The Lilleshall Company a little known industrial railway

[Arthur]

Your teasing us.....Is it something to do with the three low capacity mineral wagons bottom left.... Or.... Maybe that small shiny cylindrical thingy at the foot of the second small chimney from the left?

Andy

 

Always keep 'em wanting more, that's Show Business.

 

Shiny cylindrical thing? Not sure I can see that Andy?

 

 

 

 

 

Arthur,

Thanks again for the info posted. Am I correct in thinking that the row of small chimmneys in the foreground are coking ovens?

David

They are indeed.

 

So yes, perhaps of greater interest is the long bank of beehive coke ovens, with the arched openings, running right across the photograph. These predate the byproduct type ovens which were to become the industry standard. It's difficult to ascertain from the photo the exact nature of operation of this particular battery of ovens. As a technology, they developed over the years, some becoming fully mechanically charged and discharged, and some incorporating full by product recovery.

 

The stone or brick built bank contains a number of stone lined, dome or beehive shaped chambers. A charge of coal is dropped in from a port in the top and ignited. After a short while, the oven is partly sealed up, the hot coal, in the absence of oxygen, releases it's volatiles which burn in the oven adding heat and further carbonising the coal. There was some development in how the ovens were heated, hot gas flues being incorporated in some.

 

Once carbonised (turned to coke) the oven is opened up, the coke quenched by hosepipe and then the cooled coke is raked out through the archway door at the front.

 

I suspect that this was was essentially a hand operation, there seems little evidence of machinery.

 

The stubby chimneys on the top are flues, part of a heat recovery system drawing hot gasses out of the ovens and through waste heat recovery boilers.

 

The large diameter pipe running along the length of the battery is probably a flue creating a draught on the ovens to aid combustion.

 

This image, of an unknown UK plant, shows a battery in operation;

 

 

Cross section of an oven, also showing the flue.

 

 

Some U.S. images, firstly a drawing showing the battery arrangement;

 

 

And the conditions around a battery in operation;

 

 

U.S. link with more info about the process.

 

http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.ancestry.com/coke2.html

 

 

 

Beehive ovens were supplanted by by-product coke ovens which were introduced around 1900 though some batteries survived well into the 20th century. Modern byproduct ovens were, and are, mechanically operated, and had a much greater output, were more controllable and the byproducts driven off during the coking process were fully collected. These latter were processed to produce gas, a valuable fuel, and a whole range of chemicals which were developed by the coal chemical industry.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Arthur

[Norton961]

Arthur,

Thanks yet again for the informative post.

I think that the photo is taken in the late 1880s as the coke Ovens in the foreground don't appear in later photos. I will see if I can find the date.

Photos of Lilleshall furnaces are hard to find and I was really pleased to find the one recently posted.

Knowing that Arthur would be able to provide the technical information is a real benefit of being in RMWeb and a real pleasure for me.

 

David

[sparks]

If people are interested in this system then the only book avaiablke is "The Railways and Locomotives of the Lilleshall Company, by Bob Yates. Irwell Press 2008.

 

Apologies for reviving an old thread, but this popped up during my Googling.

 

Can anyone tell me if this book covers the logos built by the Lilleshall Co for other users please? I'm particularly interested in the narrow gauge locos like this one that ran (with another larger example) in the Forest of Dean:-

http://lightmoor.co.uk/BDLarchive_covers/arch84.jpg

 

There was also a similar loco used by one of the quarries that was served by the GVT

 

Thanks

Edited December 3, 2016 by sparks

[Osgood]

Hi Sparks,

 

Yes - there are eight pages like the one below, together with eight pages of superb quality early photos, generally two to a page (including the one shown on cover of that mag you linked).

 

A fascinating book all round - highly recommend you get yourself a copy.

 

Might also be worth looking at the IRS magazine index as I'm sure Lilleshall locomotives have featured in articles.

 

Tony

 

[sparks]

Thanks Osgood - I'll keep an eye out for one

[Ruston]

Arthur, thanks for adding the info about the ladle suppliers.

 

I am adding another photo taken at the Priorslee ironworks site showing another loco that could be modelled as there are kits avaliable in both 4mm and 7mm, a Pecket 0-4-0 here Lilleshall No 10 P883 of 1901.

Lillershall No 10 P883-1901..jpg. 

 

Some nice background.

That very loco is soon to be available RTR from Hornby. The same loco is pictured in the IRS Handbook G but without a cab rear but it would appear that Hornby are correct in modelling it in the way they are.

[Norton961]

Ruston, thanks for picking up the new Pecket from Hornby is the same as the Lilleshall one, I shall have to buy one now! It's fabulous that Hornby are doing a "proper" industrial loco to the latest standards, all I have to do next is work out how to convert to P4.

