Hornby announce 'K-type' 1928 Pullman Cars

[phil-b259]

The lack of curtains is part of the appeal of these for me. The painted curtains on most of the other Hornby Pullmans put me off (a pet hate I know).

 

 

While the presence or not of curtains isn't a big deal when taken as a whole - when you are intending to run these cars with previous releases (which do have curtains) does make these latest releases appear a bit 'odd' on the eye. Rather than remove the curtains from all my other Pullmans, has anyone got any good ideas as to how to add them to Hornby's latest offerings.

[teaky]

While the presence or not of curtains isn't a big deal when taken as a whole - when you are intending to run these cars with previous releases (which do have curtains) does make these latest releases appear a bit 'odd' on the eye. Rather than remove the curtains from all my other Pullmans, has anyone got any good ideas as to how to add them to Hornby's latest offerings.

Aren't the curtains painted on the inside of the glazing?  Could this be replicated?

 

Come to think of it.  Could the glazing be replaced on curtained cars?  Or is it glued in?

[phil-b259]

Aren't the curtains painted on the inside of the glazing?  Could this be replicated?

 

Come to think of it.  Could the glazing be replaced on curtained cars?  Or is it glued in?

It's painted onto the glazing before its fitted I believe - and it is quite difficult to remove said glazing without damaging it or something else on the coach (I have been there before). Of course they could be painted on with the glazing still in place but that is not the easiest of things to do with my painting skills. Plus of course there is the need to make them look as close to the Hornby variants printed on their other cars if you want the uniform effect.

 

What would be ideal perhaps is some sort of thin plastic with the curtains printed on them that could be added to the inside of the glazing.

[Jamiel]

While the presence or not of curtains isn't a big deal when taken as a whole - when you are intending to run these cars with previous releases (which do have curtains) does make these latest releases appear a bit 'odd' on the eye. Rather than remove the curtains from all my other Pullmans, has anyone got any good ideas as to how to add them to Hornby's latest offerings.

Hornby Pullmans R4479-4482 do not have curtains printed on the inside of the windows. For example see:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/35913/Hornby_R4479_Pullman_3rd_Class_Parlour_Car_Car_No_34_Matchboard_type/StockDetail.aspx

 

These are the only ones I am aware of that do not have the curtains though, and I only recently found these in the Hattons bargain list, and at £25 each I couldn't resist.

 

I know it is a personal choice, but for me it was one that spoiled the look of the models.

 

I am looking forward to getting some of the new K-types though.

 

Jamie

Edited July 3, 2015 by Jamiel

[doublecee]

I knew when we did the laser scan last year these were going to be special, and Hornby kept me in the loop throughout the cad work and with sneaky peaks of the early shots. So I always had a good feeling about these. 

 

Today I received a full set and they certainly do not disappoint! I like the lack of curtains, as I always found these to be the weakest link in the older models (which I have always loved). The roof detail is indeed superb, and I love the bogie and lower details. But what I really like on these versions are the use of the LED's for the lamps. The light output is uniform throughout and very nice indeed. An A/B comparrison between the old lighting and new lighting does indeed confirm that the LED's are a far superior solution. 

 

I will be doing a run with these in the garden tomorrow at dusk and will post the results shortly thereafter

 

Although not a prototypical run, I cant wait to get these behind the Class 71 when released. Then that really will be "scantastic!"

Edited July 4, 2015 by doublecee

[Opelsi]

Got my rake of five of these beauties and must say that I am really pleased with them.

 

Hoping to see some re-releases with different running numbers in due course - think I'll have another brake!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Me too in both respects.

 

Wondering about the 'mix' that Hornby should produce to optimise sales, as in more brakes and thirds than firsts: my plan is two more parlour thirds, first and third kitchens, brake; for a ten car (four kitchen) K set, and another brake to use with the Met-Camms which will have a non-K Pullman brake the other end for variety. If that is in any way typical, there will be firsts hanging about on the shelves.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

While the presence or not of curtains isn't a big deal when taken as a whole - when you are intending to run these cars with previous releases (which do have curtains) does make these latest releases appear a bit 'odd' on the eye. Rather than remove the curtains from all my other Pullmans, has anyone got any good ideas as to how to add them to Hornby's latest offerings.

Perhaps you ought not to. I believe that the 29 all-steel 'QoS' cars which are the basis of these Hornby models were equipped with pull down blinds rather than curtains. Just as the lack of any underframe truss and the panel joins in the roof make them look different from the other K design cars, so also in this respect.

[Tony Wright]

Perhaps you ought not to. I believe that the 29 all-steel 'QoS' cars which are the basis of these Hornby models were equipped with pull down blinds rather than curtains. Just as the lack of any underframe truss and the panel joins in the roof make them look different from the other K design cars, so also in this respect.

