5050 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 What is that 0-4-0. A Breyer peacock maybe? Andy LMS loco 16004, stated as being ex-Caledonian Railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 16004 ex Caledonian Railway was the resident loco at Trench sidings. When it was away for repair an ex L&Y Pug was used. When the shed closed in 1943 the loco was allocated to Wellington and after shunting on the LMS yard at Wellington would run down to Trench Sidings for further shunting, calling at any intermediate sidings such as Hadley. The siding immediately to the right of the loco and Lilleshall wagon was the one owned by the Lilleshall company and was used as a land sale yard with Coal Merchants loading their Lorrys from coal wagons in the siding. David Edited January 23, 2017 by Norton961 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 ....and Iron ore was initially provided by the companies own pits in the area, however in 1912 the company formed Wolstanton Ltd jointly with Partington Iron and Steel Co where iron ore was mined at Woolstanton pit in the Stoke area. Partington Steel and Iron Co. was formed around 1911 with the intention of building an integrated steelworks on the north bank of the Manchester Ship Canal adjacent to the Partington coaling basin. The works opened in 1913 with much of its output destined to supply the Warrington wire industry. It was reorganised as the Lancashire Steel Corporation in 1930, the works largely rebuilt, and the location referred to as Irlam. Interesting that the works had ore from as close by as Stoke, it was planned to import most of its ore needs via the Ship Canal. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Thinking about the Lilleshall Co wagon fleet there is mention of Lime wagons as well as Limestone wagons. The Limestone wagons are OK as being open wagons but what about the Lime wagons? This would be in powder form and would need to kept dry and could either be bagged(unlikely I think) or if it was loose then the wagon would need to either a Van or an open which was sheeted. Any ideas on this? Would the open wagons be similar to China clay wagons with a tarpaulin bar? Any help would be appreciated. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I seem to remember that Peco sold a "Dowlow Lime wagon" in their 'Wonderful wagon' range many years ago. It was a 5 plank wagon with a peaked roof rather like the salt wagons. I assume it was based on a real wagon - maybe the Lilleshall Co's were similar. Ray. Edited January 27, 2017 by Marshall5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 I know that the Bob Yate book on the Lilleshall system is now out of print, but I have written a chapter on the Lilleshall system in my book The Railways of Telford published by Crowood Press. I also have a chapter on the Granville Colliery system as well as the local main lines. I know its a bit of a plug but I wrote the book as I am keen to promote interest in the railways of East Shropshire a subject not well covered by books. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 The Lillieshall system can be viewed on the NLS maps at large scale here. http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=52.6924&lon=-2.4476&layers=168&b=1 Brit15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I seem to remember that Peco sold a "Dowlow Lime wagon" in their 'Wonderful wagon' range many years ago. It was a 5 plank wagon with a peaked roof rather like the salt wagons. I assume it was based on a real wagon - maybe the Lilleshall Co's were similar. Ray. Lime wagons seemed to of similar design around the country. Steetley and ICI had fleets of them. They weren't 'Pooled', as far as I'm aware, so could be seen into the 1950s, and possibly later. The lime wouldn't have been 'slaked', so would need to be kept dry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Apollo, thanks for posting the link to the maps of the Lilleshall system, who knew the maps are in Scotland! Re the Peckett No 10, it was registered with the Railway Executive in 1953 so it could work onto the sidings of the main line companies that had connections to the Lilleshal system. I don't know for sure but I would suspect that the loco would work into the Lilleshall Co sidings that were part of the Hollinwood yard on the GWR main line. I presume that by being registered meant a regular check that the loco was fit to run on "main line" sidings. How far industrial locos could work on "main line" tracks was governed by the Private Sidings agreements drawn up between the main line companies and the industrial concerns. These would be updated over the years as and when required. The notes on the Lime wagons are interesting we just need to find a photograph! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Apollo, thanks for posting the link to the maps of the Lilleshall system, who knew the maps are in Scotland! Re the Peckett No 10, it was registered with the Railway Executive in 1953 so it could work onto the sidings of the main line companies that had connections to the Lilleshal system. I don't know for sure but I would suspect that the loco would work into the Lilleshall Co sidings that were part of the Hollinwood yard on the GWR main line. I presume that by being registered meant a regular check that the loco was fit to run on "main line" sidings. How far industrial locos could work on "main line" tracks was governed by the Private Sidings agreements drawn up between the main line companies and the industrial concerns. These would be updated over the years as and when required. The notes on the Lime wagons are interesting we just need to find a photograph! I looked through about five pages of Google, and the only photoos I found were models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 re the wagons built by The Midland Wagon Co for the Lileshall Co from 1915, these would have been built at the Waswood Heath site (later to become Metropolita Cammel) as the Midland Wagon Co site at Shrewsbury closed down in 1912 with production being moved to the Washwood Heath site. I am attaching a poor quality photo of the Priorslee works showing another Lilleshall wagon. The wagon to the left of the Lilleshall branded one is a GWR one and given that this is in an earlier lettering style someone may be able to give an approx date. I mentioned that the Lilleshall Co supplied loco coal to a number of main line companies and here an LMS loco Coal wagon can be seen on the Lilleshalls system. