HEADLIGHTS FOR 1940 TRANSPORT

[Bala]

I have seen sets of 5 modern looking cars with head and tail lights fitted for sale on Ebay.

 

Are there any 1941/50's vehicles marketed (00 gauge with lights)?

 

OR has anyone fitted lights to any Commercial vehicles of that vintage - any advice appreciated.

 

 

[TonyA]

Back in the days before the MoT test, I had a 1936 Morris 8 with original lights. You would not believe how dim they were on full beam. When dipped, the nearside headlight just switched off. On that basis, any current lighting kits would be much too bright to be realistic. During the wartime blackout, the lights were reduced even further with shielding.

 

You do not say what period are you wanting to represent, but I would imagine this state of affairs lasted until at least the mid-1950's. However, I did not pass my test until 1964 so I cannot be certain and am quite prepared for someone with a better memory to disagree..

 

Tony

[Bala]

Hi Tony,  Searching for my friend so he's looking at a Pre 1948 layout.

 

I had an Austin Ruby which had a petrol pump on the engine block - when the engine got hot the petrol vaporised before reaching the carburetter and the car stopped.  I always travelled with a bottle of water to pour over it to cool it down.  It did the trick so my journeys were all go stop go.  Happy days.

[Catweasel]

Back in the days before the MoT test, I had a 1936 Morris 8 with original lights. You would not believe how dim they were on full beam. When dipped, the nearside headlight just switched off. On that basis, any current lighting kits would be much too bright to be realistic. During the wartime blackout, the lights were reduced even further with shielding.

 

You do not say what period are you wanting to represent, but I would imagine this state of affairs lasted until at least the mid-1950's. However, I did not pass my test until 1964 so I cannot be certain and am quite prepared for someone with a better memory to disagree..

 

Tony

It would be the offside headlight that went out when you dipped. No flashing indicators of course and a couple of small tail lights, usually,but not always, either side of the rear numberplate. In wartime conditions,the headlights would be masked and white edges painted on the wings. Hope that helps. 

[Fat Controller]

It would be the offside headlight that went out when you dipped. No flashing indicators of course and a couple of small tail lights, usually,but not always, either side of the rear numberplate. In wartime conditions,the headlights would be masked and white edges painted on the wings. Hope that helps. 

Even after wartime blackouts were lifted, headlights were pretty feeble; at least, that was the excuse my father used for a near-miss on a tank on a trip from Llanelli to Braunston immediately post-war.

Trafficators (illuminated arms that came out from the side of the vehicle to indicate a left or right turn) lasted well into the 1950s. We used to have a 1950 A40 Someset so fitted, to which someone had added normal indicators, worked off the same relay. I came home from work one day to find that my wife had decided to fit the latter with a 'hazard' capability. Unfortunately, this meant that the trafficators on both sides rose and fell simultaneously, giving a semblance of Dumbo trying to fly...

[PhilJ W]

Two red lights at the rear was not a legal requirement until the mid 50's, I remember my dad obtaining and fitting them to his 1930 Morris Minor shortly before the Suez crisis. Apparently if you have a car built before then that was only fitted with a single rear light and can be proven to be unmodified it was still legal with only one rear light until the law was changed c. 2000. The most common instance of this was the London RT bus which even in service and after fitting of flashing indicators still had only one rear light.

[Peter Bedding]

Back in the days before the MoT test, I had a 1936 Morris 8 with original lights. You would not believe how dim they were on full beam. When dipped, the nearside headlight just switched off. On that basis, any current lighting kits would be much too bright to be realistic. During the wartime blackout, the lights were reduced even further with shielding.

 

You do not say what period are you wanting to represent, but I would imagine this state of affairs lasted until at least the mid-1950's. However, I did not pass my test until 1964 so I cannot be certain and am quite prepared for someone with a better memory to disagree..

 

Tony

 

I believe that it is more accurate to say that, on dipping,  the front offside headlight was switched off and the nearside headlight was solenoid-operated to a dipped angle. I cannot remember accurately when the operating voltage was changed from 6v to 12v, but probably coincident with the introduction of the MoT Test in 1961. Initially the Test was only concerned with steering, brakes and lights, and a vague statement regarding the general condition of the vehicle.

 

It was the change in vehicle operating voltage that took the first step to decent lighting. But at a time when HGVs were restricted to 20mph maximum, and private cars on cross-ply tyres were unsafe in wet conditions, poor lighting was a lesser priority.

 

PB

[stewartingram]

Battery voltage was not really related to lighting standards. Though it is true better efficency is obtained with the higher voltage, as always it was the legal requirements that made the change (though perhaps belatedly?)

The Ford "Pop" was in production until 1959, basically a prewar vehicle. This was 6v. Its replacement, the Anglia with the raked rear window (and fame in Harry Potter) was 12v. Both had 2x rear lights, (though the older car may have changed during its production life) and 2x dipping headlights. And incidentally they were a +ve earth vehicle. Another change in the 60s was to -ve earth as we have today, supposedly to help with corrosion problems I believe.

The Austin A30 was introduced in 1951. This was a 12v (+ve earth) car. It carried on, via the A35 version, until 1959, being replaced by the original (& proper) Mini. This too was 12v, +ve earth, later changing to -ve earth. The A35 actually continued in van form until 1967. Both A30 & Mini has 2x rear lights and  2x dipping headlights again.

Unless the Construction & Use Regulations changed, it was up to the manufacturers to introduce change. As can be seen from the above, they did this in their own time, sometimes during the production life of the vehicle.