The provision of curtains in Pullman cars was a post-War feature. Prior to 1939, the cars were equipped with roller blinds for shading the windows. 

 

I've just ordered a pair of the new Hornby models of the 1928 all-steel cars for the purposes of writing a review for BRM (Hornby no longer send out samples to the press). From looking at the pictures so far, these cars appear to be in pre-War condition - 'Third Class Car No.' on the Thirds and no curtains at the windows.  

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The one minor fault I suspect with them are the four hole wheels, I feel the holes are oversize. Easy enough to fix with a wipe of filler if it bugs me enough! Otherwise just delightful, and how well they look with an LNER liveried C1.

[davidw]

Looking forward to 10 of these (don't tell the wife)  when the later BR period ones are announced to run behind an A1, A2,A3 or A4. on the QofS

 

And two brakes to run with the Mk1 Pullmans

[Tony Wright]

Just to confirm these latest cars are in mid-'30s condition (see Wright Writes). Thanks to Modellers Mecca for loaning the cars - a full review will be appearing in BRM. 

 

 

 

Also on Wright Writes, the difference in Hornby's rendition of the colours. The top one is a Comet conversion, painted by Ian Rathbone. 

[Hilux5972]

The cream definitely looks different between the new K-type and the 2003 released ones. The umber looks pretty consistent though

[Dominion]

Mine just arrived in Canada.  I have fitted the shorter Roco version of the close couplers and they work a treat. It leaves a gap of about 1 mm between the corridor connections on straight track and they negotiate my curves and crossovers forwards and backwards with no problems. I had wondered if I may need to use the longer Hornby close coupler on one end of each car but it was not necessary with these. I am very pleased with them.

[Tigger]

In all there were 12 brakes that worked with the 44 Mk1 Pullmans. Original brake cars 77 - 80 and conversions from Kitchen Seconds 67-72, 81 & 82. In addition there were 6 1928 cars retained on the ECML services as spares - 4 Kitchen Firsts, 1 Parlour First & 1 Parlour Second. This pool of 62 cars made up the 5 sets of cars required - 2 for the Queen of Scots and 1 each for the Tees-Tyne Pullman, Yorkshire Pullman & the Master Cutler. No pre-1928 cars were used. If a 1928 brake was unavailable a Mk1 BG or other brake type was substituted + another Pullman car.

 Mark,

Do you know the Names/Numbers of the 4 Kitchen Firsts, 1 Parlour First & 1 Parlour Second?

[rembrow]

The cream definitely looks different between the new K-type and the 2003 released ones. The umber looks pretty consistent though

One of the Pullman model types that Tony didn't use in the comparison of colours was the Hornby 12 wheel Pullmans, as used on the Southern Region until the mid 1950s in the wood panelled form modelled. The umber and cream colours on the standard class, 12 wheel parlour car No 96 from the Bournemouth Belle pack, is an exact match to my eyes. The Pullman crests and insignia are the same style. I've taken the First Parlour and Kitchen cars from the new K stock release and resprayed the roofs grey to match the 12 wheelers. Both those K vehicles ran on the Southern, but later than the 12 wheelers, however I will use Rule 1 if I put them in the same rake as they do complement each other for a mixed stock formation, and I'm not seeking pure formation accuracy.

Edited July 28, 2015 by rembrow

[mark54]

 Mark,

Do you know the Names/Numbers of the 4 Kitchen Firsts, 1 Parlour First & 1 Parlour Second?

Going by the 1961 allocations listed in Pullman Profile No 3 by Ford it was Kitchen Firsts - Belinda Eunice Ione Nilar, Parlour First - Phyllis & Parlour Second - 84. Whether these remained allocated as such, I can't say. It should be noted that Belinda was fitted with 10ft Gresley bogies and 84 was a 1931 build car and had 3-part window quarterlights rather than the 4-part on the 1928 cars.

[Tigger]

Thanks Mark, thats great

[Dominion]

Thanks Roger.  I only had information on the 12-wheelers.

 

Incidentally, I don't suppose you are able to shed any light on the following which I posted above but which no one has responded to?

 

Speaking of LNER Pullman trains in the (late) 30s.  It's easy to find details of the Queen Of Scots when it received a new full set of all-steel K type carriages but other than assorted references and mention of odd carriages plus indistinct photographs (in terms of the whole train), I am struggling to find details of the make up of other LNER Pullman workings.  It would be particularly interesting to know the make up of one of those mixed bag Pullman trains with, perhaps, all-steel K types, earlier K types and 12-wheel brakes.  The kind of train a C1 would have pulled after being elbowed off the ECML by the A3s and A4s.

Hi Teaky, I have just been searching the really interesting "Coupe News," hosted by the Southern E group, for LNER and Eastern region Pullman formations. 

