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Hornby 2015 Announcements now made


Andy Y

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No not all were but you need to appreciate the effect electrification had on the need for new suburban / non corridor stock.

The electrification of the London suburban area (which was COMPLETE by 1930) meant that vast numbers of non corridor stock became surplus to requirements. By 1938 you also had the entire south coast between Hastings and Portsmouth equipped with 3rd rail EMUs displacing large quantities of non corridor stock previously used for local / stopping / Suburban duties (the NOLs BILs and HALs being the replacements)

Rather than scrap it outright, the Southern either transferred it out to rural branch lines or rebuilt the bodies onto new underframes. Said rebuilding produced both EMUs and steam hauled stock but because the rebuilt coaches were made from sometimes up to 3 pre grouping bodies , the appearance, body mouldings and general styling varied quite considerably between coaches with identical seating capacity.

The only new non corridor stock the SR built was a few100 seaters originally ordered by the SECR just before grouping.

The upshot of all this is that no model manufacturer can produce "Southern suburban" stock in the same manor as Hornby have done for the LNER and now the LMS both of which invested in complete new build stock of a standardised design and which was used all over their respective areas.

While it is true that Bachmann are planning to release the SECR designed and built 'birdcage' coaches you need to remember that these are NOT "Southern suburban coaches". They were never used west of the Brighton main line for example while the LSWR stock formed into 3 coach sets for local duties was never found to the east of said Brighton mainline.

Furthermore due to the more generous loading gauge used by the LBSCR and it's standardisation on the Westinghouse air brake for passenger stock, after the electrification of the Brighton main line in 1932' (plus to Eastbourne & Hastings line in 1935 then the Arun Valley & Portsmouth lines in 1938) most LBSCR stock was scrapped with ex SECR and LSWR stock being drafted in where necessary.

Thus calls for "Southern suburban stock" are pointless as said stock NEVER existed.

Well said that man!

 

A 100 seater would be a useful addition for the enthusiast interested in realistic formations but a single coach to one design would bemuse the general buyer looking for the complete set in the same style. IMO someone like Kernow could get away with doing a special but not Hornby as a general item - different markets?

 

(although there was a grounded birdcage brake at Wadebridge - no idea how that ended up there!)

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Hornby's grafitti coach is pure Hornby along with Hornby labelled PO wagons, giraffes and what have you. It might seem expensive to sit in a siding but at least it will be getting more fresh air than those that spend their lives in boxes... :sungum:

 

I agree a grafitti blue & grey Mk.I would have been more in tune with reality, but it would need broken windows. Geesh, this is s e r i o u s.....

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Beacuse the production slot could have been better used.

 

e.g. More B/G Mk1's.

 

Better used for whom? If these "specials" sell out fairly quickly, that is the best result that Hornby can obtain from any manufacturing capacity.

 

And it is a very cheap way to create a "new" item with a view to the above. Business-wise (and they are a business), it's a no-brainer!

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A bit disappointing that (new toolings excluded) there are so few models in pre BR livery. Given the number of variants which haven't been done before.

 

Still good to see that many new toolings coming out, and hopefully gw non corridor stock will follow the lms next year...

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A bit disappointing that (new toolings excluded) there are so few models in pre BR livery. Given the number of variants which haven't been done before.

 

Still good to see that many new toolings coming out, and hopefully gw non corridor stock will follow the lms next year...

If my little circle of customers is anything to go by (and yes they do buy RTR as well), BR blood & custard (slightly ahead of BR maroon) has been a constant chart topper for the past 5 years or so. Full-panelled 1923-33 LMS is second. The middle ground represented by simple livery 1934-48 LMS is hardly asked for. When I painted for Lawrence Scale Models 1973-2004, BR liveries were hardly ever specified and almost never on ex GWR coaches. On the other hand, Southern Region loco-hauled stock green was always a strong livery almost on a par with Maunsell full panelled livery.

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I preordered all silver A4s from Hatton's.They are shown on their web site, just as on Hornby's web site, as being available individually. I have since heard from Hatton's that Hornby might just sell them as complete sets of 4 locos, and if so, then they will only sell them as sets, as well. Huh? So, let me get this right. Hornby lists them on their web site as being available individually, but they may not be available the way they are listed? And this makes sense how?

 

Before anyone attacks me and says why does it matter if I want all 4, it does because, first of all, they are listed that way, and second I know there are modelers who want only one or two of them. The Great Gathering/Goodbye A4s were sold individually and I was able to get the 2 that I wanted. If those A4s were available individually, (and they clearly were seen together and marketed as a set,) why would these not be?

 

And, for the record, I am well aware that any responses here will only be opinion. The only factual answers would come from Hornby.

