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LMS "ratio" plastic kit signals..


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I would agree with most of what Stationmaster has said about the positioning of a diamond sign, but - if one is going to be pedanctic about the wording <g> - I must disagree with "...The diamond actually indicates a modification of Rule 55 (as it once was) because there is  a track circuit in rear of (or in some cases a Call Plunger at) that signal...."

 

As I read the (old) Rule Book, the presence of a diamond (actually a 'lozenge' or hexagon <g>) indicates a relaxation of certain aspects of Rule 55 for one or more of a variety of reasons, which included:-

  • provision of a track circuit in rear of the signal
  • provision of a treadle in rear of the signal
  • provision of some other reminder device such as a Call Plunger
  • the fact that the signal is on a line signalled under 'Lock & Block' regulations

but, other than in areas where L&B working was in force, I would agree that the existence of a TC was probably the most prevalent reason.

 

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2 hours ago, RailWest said:

IMHO diamonds would be irrelevant in terms of distant signals, as trains would not normally be held at a distant.

 

However, you do need to be careful in the placement of the diamond. Firstly, why are you providing a diamond anyway? Having answered that question, then does your answer apply to both the tracks that pass under the gantry? If the answer is 'yes' then both dolls need one, or else there could perhaps be a common one on the gantry itself applicable to both dolls. If the answer is 'no', that it applies only to the LH road, then the diamond needs to be on that doll not the gantry to indicate that it does NOT apply to the RH doll.

My apologies for mentioning a distant signal, there is of course not one on that model! Must adjust my monitor!

 

The diamond I mentioned, must be located on the gantry, in line with the doll as per The Stationmaster.

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2 hours ago, RailWest said:

I would agree with most of what Stationmaster has said about the positioning of a diamond sign, but - if one is going to be pedanctic about the wording <g> - I must disagree with "...The diamond actually indicates a modification of Rule 55 (as it once was) because there is  a track circuit in rear of (or in some cases a Call Plunger at) that signal...."

 

As I read the (old) Rule Book, the presence of a diamond (actually a 'lozenge' or hexagon <g>) indicates a relaxation of certain aspects of Rule 55 for one or more of a variety of reasons, which included:-

  • provision of a track circuit in rear of the signal
  • provision of a treadle depression bar in rear of the signal
  • provision of some other reminder device such as a Call Plunger (after the 'D' sign ceased to be used)
  • the fact that the signal is on a line signalled under 'Lock & Block' regulations

but, other than in areas where L&B working was in force, I would agree that the existence of a TC was probably the most prevalent reason.

 

Amended to indicate what the 1950 Rule Book actually said as it referred to the 'diamond' sign only being used where a track circuit or depression bar was provided.   Originally on some companies (e.g the GWR) the diamond sign was used if a track circuit was provided and a separate notice was used for a 'bell to box' (aka call plunger) was provided.  While  the LMS used the 'D sign when a call plunger was provided and the 'diamond' sign if it was track circuit.  No sign was normally provided when lock and block working was used (it is qualified separately from the diamond sign in the 1950 Rule Book) - similarly no sign was provided on single lines when the Driver being in position of the token etc modified the provisions of the Rule.

 

http://www.railsigns.uk/sect9page1/sect9page1.html

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On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 06:38, kevinlms said:

I think you're right, the diamond would be located for sighting purposes, for a train that had stopped at the signal. So having it up high is wrong.

Usually, the diamond would be located on the LH post, but in this case it would be behind the ladder, so not the best place.

So the most likely place is on the horizontal girder, on a black patch so that it doesn't hide amongst the white of the girder.

 

There is a photo in LNWR Signalling of a diamond, mounted between the stop & distant arms, but this is on a low signal directly in front of a tunnel, so not up high.

 

Edit to add

 

Does the position of the diamond in relation to the distant matter, as the train won't be stopping there if the distant is at danger & the stop signal clear?

Thanks for the info here Kevin,ile make some changes now to this gantry..

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