Hornby announce Maunsell S15

[bigherb]

 

 

In terms of traction, I get your point, BUT while the load on the drivers will be the same, the contact area is less.... that said my physics is rusty!

I doesn't matter, four wheels will have the same grip as six wheels with the same weight spread over them.

[Paul_sterling]

I doesn't matter, four wheels will have the same grip as six wheels with the same weight spread over them.

Not really though, as tractive grip does not increase linear to increasing mass. In the case of our engines and their light loads, it doesn't make a huge difference, though as the P2 proves, plenty of driven wheels does make for mighty haulage power.

 

Paul

[G-BOAF]

However if a model claims to have 6 wheel drive, or at least appears to be designed to be driven by all its prototypical driving wheels, it would be nice to have all of them providing traction.

I have added it to my list of models to investigate :-(

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

In terms of traction, I get your point, BUT while the load on the drivers will be the same, the contact area is less.... that said my physics is rusty!

 

It is the mass bearing on the driven wheels that is the determinant of traction. (The science is solidly empirical backed up by endlessly repeated experiment.) Surface area in contact is irrelevant for the tiny forces relative to the stiffness of the typical rail and tyre metal formulations.

 

It is not quite that simple in the rigid wheelbase drives of typical RTR, where there are often unpowered wheelsets variably taking mass and imposing drag, which subtracts from the traction of the driven wheels.

 

One of the effects of this is that for locos with carrying wheels, typically the longer the driven wheelbase the more stable the tractive performance, because there is reduced tendency to unload mass from the driven wheelbase onto unpowered wheelsets. It is not 'all those driven wheels in contact with the rail' that matter, but the length of the driven wheelbase that produces more stable tractive performance.

 

There is a simple demonstrator in OO RTR, the old H-D and Wrenn 8F. Functionally a 2-4-0 with the two centre driven wheelsets unflanged and well clear of the rail, but it will outpull all current RTR 2-8-0's except the Heljan items, which are of very similar mass. If you have doubts as to what is proposed above, do the experiment with these items in your home la-yout-boratory

[Jack P]

Bit of an old topic bump, but i've now had this issue with 2 Hornby S15's - oil seep!

 

I don't know what it is, but I cannot seem to get rid of this oil. I left the loco body to soak in a bath of simple green for a day (to take the transfers off), I thought all was well and there didn't seem to be any futher oil seep, infact I double checked last night before spraying. However I've just woken up to this!

 

 

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this? I need to strip the paint off (more simple green) and deal with the oil before I can finish the loco off. I've tried googling it, but haven't managed to find anything yet.

[CCGWR]

3 hours ago, Jack P said:

Bit of an old topic bump, but i've now had this issue with 2 Hornby S15's - oil seep!

 

I don't know what it is, but I cannot seem to get rid of this oil. I left the loco body to soak in a bath of simple green for a day (to take the transfers off), I thought all was well and there didn't seem to be any futher oil seep, infact I double checked last night before spraying. However I've just woken up to this!

 

 

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this? I need to strip the paint off (more simple green) and deal with the oil before I can finish the loco off. I've tried googling it, but haven't managed to find anything yet.

 

Jack, my experience with weathering has been getting rid of the stuff with ISO and going over with acrylics but that is weathering not repaints and sometimes that needs to be done 2-3 times. I saw Tim Shackleton did a weathering article on a Bachmann Class 24 which was covered in oil and he soaked it in normal household cleaner (like you have? I am not familiar with Simple Green) and then vinegar because apparently it neutralises the oil but I am yet to try it. If you do use this method I would be interested in the results.

Good Luck.

 

Connor 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

11 hours ago, Jack P said:

...I left the loco body to soak in a bath of simple green...

What is 'simple green'? My first suspicion would be some residue from this product leaking out of locations where it has penetrated.

 

11 hours ago, Jack P said:

...Does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this?

Research what dissolves 'simple green', and treat the model with that; then refrain from using simple green in future.

[Jack P]

10 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

What is 'simple green'? My first suspicion would be some residue from this product leaking out of locations where it has penetrated.

 

Research what dissolves 'simple green', and treat the model with that; then refrain from using simple green in future.

 

Simple green is a household cleaner, that can be used to strip paint. I don't think I need to dissolve a product that strips paint. I've also done the same with plenty of other models and not had this issue - not to mention Armour modellers and wargamers swear by this product.

 

I can almost guarantee it's not simple green 'leaking' through because the model had oil 'leaking' from the same places when it arrived from Hornby.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 minutes ago, Jack P said:

Simple green is a household cleaner, that can be used to strip paint. I don't think I need to dissolve a product that strips paint. I've also done the same with plenty of other models and not had this issue - not to mention Armour modellers and wargamers swear by this product.