[Norton961]

I have just bought one of eBay they seem to be thin on the ground. That's good if they have virtually sold out, this wil encourage more industrials hopefully. I am assuming the Lilleshall version was painted black, although one loco in the fleet was painted dark blue.

[Norton961]

Bit of an outside chance, but does anyone have any Lilleshall Co 4mm wagons? Bachmann did the Lilleshall Limestone livery and there was a kit for the Lilleshal PO wagon. If anyone has any I will gladly buy it from them.

Having just bought a Pecket ( a Manchester Ship Canal one) I know find that Hornbys version for 2017 is the Lilleshall Co one, complete with the lower dome, so one is getting pre ordered.

 

David

[1722]

Bit of an outside chance, but does anyone have any Lilleshall Co 4mm wagons? Bachmann did the Lilleshall Limestone livery and there was a kit for the Lilleshal PO wagon. If anyone has any I will gladly buy it from them.

Having just bought a Pecket ( a Manchester Ship Canal one) I know find that Hornbys version for 2017 is the Lilleshall Co one, complete with the lower dome, so one is getting pre ordered.

 

David

David,

 

I've recently moved in to the local Shropshire area (Newport) and have become very interested in the Lilleshall Company. I received your book 'Railways of Telford' for Christmas and am enjoying it - particularly the Lilleshall part.

 

I'm currently planning a rural Shropshire-based layout (limestone, I'm thinking) and the book and this thread are really helping.

 

Finally, regarding the Lilleshall wagons, I've recently picked one up on a well-known auction site for £4.99 plus postage - there are a few out there.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[Norton961]

Chris, thanks for your kind comments. You may want to also follow my blog on my layout Trench Sidings on RM Web. I have posted some prototype photos. Since I posted my last post I have managed to get hold of 2 Bachmann Lillishall Limestone wagons and am persuing if there are any Craftsman. Lilleshall wagons. If you pm me with your email address I can send you some photos.

 

David

[Norton961]

Now back from a holiday in France, I ought to post a few more photos of the Lillishall Company system.

The first photo is of No 11 an Andrew Barcley loco, High Level do a kit of this loco.

The second photo is of the same loco, it was 1486 and built in 1916.

 

 

 

[Norton961]

Hornby have announced that are doing another version of their excellent W4 Peckett as the Lillishal version. I have posted this photo in another thread but should also be on this tread,

Peckett P883 of 1901 taken in 1957.

 

[1722]

'... follow my blog on my layout Trench Sidings on RM Web...'

 

'...If you pm me with your email address I can send you some photos...'

 

David

Done and done! :-)

[Compound2632]

Hornby have announced that are doing another version of their excellent W4 Peckett as the Lillishal version. I have posted this photo in another thread but should also be on this tread,

Peckett P883 of 1901 taken in 1957.

 

Lillershal No10. P883-1901. 27-5-1957.jpg

 

I do like the dumb-buffered wagons still in use nearly half-a-century after being outlawed on the main lines - presumably these flatbeds have been cut down from old coal wagons.

[Norton961]

Industrial railways never threw anything away if it could stil serve a purpose. Just because dumb buffered wagons were not allowed on the mainline would not stop them being used on internal lines. I will have a look and see if I can find some more photos of some of the wagons.

 

David

[Norton961]

An update for this thread, I ought to mention the wagons of the Lillishall company and some of the wagons that worked in. The Lillishall co sold loco coal to the LNWR/LMS as well as the Cambrian and certainly LMS Loco coal wagons were seen on the system.

There appeared to be a number of different liveries for the lillishall Co wagons but photos are hard to find.

 

The second photo shows a Lillishall Co wagon in the 1940s at Eridge in Kent after the pooling during the war.

The 3rd photo shows a wagon at Dalmellington in 1996 but I am not sure of its origin and whether it is a genuine Lillishall co wagon. I understand that this wagon is now beyound repair.

 

I have now also attached a better drawing of the system

 

I have discvered that the Bob Yate book on the Lillishall system is out of print and now round £40.00 second hand. I suspect that Irwell only printed a small number and it was published in 2008.

Any more photos of Lillishall wagons would be welcome!. I have some more photos to scan in and in the background of one is an ex PO wagon marked up as "Furnave Use only" but the original livery is not clear.

 

David

[Mark Saunders]

The second photo is branded MTD so this branding suggests it is due for disposal!

 

Mark Saunders

[Quarryscapes]

An update for this thread, I ought to mention the wagons of the Lillishall company and some of the wagons that worked in. The Lillishall co sold loco coal to the LNWR/LMS as well as the Cambrian and certainly LMS Loco coal wagons were seen on the system.

There appeared to be a number of different liveries for the lillishall Co wagons but photos are hard to find.

 

<snip>

I have discvered that the Bob Yate book on the Lillishall system is out of print and now round £40.00 second hand. I suspect that Irwell only printed a small number and it was published in 2008.