Our Austin 7 Ruby (1939) had a single red light on the rear, which my Grandad updated with 2 extra lights on the rear wings (with standard Austin parts). The headlights, originally pre-war in design, had been modified during the war as others have said. n/s mechanically dipping with a solenoid, and o/s only working on full beam. He converted those headlamp cases to a modern type with twin filament bulbs, and patterned lenses. This was a common mod at the time to bring the standard up.

 

Stewart

[Martyn T]

My understanding is that +ve earth vehicles do not rust as rapidly as -ve earth, that said they were also using better/thicker metal back then.

[edward66]

Rear lights had to be two in number from 1954 or 55, most cars had a D shaped light at one side of the number plate with a clear plastic insert on the side to illuminate the plate and the usual mod was to add another D light on the other side of the plate. Up to then the single light could be as small as an inch to an inch and a half diameter. There was a specified distance from the two lights to the edge of the car so many people added lamps fitted to the rear mudguards. There was also mandatory fitting of red reflectors at this time, again many cars had them fitted to the rear mudguards. The single rear light was not "grandfathered"  as stated in an earlier post and owners of prewar cars with single lights had to modify them as above.

The old dipped lights system employed the solenoid on the nearside light which physically tilted the reflector. With age these often got sluggish or didn't dip at all, no WD40 then to help! You could buy rims which fitted the old 8 inch headlight shells and took 7 inch modern lights, still not sealed beam, i.e. had a bulb. My 1933 Austin 12 had large rims as big as the Lucas P100 so I got round it by fitting solenoid dippers to both lamps. Often the old reflectors had deteriorated giving very poor lights but in those days 40 or 50 mph  was enough for the older cars. Probably the worst headlights of all were those fitted to the series E Morris eights and set into the wings [like a VW beetle], they were awful and 6 volt to boot, an accessory maker sold a special rim which set the lights in a position much closer to vertical.

 

Flashing indicators arrived around 1953 or 4 but not all cars had then until several years later, probably the last was the Morris Minor which had "trafficators" until the early 60s and perhaps the A35 Austin cars and vans, not positive about that. Interestingly American cars had flashers in the 40s.

 

The +ve -ve earth debate went on for years but in reality it didn't make much difference, the biggest effect was from salt when local authorities started using it instead of sand and grit.

 

Edward

[stewartingram]

Austin A35 variants always had flashing indicators; The earlier (Mk1 & 2 if you like, as the A35 was really Mk3) A30 variants were always fitted with trafficator arms.

 

Stewart

[vcltel]

Boy do these discussions bring back memories of my early days on the road.  My first car bought in '58 was an MG VA saloon, it looked a bit like the pre war SS Jaguar.  That had the solenoid dipping system previously described on the nearside headlight, I had the reflectors re silver plated as they were hopeless before and not a lot better after!  I can't remember how the rear light was but I know it had trafficators which did not work every time, so hand signals were always advisable.  My next MG was a TC sports which had been fitted with winkers and I fitted a set of Lucas headlights which fitted into the shells on the car and were much brighter and had a dipping beam as nowadays.  At that time pre war cars were very common on the road as most of the new stuff was going for export.  Some of those were really dreadful to drive, cable brakes which pulled all over the road, Ford's manky 6v electrics and vacuum operated wipers - when I First met my wife she had a Ford Prefect, by then I had an Austin Healey Sprite,  and I hated having to drive her car if we were taking another couple out for the night.  Winkers came into play whilst I was in the forces overseas and I was amazed to see them at first.   However the best traffic signals were on the lorries we had in the army - trucks CL Cargo, Bedford, 4 x 2  - there was a cable with a ring in the middle, moving that to one of the three hooks on the dash hoisted a red and white painted steel arm out of the appropriate  side of the cab.

During the war it was quite frightening on the road, pitch black everywhere at night and vehicles creeping along with their headlights shielded down to a mere glowworm type beam, the white edges on the wings didn't help a lot.  We used to hurry home from school as we had a main road to cross which carried buses and army/RAF vehicles  which weren't easy to see at a distance.  How we rejoiced when the lights went up again after the war.

[Derekl]

My father had a 1958 VW Beetle in South Africa (I think assembled in SA by that time, so possibly not reflective of European practice) with trafficators and 6 volt system. The headlights were well-known to be fairly poor on the VW, although I have no real recollection. The trafficators constantly stuck, Dad dealing with that by heavily thumping the middle pillar, a bit disconcerting if turning left and you were in the front passenger seat.

 

We "advanced" to a 1963 VW Kombi (like a minibus, not the camper versions popular in the UK) also with a 6 volt system but with flasher indicators. I learnt to drive on that and can confirm that the headlights were fairly hopeless. The high beam/low beam was operated by a foot switch adjacent to the clutch - it did not make a great deal of difference, as I recall.

 

Family fortunes improved substantially thereafter and we moved on to Mercedes (the one with the chrome tipped wings at the back). A whole new driving experience, if you could cope with the clunky column shift. The headlights were very good, and even absent ABS and still with cross ply tyres, good balanced braking (although sometimes interesting after the first summer rains as you gently ski-ed down the wet and well lubricated road).

 

No seat belts, no ABS, although it did have crumple zones front and rear, as my father found when he ran into the back of a Vauxhall Viva - virtually no damage to the Viva, but substantial crush damage to the front of the Mercedes. He said he did not even notice the impact, other than to see the bonnet crumpling in front.

 

Somewhat off topic, but then so is much of the rest....