 

I can almost guarantee it's not simple green 'leaking' through because the model had oil 'leaking' from the same places when it arrived from Hornby.

If that is accepted, then what you now know is that 'simple green' despite being trouble free in past applications, hasn't dealt with the 'oily' substance that was on the model as received. Probably best to use IPA or meths to remove that first, before moving onto the transfer and paint stripping process with 'simple green'? This is one of those 'learn as you go' situations.

[John Tomlinson]

I'm wondering how you store your models.

 

Whilst the excess grease applied to mechanisms is one of my main bugbears with the big RTR manufacturers it usually seeps over the wheels and chassis, and perhaps the lower body on a diesel if stored on its side. I've never seen anything creep up so high, as shown on the boiler handrail knobs and smokebox wrapper pics. Has the loco been stored upside down?

 

Soaking the body in white spirit or similar ought to degrease it, keep a close eye whilst doing so to check if there's any effect on the plastic.

 

John.

Edited April 17, 2020 by John Tomlinson
typo

[Jack P]

9 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

If that is accepted, then what you now know is that 'simple green' despite being trouble free in past applications, hasn't dealt with the 'oily' substance that was on the model as received. Probably best to use IPA or meths to remove that first, before moving onto the transfer and paint stripping process with 'simple green'? This is one of those 'learn as you go' situations.

 

That's a good point, I suppose I had just assumed that it would shift the oil! I'll see if i've got any IPA lurking around.

 

9 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I'm wondering how you store your models.

 

Whilst the excess grease applied to mechanisms is one of my main bugbears with the big RTR manufacturers it usually seeps over the wheels and chassis, and perhaps the lower body on a diesel if stored on its side. I've never seen anything creep up so high, as shown on the boiler handrail knobs and smokebox wrapper pics. Has the loco been stored upside down?

 

Soaking the body in white spirit or similar ought to degrease it, keep a close eye whilst doing so to check if there's any effect on the plastic.

 

John.

 

All of my locos are stored upright, admittedly this loco has only arrived recently, and it might've been stored upside down prior to this?

 

As 34theletterbetweenB&D suggested, i'll try some IPA and see how I get on.

 

Thanks guys!

[Wickham Green too]

11 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

That's a good point, I suppose I had just assumed that it would shift the oil! I'll see if i've got any IPA lurking around.

 

Try your local supermarket ...... they've usually got a selection of IPAs among the beers ( essential shopping, only, of course ).

[MrTea]

Slightly late to the party on this one I know, but can anyone recommend a good DCC chip for this loco? I picked up an SR black example last year and it’s lovely but I haven’t got around to running it much because I didn’t get chip fitted when I bought it. 
 

One of the previous posts mentions a Lenz decoder and references some CV values. Ideally I’d like to make the most of the loco’s performance with slow speed running and a degree of inertia on the throttle. Does that mean a chip with back EMF would be worth investing in?
 

Sound is also a possible option but I can’t see many suppliers that do an S15 sound file? I know Hornby did a TTS chip but no-one seems to have them in stock and TBH I’m thinking that if I do go down the sound route it might be better to spend a bit more and do it with a high quality speaker and either an ESU or a Zimo chip?

 

Any advice and guidance on this query will be gratefully received!

[RFS]

1 minute ago, MrTea said:

Slightly late to the party on this one I know, but can anyone recommend a good DCC chip for this loco? I picked up an SR black example last year and it’s lovely but I haven’t got around to running it much because I didn’t get chip fitted when I bought it. 
 

One of the previous posts mentions a Lenz decoder and references some CV values. Ideally I’d like to make the most of the loco’s performance with slow speed running and a degree of inertia on the throttle. Does that mean a chip with back EMF would be worth investing in?
 

Sound is also a possible option but I can’t see many suppliers that do an S15 sound file? I know Hornby did a TTS chip but no-one seems to have them in stock and TBH I’m thinking that if I do go down the sound route it might be better to spend a bit more and do it with a high quality speaker and either an ESU or a Zimo chip?

 

Any advice and guidance on this query will be gratefully received!

 

I have two of these and they run perfectly with Lenz Standard+ decoders. The Zimo MX600R would be another good choice. Can't advise on sound options. 

[No Decorum]

As a general observation, I dislike TTS for steam. The sounds are good enough but they are not synchronised with the wheels. Instead, the sounds seem to notch up, like a diesel. (I find TTS for diesel perfectly acceptable.) Personally, for steam, I like to take the expensive route but some are happy with TTS. I have no experience of Mr Soundguy but he’s well established. He has done King Arthur sound, which might do if the CVs are retuned to suit the smaller wheels of an S15.

