have a different shaped ends, but am not sure who the builder was.

 

David

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Arthur, the question seems to be around the fact that there were Limestone quarries closer to Swansea, so why was Limestone shipped from Mid Wales and Shropshire. Perhaps it was the type of Limestone or the qualitythat made the difference.Your help and advice would be appreciated. I know Limestone is used in blast furnaces to help form slag, but my knowledge of how Limestone is used in industry is slim!

 

David

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It’s used in steelmaking furnaces too and in quite a number of other industrial/chemical process’.

 

As you say, limestone is not exactly rare on this country and is widely spread.

 

I can only think of two reasons for moving it any distance. There are different forms of limestone, it’s a generic term, so it might have some special quality making it particularly suitable for it’s intended use. I don’t know enough about it to make any suggestions.

 

Or a commercial link, companies having some mutually beneficial arrangement which made shipping it a distance worthwhile.

 

.

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Amongst other places, Lilleshall obtained stone from Criggion Quarries via the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Rlwy I believe.  There are photos of these same design 'high ended' wagons at Kinnerley.

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When do some more research into the Wellington area I found that the Coal Merchants not only had coal from the Lilleshall Company but another Shropshire based colliery Madeley Wood which was part of the Madeley Wood Colliery Company, but I have never see a photo of this livery, has anyone else see a photo?

Also I found that Anthracite was delivered from Moutain Ash but again I don’t know which colliery.

It is interesting that Littleton Colliery and Rugeley Colliery in the West Midlands also supplied coal to the Wellington based coal Merchants, so the Lilleshal Co did not have a monopoly.

 

David

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That’s possibly because not only is this an “island of coal”, we have varieties of coal which can be put to different uses.

 

I'm still looking for a definitive account of this. Which coalfields produced the best coal for which purpose? For instance, where did the best coal for gas production come from? I realise the question is complicated by individual coalfields or even collieries producing a variety grades of coal.

 

Where is "Coal and how to burn it?"

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I'm still looking for a definitive account of this. Which coalfields produced the best coal for which purpose? For instance, where did the best coal for gas production come from? I realise the question is complicated by individual coalfields or even collieries producing a variety grades of coal.

 

As you say, it is not simple in that most coalfields produced a range of coals and even individual pits produced different types from the different seams they worked. That isn’t to say that they all produced all types. There was, for example, a lot of coking coal from the Durham fields, conversely none from Kent nor the Scottish fields.

 

The end users often blended coal too, e.g. coke for blast furnaces was generally produced from a pre-determined blend of specific coals. For example, the Lancashire Steel Corp. at Irlam took in coking coals from Durham, Yorkshire and Lancashire and blended them on site in a 40% 40% 20% mix.

 

Somewhere I’ve got some details of what was produced from the pits in the Forest of Dean and from some of the Lancashire pits, I’ll see if I can locate them.

 

.

 

.

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Amongst other places, Lilleshall obtained stone from Criggion Quarries via the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Rlwy I believe.  There are photos of these same design 'high ended' wagons at Kinnerley.

As far as I have gone, the Ceiriog ones have a 'normal' curved end, the Lilleshall ones have something rather different. The photographs of the S&M show trains with groups of 3 plank flat ends and 5 plank(?) rounded ends. There's no suggestion that other wagons were used for the stone traffic.

regards,

martin

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As far as I have gone, the Ceiriog ones have a 'normal' curved end, the Lilleshall ones have something rather different. The photographs of the S&M show trains with groups of 3 plank flat ends and 5 plank(?) rounded ends. There's no suggestion that other wagons were used for the stone traffic.

regards,

martin

Hmm, you could well be right.  I was going by this part photo (taken from Peter Johnson's S&M book, photo credited to WEH-LYNN collection) which shows one of the Lilleshall high end wagons (or is it just a 'normal' one?) at Kinnerley.  However, on closer examination now it's been blown-up somewhat, the load appears to be coal?  Lilleshall owned Nant Mawr quarries but, due to the shenanigans between the S&M and the Cambrian, GWR and LNWR, their traffic probably went out via Llynclys.  I've just had a quick scan through Roger Carpenter's 'Criggion Branch'  book and can't see any Lilleshall wagons as you say.

 

post-807-0-33063100-1520353035.jpg

 

There also appears to be a high end wagon of another style behind the railbus but I can't make out the owner.

 

Love the petrol cans on the platform, presumably used for fueling the railbus.

Edited by 5050
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Hmm, you could well be right.  I was going by this part photo (taken from Peter Johnson's S&M book, photo credited to WEH-LYNN collection) which shows one of the Lilleshall high end wagons (or is it just a 'normal' one?) at Kinnerley.  However, on closer examination now it's been blown-up somewhat, the load appears to be coal?  Lilleshall owned Nant Mawr quarries but, due to the shenanigans between the S&M and the Cambrian, GWR and LNWR, their traffic probably went out via Llynclys.  I've just had a quick scan through Roger Carpenter's 'Criggion Branch'  book and can't see any Lilleshall wagons as you say.

 

attachicon.gifKinnerley Lilleshall.A.jpg

 

There also appears to be a high end wagon of another style behind the railbus but I can't make out the owner.

 

Love the petrol cans on the platform, presumably used for fueling the railbus.

Presumably the stone quarry would still need some coal, so limestone out and coal back in the same wagons sounds likely?

 

Andy

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A quarry wouldn't be using a lot of coal unless they were also 'cooking' the limestone to make quicklime. I think that the lime kilns at Nant Mawr may still exist.

Ray.

quarry steam locomotives?

 

Andy

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