A word about Registration Numbers

[NERBOB]

Hi all, one day at an exhibition I noticed a number of vehicles (4mm) on a layout with varying Registration Numbers.

If I may impart an observation from my early days in the Police service (early 70s) that, although it was becoming more frequent, it was often unusual to see vehicles from other areas, although as it was gradually happening.

It hadn't been too long since the DVLA (or DVLC as it was to become known) had gradually taken over the LVLOs, the Local Vehicle Licensing Offices. At the time, the LVLOs were responsible for issuing Registration Numbers to the Motor Trade in the locality they served which meant that all vehicles registered would be specifically linked to that LVLO.

What this meant was that all vehicles bought in an area would not only be registered concurrently but they would have a number relating to that area.

The identifying factor were the last two letters of the number. In this example, KH was specific to the Kingston upon Hull LVLO, therefore all numbers issued would be ?KH, for example (pre-prefix) 1KH, 123KH, 1234KH, 2KH, and so on. (This is where "personalised plates" first appeared, and were used subsequently after initial issue).

In the early days of "registered" motor transport it was unusual, as I first mentioned, for vehicles to wander far from their area of issue.

My point in this brief history is that, if you want your layout to include vehicles, and be an accurate representation, and they are say, pre war to the 60s, then only a few vehicles would be seen on the roads compared with today, and most would have an "area relevant", and concurrently numbered, registration number. This was especially so with Railway vehicles, Police, Fire and Ambulances, Buses, Post Office (GPO, GPO telephones etc), and with Company vehicles.

Our diecast manufacturers do a very good job on this, ensuring buses, for example, carry the correct registration number relative to its service area, but it's not possible to do this with all other popular, or "common" vehicles.

There are other complications to the registration system as more and more vehicles joined our roads, but it's certainly worth some research if you want to be accurate.

Another common sight was to see Garage forecourts with new, "unregistered" vehicles on them (without numberplates).

It's an interesting and fascinating subject.

Best wishes, Bob

[Stubby47]

I remember walking along the seafront in Rhyl, as a young lad in the early 70s, collecting car numbers for my I-Spy book.

 

I think I got over 70% of the book filled from that one day.

 

I still notice older registration numbers and remember some of the areas they were from. Chester, for example, was TU. Not that important really, except when I bought my one and only brand new car, and was asked what registration number I'd like, an 'STU' reg would have been perfect. Alas, DVLC ( as was) prevented such 'words'. I ended up with 'RDM'.

 

Stu

[Rivercider]

An interesting point, and I think it becomes more important in larger scales where the vehicle registrations are more easily read.

 

Just as I have too many locos for my small layout so I have too many 1960s vehicles, mostly bought because I remember them from my childhood.

I have however managed to get a few geographically correctly registered vehicles  (ending DV, TT, OD, and UO, and FJ for Exeter) for my layout set in East Devon.

 

 

I remember as a child that the list appeared in the yearly AA members handbook,

 

cheers

[BG John]

Surely it would depend to a certain extent on the location and the season. I'm sure there were a right mix of registration numbers in traffic jams on the A30 during the summer! It was about the farthest my Dad's GRX858 strayed from it's home in East Berkshire!

[BG John]

While we're on the subject of my Dad's number plate, does anyone do a 1952 Austin A40 Somerset in 4mm scale, that I could attach it to? Every A40 except this one seems to be available!

[shipbadger]

Whilst I agree with what has been said so far from the mid-sixties onward there developed within the motor trade a trend to move some cars around the country once they have been traded in for a new model.  I forget which way round it was but to illustrate this; Ford Cortinas from the West Country would be taken to East Anglia and BMC 1100/1300 cars brought back.  This still continues to some extent today, there are far more Land Rover/Range Rover vehicles locally than ever the dealers round here sold and second hand X Trails are snapped up off forecourts within days.  My last three vehicles have carried Oxford registrations rather than Severn Vale.  The one to really watch for is 'white vans', just look how many carry Yorkshire registrations - that's where Lombard Leasing are based and they supply to many of the big fleets.

 

Tony Comber

[petethemole]

In the mid 60s large numbers of new Vauxhalls from Luton were given registrations from the London group. Unfortunately I've forgotten which. More recently (80s-90s) large numbers of cars imported through Southampton were registered here before distribution all over the country.

 

Pete

[Stevelewis]

Reg  Nos  very intersting  subject  When in my  teens  me  and  a friend  were  like  Reg  encyclopedias,  could  tell  anyone  who cared   to  lsiten  where  a  REG  originated!  And  have  to  admit  with  the  help of DVLCs webpage info  still can!!

 

(My first  REG  wa  5318 RH  (Hull)  followed  by  535 ELT  (London)  both  company  cars  fortunate  enough  never  to  actually  buy a  car  for around 40 odd  years!! 