 

[atom3624]

Totally agreed with TTS for steam.

Non-synchronised beats of the steam exhaust would drive me nuts.

 

Worst I've seen was for the recent Lord Nelson - at certain speeds it's barely 2 / revolution, instead of 8 !!

 

Al.

[MikeParkin65]

14 hours ago, MrTea said:

Slightly late to the party on this one I know, but can anyone recommend a good DCC chip for this loco? I picked up an SR black example last year and it’s lovely but I haven’t got around to running it much because I didn’t get chip fitted when I bought it. 
 

One of the previous posts mentions a Lenz decoder and references some CV values. Ideally I’d like to make the most of the loco’s performance with slow speed running and a degree of inertia on the throttle. Does that mean a chip with back EMF would be worth investing in?
 

Sound is also a possible option but I can’t see many suppliers that do an S15 sound file? I know Hornby did a TTS chip but no-one seems to have them in stock and TBH I’m thinking that if I do go down the sound route it might be better to spend a bit more and do it with a high quality speaker and either an ESU or a Zimo chip?

 

Any advice and guidance on this query will be gratefully received!

I've pretty much standardised on Zimo - very smooth and dependable. The basic decoder is the MX600 range and is £20. Will easily fit in the S15. Plenty of the sound providers do a project for an S15. Purely on personal experience I have found Digitrains to be very knowledgeable and helpful. Also YouChoose. 

[Wickham Green too]

23 hours ago, atom3624 said:

...... Non-synchronised beats of the steam exhaust would drive me nuts. ....

Just like a badly dubbed video ..... AAAGH !

[ikcdab]

I have one of the Hornby S15 which I bought back in November last year. It has always run perfectly, it has had only light usage. I have been very pleased with it.

This is DC only and it has the blanking plug installed.

Last night, it just stopped dead in its tracks. No amount of prodding would persuade it to go. I set it to one side and tried it again a few minutes later... All was fine and it ran ok. But then later on it did the same trick. Just stops dead, then after a few minutes starts off again.

Today is the same. It just stopped. I turned off the controller came back a little later, turned the power up and then it just ran as normal.

The problem is NOT the controller as other engines run perfectly while the S15 is dead.

It's almost as if it overheats and cuts out to cool down, but the engine has not felt hot and I really don't think this can be the reason.

I have stripped it down and checked for loose wires, but could not find any.

Any ideas?

Ian

[Philou]

This came up on another thread - loco working for 5 mins and then stopping. Restarts after a few minutes and then stops again. DCC fitted too. After a lot of checking all the mechanics and electrics, it was suggested that it may be a dry solder joint (haven't seen the feedback on that yet) that works OK cool and on warming up then breaks contact. Perhaps worth checking the harness and the PCB?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Right Away]

Have a good look at the top motor connection; I had one which became ever so slightly sloppy and not initially apparent on a 4 year old Hornby “Arthur”.

Engine would run fine one minute then suffer intermittent stopping and starting. Fault was finally located by tracing all wires with multimeter from the decoder socket to the loco. Rectified with a small dab of solder. See photos.

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, Right Away said:

Have a good look at the top motor connection; I had one which became ever so slightly sloppy and not initially apparent on a 4 year old Hornby “Arthur”.

Engine would run fine one minute then suffer intermittent stopping and starting. Fault was finally located by tracing all wires with multimeter from the decoder socket to the loco. Rectified with a small dab of solder. See photos.

 

 

Good tip - thanks for sharing. I have a friend with a Bulleid that exhibited exactly this behavior and this was the problem. I've got a J15 doing the same - fingers crossed it will be the same fix for me

[Right Away]

Same here, with an original West Country, Mike. I didn’t mention that one in the previous post as I hadn't any accompanying photos.

It’s an odd fault and one that must be determined with a meter. I had an issue a few years back with a different engine, thought “Ah, I know what that is”, thinking of the motor connection, but in that instance proved to be a poor wiring connection to the wheel pick-up keeper plate.

The wire had been fundamentally too short at manufacture and was under some tension, resulting in a poor solder joint. Replaced with wire of a “sensible” length. 

Life’s never dull if your a modeller, but can also be infuriating when it wants to.

 

 

 

[GWR-fan]

This "fix" may rekindle my interest in getting an S15.  I have held off so long because of reported "motor issues".

[barrymx5]

2 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

This "fix" may rekindle my interest in getting an S15.  I have held off so long because of reported "motor issues".

You won't regret it.  Beautiful loco. For the record mine has always been one of my best runners, even with a basic Hattons decoder.