Hi Thom,

 

I see Hattons have them listed individually but on Hornby' site I can only find them listed as a complete set - R3337.

Can you post a link to the individual locos on Hornby's website please?

 

The Hornby trade order form we received yesterday also only shows them available as a complete set.

 

Steve

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Or why not?

 

It entertains me to see approximately 36 separate posts (not counting this one, using two different spellings and including two of mine) on the subject of the graffiti emblazoned mk1 coach. 

 

It has us all a twitter.

given that youve gone to the trouble to count the comments did you also count how many were pretty much questioning this coach?

 

im quite surprised by the unexpectedly liberal approach that some die hard rmwebber modellers are taking in defence of this model - like every model is good for the health of the hobby almost.......always amazes me how they can pull reasonings out of hat rather like a magician does a rabbit - I do wonder if its more a case of trying to be seen as not following the crowds (common sense) and doing their utmost to find some good in something the majority seem to be clearly agreed on is a waste of a perfectly good production slot.   Agreed a BG GUV Blue Grey or NSE vehicle would have been more fitting.  

 

oh and your new tally just went up by +1 if youre still chalking the comments up.......

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im quite surprised by the unexpectedly liberal approach that some die hard rmwebber modellers are taking in defence of this model - like every model is good for the health of the hobby almost.......always amazes me how they can pull reasonings out of hat rather like a magician does a rabbit - I do wonder if its more a case of trying to be seen as not following the crowds (common sense) and doing their utmost to find some good in something the majority seem to be clearly agreed on is a waste of a perfectly good production slot.   Agreed a BG GUV Blue Grey or NSE vehicle would have been more fitting.  

'A waste of a perfectly good production slot' is what many think about the graffiti coach, but what would they have made of the ducking giraffe and other Hornby novelty items had they too been included in Andy Y's introduction to the 2015 Announcement. Short of Andy leaving out the things he arbitrarily feels are of no interest to RMweb members, we will always get the full announcement. It is up to the membership to pick out the items that are of interest to them personally. Who knows, the blokes who chose to buy the graffiti coach might feel an S15 is a waste of production slot if they were looking forward to a vacuum braked dog-poo container wagon or an inflatable tea lady.  :biggrin_mini2:

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Hi Thom,

 

I see Hattons have them listed individually but on Hornby' site I can only find them listed as a complete set - R3337.

Can you post a link to the individual locos on Hornby's website please?

 

The Hornby trade order form we received yesterday also only shows them available as a complete set.

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve

 

I agree that the four off A4 'The Silvers Jubilees'  are not showing as being separately available on the Hornby website,  but they were also shown as separate items R3306 to R3309 (Being Silver Link, Quick silver, Silver King and Silver Fox respectively) on the price list information provided to us at the media day, so it is indeed a matter of inconsistency that they were not on your trade order form.

 

Might be worth a question to your Hornby Rep?

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... the four off A4 'The Silvers Jubilees'  are not showing as being separately available on the Hornby website,  but they were also shown as separate items R3306 to R3309 (Being Silver Link, Quick silver, Silver King and Silver Fox respectively) on the price list information provided to us at the media day ...

 

Interestingly, Andy on p.1 of this thread lists the 4x A4s with separate R numbers, and a price for each of £144.99.

 

Hattons is listing R3309 at £231.47 - a suspiciously precise price.

 

Intriguing.

 

Paul

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given that youve gone to the trouble to count the comments did you also count how many were pretty much questioning this coach?

 

im quite surprised by the unexpectedly liberal approach that some die hard rmwebber modellers are taking in defence of this model - like every model is good for the health of the hobby almost.......always amazes me how they can pull reasonings out of hat rather like a magician does a rabbit - I do wonder if its more a case of trying to be seen as not following the crowds (common sense) and doing their utmost to find some good in something the majority seem to be clearly agreed on is a waste of a perfectly good production slot.   Agreed a BG GUV Blue Grey or NSE vehicle would have been more fitting.  

 

oh and your new tally just went up by +1 if youre still chalking the comments up.......

I'll tell you one reason why I'm 'defending' it (apart from the obvious - to me at any rate - commercial situation regarding it for Hornby) is the very simple fact that in recent years I have seen more of graffiti'd maroon livery Mk1s than I have of any other vehicles plastered in graffiti with the exception of some freight vehicles.  Some on here have condemned it because there isn't such thing out there - well there is (or was) and I have seen such things so they do, or did, exist as part of the modern railway scene whatever various naysayers might have to say.