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2017 Here's is a link to Nantmawr Quarries: http://www.oswestry-borderland-heritage.co.uk/?page=133 It contains a picture of one of the 5 plank Lilleshall private owner wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Here's is a link to Nantmawr Quarries: http://www.oswestry-borderland-heritage.co.uk/?page=133 It contains a picture of one of the 5 plank Lilleshall private owner wagons. Thanks for that link, I've not seen the site before. As a former Oswestry resident and having family links with the town and area I'm always interested to find websites relating to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1722 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I am now attaching a "mystry" photograph which shows a section of the Lillishall Co system but I dont know where! The photo was taken by Arthur Dodd (A.J.B Dodd) who took lots of photos of the area and is now sadly deceased. The photo was sent to me by his son (Mike Dodd) hoping I might be able to place it, but no! the signal in the far distance is similar to another photo i have (which I need to scan in ) but that does not have a location either! Possible Lillishall trackwork.jpg Personally, I find this photograph extremely inspirational! Given me quite a bit of an idea for an SLT style layout as a test bed for some new ideas! Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 What is that curious vertical structure just to the right of the two figures? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I am now attaching a "mystry" photograph which shows a section of the Lillishall Co system but I dont know where! The photo was taken by Arthur Dodd (A.J.B Dodd) who took lots of photos of the area and is now sadly deceased. The photo was sent to me by his son (Mike Dodd) hoping I might be able to place it, but no! the signal in the far distance is similar to another photo i have (which I need to scan in ) but that does not have a location either! Possible Lillishall trackwork.jpg I'm not wholly convinced but the outline of the hill in the distance looks a little like The Nabb and as the photo is into the sun I wonder if it's the crossing in the dead centre of these maps - http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=16&lat=52.7028&lon=-2.4339&layers=10&right=BingHyb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Andy, that's a pretty good spot! I don't think the Lilleshall had many signals and I have another photo which I will scan in later this week that may help. Good detective work! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castleacreshunter Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 There is a book about Lilleshall company coming this year published by the Irwell Press,I think it said in May' Malcolm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) There is a book about Lilleshall company coming this year published by the Irwell Press,I think it said in May' Malcolm. That was published in May 2008, and is the book mentioned earlier in this thread. Interesting it is listed on their website - presumably (although not - as other books - being shown as 'reprint by popular demand') Irwell are reprinting it? Shown near the bottom of this page: http://www.irwellpress.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=https%3a%2f%2fwww%2eirwellpress%2ecom%2facatalog%2fFORTHCOMING_BOOKS%2ehtml&WD=lilleshall&PN=GREAT_WESTERN_RAILWAY%2ehtml%23a64#a64 Edited February 2, 2017 by Osgood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Other Locos used by the Lilleshall included some ex mainline locos from the South Wales railway companies as her with an ex Taff Vale Railway 0-6-2. This lasted untill the end of the system and was scrapped in 1958. Another ex TVR was moved to the NCB in 1948 and was used at Granville Colliery after the colliery passed from Lilleshal Co hands to the NCB. Its a pity there are no models of these locomotives. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Finding new original photos of the Lilleshal Co is very hard but I received today a new photo from my friend Mike Dodd who found this photo taken by his father AJ B Dodd inside the Priorslee plant where the pig iron was produced. In the background the rail mounted ladles that carried the molten metal from the blast furnaces to the pig iron plant. David 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 That's a great find David, showing the pig beds being cast, pity it doesn't show how the hot metal is getting into the bed. I don't believe that they are hot metal ladles in the background, they look to me like slag ladles. The bodies on them look like the typical cast iron ladles used for slag traffic. Hot metal ladles had steel bodies, they would have had a thick refractory brick lining and a pouring lip. I suspect that the photo is taken in the cast house and that the blast furnace is just off shot, either right or left, and that it is casting directly into the pig bed. That was the usual practice at older and smaller furnaces, to have the sand pig beds at the foot of the furnace. Hot metal ladles were only used to transport iron to either an adjacent steel making plant or to a pig casting machine, and we're not looking at a pig casting machine here. Being inside the cast house would also explain the presence of slag ladles. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Arthur, thanks for the expert clarification on the photo I posted. Every time I have posted a photo you have provided an insight into how real iron/steel works actually work, it's been a real education. As the ladles are for slag I now need to find out where he slag was dumped. As the photos. All the photos I have seen have never shown any slag ladles being moved around. A question Arthur, what would be the maximum distance a slag ladle can moved and would it matter if the slag cooles down and goes solid? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Thanks David. Slag was often allowed to solidify in ladles anyway so, with that in mind, there was no limit in terms of distance nor time in how long it could be left in the ladle. The ladles and their carriages had heavy, cast, 'banging' blocks on them so that the locomotives could yank on the tipping chain and knock the slag loose. If solidified, it came out, obviously, in a ladle shaped lump which would be allowed to weather and then be broken and ground up for use as roadstone, ballast or aggregate. One use was as aggregate for making lightweight building blocks. Even if poured liquid it could be left for a couple of hours or so. At Lancashire Steels Irlam works they had a slag bank at Rixton which was probably 2 or 3 miles from the works, out along the Manchester Ship Canals railway line, and it was poured liquid there. So, in summary, the slag bank could have been almost anywhere on the Lilleshall system. . Edited February 14, 2017 by Arthur Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) …. I now need to find out where he slag was dumped. ... David Maybe not too far away - your photo in post 1 shows the slag reduction plant, so my guess would be near to this plant to save re-handling? Tony P.S. Great photo - there is another 1958 dated shot here: http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-casting-iron-blast-furnace-iron-steel-workers-at-the-lilleshall-company-112699516.html Edited February 14, 2017 by Osgood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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