Any more photos of Lillishall wagons would be welcome!. I have some more photos to scan in and in the background of one is an ex PO wagon marked up as "Furnave Use only" but the original livery is not clear.

 

David

 

I'd second that (my bold)! I have a tantalising part pic on the Cambrian system, I'm putting together some transfers for Lilleshall wagons and would be nice to be able to put the correct lettering on there. 

[Norton961]

A few notes on the Lillishall wagon fleet might be in order. In 1918 50 new main line wagons were ordered which brought the main line wagon stock up to 200. With 250 wagons for internal use the company had their own wagon repair facility built in 1902 in New Yard. Timber was supplied from the companies own saw mills. The large number of internal wagons serviced the pits owned by the company and presumably disposed of misc spoil from both the pits and the iron works. The coal from the various pits enabled the company to sell coal to the main line railway companies including the LNWR, GWR and Cambrian. LMS Loco wagons have been spotted in photos of the Lillishall rail system.

In addition the company had sidings dotted around Sropshire where coal was delivered to Coal merchants, so for example they had a siding at Trench sidings and Shifnal. Limestone was delivered in company wagons from the companies own quarries in the Welsh borders and Iron ore was initially provided by the companies own pits in the area, however in 1912 the company formed Wolstanton Ltd jointly with Partington Iron and Steel Co where iron ore was mined at Woolstanton pit in the Stoke area.

Some more photos of Lillishall Co wagons would be gratefully received!

[1722]

Hornby have announced that are doing another version of their excellent W4 Peckett as the Lillishal version. I have posted this photo in another thread but should also be on this tread,

Peckett P883 of 1901 taken in 1957.

 

Lillershal No10. P883-1901. 27-5-1957.jpg

Now pre-ordered. David, I blame you! :-)

[wagonbasher]

A few notes on the Lillishall wagon fleet might be in order. In 1918 50 new main line wagons were ordered which brought the main line wagon stock up to 200. With 250 wagons for internal use the company had their own wagon repair facility built in 1902 in New Yard. Timber was supplied from the companies own saw mills. The large number of internal wagons serviced the pits owned by the company and presumably disposed of misc spoil from both the pits and the iron works. The coal from the various pits enabled the company to sell coal to the main line railway companies including the LNWR, GWR and Cambrian. LMS Loco wagons have been spotted in photos of the Lillishall rail system.

In addition the company had sidings dotted around Sropshire where coal was delivered to Coal merchants, so for example they had a siding at Trench sidings and Shifnal. Limestone was delivered in company wagons from the companies own quarries in the Welsh borders and Iron ore was initially provided by the companies own pits in the area, however in 1912 the company formed Wolstanton Ltd jointly with Partington Iron and Steel Co where iron ore was mined at Woolstanton pit in the Stoke area.

Some more photos of Lillishall Co wagons would be gratefully received!

Wagon anorak hat on.. Do you know who built the 50 new wagons and the spec (6 plank, 7 plank). The requirements for moving Iron ore, coal and Limestone is quite different. I realise that there were 150 older wagons already kicking around. I wonder if the 50 were meant to replace older stock rather than add to it (dumb buffered, poor brake design and lower capacity.

 

Andy

 

Andy

[Norton961]

The only info I have is from Bob Yates book which gives the followings:

Main Line Coal 10t and 8t. Coke 10t and 8t, Lime 10t and 8t, Limestone 10t and 8t. As far as builders go they are as follows: Gloucester, 30 wagons 10ton built 1915-1920.

British Wagon Co 48 wagons, 10t coal 1922-1924.

Midland Wagon Co 26 wagons 8t 1915-1920, also 22 8t in 1915. The wagons from Midland Wagon were bought on Hire Purchase starting in 3/1911 and payable monthly for 5 years.

W R Renishaw (Stoke). 20 wagons on hire from 11/1903.

Hurst Nelson 50 wagons on hire from 2/1905.

Interesting that the British Wagon co ones bridges the 1923 RCH design so some may have built to that standard. I think the Midland Wagon Co had a works at Shrewsbury near the loco depot.

[Norton961]

My last 2 photos of Lilleshall wagons. I am also on the train of a couple more but dont have them at present.

The first photo is taken on the Lilleshall system and the loco is one built by the Lilleshall Co.

 

 

The second photo is taken at Trench Sidings in the 1930s with the resident 0-4-0.

 

[wagonbasher]

My last 2 photos of Lilleshall wagons. I am also on the train of a couple more but dont have them at present.

The first photo is taken on the Lilleshall system and the loco is one built by the Lilleshall Co.

img962 (3).jpg

 

 

The second photo is taken at Trench Sidings in the 1930s with the resident 0-4-0.

 

Lilleshall Co wagon..jpg

What is that 0-4-0. A Breyer peacock maybe?

 

Andy