 

To be quite honest I can't recall seeing any coaches in blue & grey livery - graffiti'd or otherwise - for quite some time although there might well be some lurking in a siding somewhere for all I know.  But at the end of the day if anyone thinks this is aimed at the 'modeller' market I reckon they've probably got an unusual view of that market.  If modellers want graffiti'd coaches or wagons they get out their paints and brushes or airguns and duly paint something which fits into the era they are modelling.  So I really can't see why on a forum which is aimed at modellers there should be such a fuss about this coach - as I've already said it will either sell or it won't  - and the modeller part of Hornby's market probably won't make a  ha'porth of difference to that one way or the other.

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I should clarify what I wrote about the silver A4s. I 'assumed' it was on Hornby's site but it is, in fact, on the very first page of this thread!!! I think it is relatively understandable, (although I'm sure some will disagree,) that anyone could take that posting as being 'official' from Hornby since all the initial info came from Hornby. The locos are shown individually, each with their own R number and price. That post also says the sets are a 'limited edition of 800 pieces of each model.'

 

EIther way, it does not make any sense to me to not sell them individually. (Not that my opinion should matter. lol) Or, at the very least, the retailers should have the option to sell them either way, unless, of course,  they are all packaged together which there is no indication of.

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Interestingly, Andy on p.1 of this thread lists the 4x A4s with separate R numbers, and a price for each of £144.99.

 

Hattons is listing R3309 at £231.47 - a suspiciously precise price.

 

The weird one off price at Hatton's is why I contacted them just to lightly call their attention to their mistake, as in their 'discount' price being higher then Hornby's RRP. In the reply from them they mentioned possibly being only sold as a set, but never addressed their price error. lol

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One possible reason is to sell the A4's as a pack of 4 is because Hornby know a lot (most?) people who would buy them already have Silver Fox, Quicksilver and Silver Link from previous issues. Therefore are they trying to push them as buy the 4 or miss out sales tactic ?. They could quite easily sell Silver King as a single new issue. Perhaps they will end up a separate sales of each Loco in due course .

 

 A much better production would have been the much needed for the ECML modeller Silver Jubilee or Coronation stock which would have been a big seller and could have been issued in pre and post war versions as well.

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 Who knows, the blokes who chose to buy the graffiti coach might feel an S15 is a waste of production slot if they were looking forward to a vacuum braked dog-poo container wagon or an inflatable tea lady.  :biggrin_mini2:

Hmmm ... yes, definitely put me down for a couple of that last one, please!!     :jester:

 

 

[Eh???  What???  How very dare you infer anything smutty into that, Sir??  I was referring to using them in a model re-creation of 'Brief Encounter', as per this month's Model Rail magazine!  And that's my story, and I'm sticking to it ...]

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I should clarify what I wrote about the silver A4s. I 'assumed' it was on Hornby's site but it is, in fact, on the very first page of this thread!!! I think it is relatively understandable, (although I'm sure some will disagree,) that anyone could take that posting as being 'official' from Hornby since all the initial info came from Hornby. The locos are shown individually, each with their own R number and price. That post also says the sets are a 'limited edition of 800 pieces of each model.'

 

EIther way, it does not make any sense to me to not sell them individually. (Not that my opinion should matter. lol) Or, at the very least, the retailers should have the option to sell them either way, unless, of course,  they are all packaged together which there is no indication of.

 

Looks like possibly Hornby changed their mind between issuing the press release and issuing the trade price list.

We would love to buy and sell them individually but will not be taking orders for the individual locos until we receive some clarification from Hornby.

We are located in Canada so our contact point is their North American distributor in Vancouver.

 

Steve

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Lots of writing (understandably) about prices, the old adage ' nobody forces you to buy it' really grates with me because it dismisses some postings out of hand. Some of Hornby's pricing is strange I cannot understand £120 for an 08. When comparisons are made with a Bachmann 08 it is difficult to justify the higher Hornby price. Most people would be hard pressed to see the difference at normal viewing distance. I have recently seen Bachmann 08s for a little over half the Hornby price. Yes nobody forces me to buy a Hornby 08 ( nor will I) because it is not twice as good as the Bachmann 08, it is a very expensive Shunter.

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 Yes nobody forces me to buy a Hornby 08 ( nor will I) because it is not twice as good as the Bachmann 08, it is a very expensive Shunter.

But the last few words do make the point as to why some people will buy it.

I picked up one in a gaudy livery with an advert for a brand of pickle for a very reasonable price.

Way better than my old Bachmann version. In particular it is a better runner for a shunter.

I would think that what you pay for a better model is a case of diminishing returns rather than a linear progression.

That is certainly the case with other fields in which I have an interest. Cameras, cycle parts and Hi Fi all being very much like that.

Bernard

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