Initially, I found it quite hard to search as tehre were so many individual documents.

However, I wanted to pass on what was an innovation for me. 

 

Try entering in your search engine ....  "Coupe News" in quotation marks, and the name of the service you are after, say Tees Tyne.

From there you will get search results of individual Coupe news editions that Google thinks have material on the service you want.

 

Then open each document in turn, and then press Function and F3 simultaneously (on my lap top at least) and type in the name of the service you want in the little box that opens top right, say Tees Tyne again

It will then highlight each mention of the service in that news letter, and let you step through them with the arrow key, or scroll to the mention where the yellow bars are in the right scrolling bar.  So it quickly helps you get to a section that may be relevant.

 

This maybe completely obvious to many, but it was a revelation for me.  Hope helpful, Tom

[grob1234]

Not much that I can add to whats already been said about these fine models. 

 

I finally got my hands on them, and I have to say it would be almost impossible to improve upon them. 

 

I have acquired 8 to make a strengthened QoS service for my proposed LNER layout.

 

A little light weathering, and they will look resplendent. I especially like the internal lights, just tested them on my little test track, and the orange glow is perfect. Very happy customer, well done Hornby. 

[thefin]

In light of the 2016 release information, my interest has been again drawn to the R3402 LNER Queen of Scots trainpack. One hopes that the current release of the K type Pullmans and earlier releases of mid 1930's suitable A1 locomotives (the RHD A1 No.2569 'Gladiateur' from the R2598M concession trainpack 'Queen of Scots' and R2549 'Flying Fox' ) will result in a trainpack to allow an accurate and complete 7 car rake of QOS stock to be assembled. Hornby please note!

 

From my input on the Hornby Booklaw thread ...

 

"The pre-war ‘Queen of Scots’ was the only all-Pullman train to be formed entirely of all-steel cars, which (in 1932) the following were available:-

 

NILAR, BELINDA, THELMA, PHYLLIS (FK) 1st Kitchen cars --- Hornby's R4663 'LORAINE' needs renaming

SHEILA, AGATHA (FP) 1st Parlour cars --- Hornby R4664 'Agatha'

TC67, TC68, TC69, TC70, TC71, TC72 (TK) 3rd Kitchen cars ---- Hornby R4660 No.72

TC73, TC74, TC75, TC76 (TP) 3rd Parlour cars ---- Hornby R4661 No.73

TC77, TC78, TC79, TC80 (TBP) 3rd Brake Parlour cars ---- Hornby R4662 No.79

 

A 1932 ‘Queen of Scots’ formation (North bound) comprised LOCO, TBP, TK(ktr), TP, FP, FK(ktr), TK(kl), TBP (NB: ktr=Kitchen trailing, kl=Kitchen leading)

 

Note: the info is not my own research per se, but I seem to recall it was SEMG Pullman Coupe news"

[teaky]

Do we know which cars the R3402 pack contains yet?  Or, indeed how many cars?  (Though I expect Hornby will opt for seven.)

 

If it represents a post war set then it could be a mixture of types rather than all-steel K-type cars.

 

 

Update - Just read this in another thread, courtesy of Graham_Muz: "It will be A4 class No. 4500 'Garganey' in LNER garter blue with all steel K Type Pullman cars Brake Third No. 77, Kitchen First 'Thelma' and Parlour First 'Shelia'.  Roofboards will be fitted to each car and a headboard will be included for the locomotive."

Edited December 1, 2015 by teaky

[davidw]

Interestingly some of the 2016 versions are list as car no. Not third class. Likely to be later version.

[teaky]

Interestingly some of the 2016 versions are list as car no. Not third class. Likely to be later version.

Let's hope they get no. 77 correct then, otherwise Hornby will be in for a kicking again. 

[thefin]

Do we know which cars the R3402 pack contains yet?  Or, indeed how many cars?  (Though I expect Hornby will opt for seven.)

 

If it represents a post war set then it could be a mixture of types rather than all-steel K-type cars.

 

Update - Just read this in another thread, courtesy of Graham_Muz: "It will be A4 class No. 4500 'Garganey' in LNER garter blue with all steel K Type Pullman cars Brake Third No. 77, Kitchen First 'Thelma' and Parlour First 'Shelia'.  Roofboards will be fitted to each car and a headboard will be included for the locomotive."

Hornby new K types are pre war - the non named carriages are all 'Third Class' rather than 'Car No', so based on the news from Graham_Muz from my post on the 2016 releases thread, the train pack Hornby intends to release represents carriages and loco from a pre-war operation, not post war. I could dwell on the choice of Garganey, but I suggest there is little point given this loco was renamed circa a year after its release to traffic.

 

So, it looks like we are short a 3rd kitchen car for a 7 car set. Ho hum.