 

Currently  its  SL13 LEO    An Edinburgh  reg  in  Wales!!  but  actually  they  are  my initials and  one  of  our Poodles who left us just  before  i bought  the  car  so  a  bit  sentimental!

[Stevelewis]

Thinking  about  REGs,  There  were  some  strange  happenings  which  occured  that  I  heard  about  from  the  early  companies  i  worked  for,  There  was  the  case  of  2 managers  cars  in the  late  60s  which  had    ' xxx HAT'  Hull,  registeration numbers  I cannot  remember  the numbers  but  the  snag  was  both  cars  numbers  were  the  same!!  they  were not  based in  the  same  location  so  it  was  a  long  time  before  anyone  noticed  and  corrected  the  problem. With  the  same  company the  Manchester office manager got a  message  one  day from  the  H/O in Hull  asking  what  hsi  car  reg  was! I think it  was when expense claim  was  being  processed that someone  noticed  the  car  reg quoted  did not  tally   with  records,  It  transpired  that  the  Reg  plate  had been  made  the  wrong  way  round  I cannot  remeber  the  actual  number  but  as  an  example  It  should  have been 123 ABC  but  had  been done ABC123 (which was obviously a much older number  by  about 30years)  but  no one  had  noticed  ( or  checked)

[jonny777]

This site may be of use - http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registrations/reg-letters.htm

[stewartingram]

As a bus enthusiast as well, I was well versed in the Eastern Counties bus fleet and its registration numbers (and had the spotting books!). Because of this I had developed a habit (still have it today it seems) of looking at registration plates. 

So there I was, somewhere around 1962-3, sitting at the Arbury Road traffic lights in Cambridge, on my pushbike. A car came round the corner, and I noticed the numberplate. Had a double-take, turned round and read it again. Cornfirmed I was right. 3014AH (or one in that series, too long ago now) which was one of Eastern Counties finest LM single deckers, I even checked it in the spotting book in my pocket before pedalling off! 

 

Stewart

[edcayton]

My first car was a Morris Minor Traveller, reg. no. RAY 515 which I sold on for peanuts. Several years later, waiting on the North Circular for the AA to arrive, I was passed by a Rolls-Royce with the number RAY 515.

 

Ed

[BernardTPM]

While we're on the subject of my Dad's number plate, does anyone do a 1952 Austin A40 Somerset in 4mm scale, that I could attach it to? Every A40 except this one seems to be available!

The nearest model would be the larger, but very similar looking A70 Hereford by John Day Models. Indeed, size apart, the two cars are very similar in appearance, though the front grille formations are a recognition point.

http://zeteo.com/mar/files/cache/b743e017be09b6c26e20bb71d7e375b1_f2563.JPG

[mezzoman253]

Something tenuously related. I think the DVLA missed a trick when coming up with the "new" plate system.

 

The current system e.g XX14XXX has the non-unique part first. The brain tends to read left to right and in a witness situation if you only get the first few digits they will be of less use than if the system had been implemented the other way round e.g. XXX14XX. I'll try and explain.

 

For any given registering authority and half year e.g. XX14 or YY12 etc, there are 13824 possible combinations of the last 3 letters (24x24x24), I & Q aren't used, and some combinations are not used as they are deemed unsuitable e.g. BUM. So if you only manage to get the first 4 digits, you'll be looking at 13000 odd possible suspects.

 

If you reverse the current system to XXX14XX and spot the first 4 digits the possibles are only 200. There are only 40 issuing offices & 5 half year plates with a 1 as the first number ( 2010 to 2014, so far) so the unique set of first 3 letters could have only been issued by one of 40 authorities in those half years.

 

Amazing what you think of when you have too much time on your hands

 

Rob 

[NERBOB]

Interesting stories. It is a fascinating subject and it's getting way beyond comprehension now. However, if you are modelling eras where Prefixes or Suffixes are relevant, it's interesting to note that some letter/number combinations were either not used, or not issued in a certain year.

For example ABC123A. ABC might only have been issued with A, E,J,M and P suffixes, so ABC123D would be incorrect, as would ABC234S. Then there was the possibility that ABC was only issued with 11 - 349 and that was it, therefore ABC509R would be wholly wrong - and they stood out like sore thumbs in "investigations". The combinations were issued to Police Forces, under the "Home Office Directory" indices, with a Home Office stamp of "CONFIDENTIAL" and there would be only ONE copy issued to each Force. Kept in a locked safe as well!

If the Police required to check a Registration Number, in the old days, they had to obtain the key to the LVLO, (usually held at the Police Station), walk across the road, enter the Offices and search through the Card Index. Note the details, lock up, return to the Police Station and relay the information to the Officer requiring it. The "old hands" were worth their weight in gold as often a beat bobby would call in a number for checking, in the early hours, and his Sergeant would interject saying "it's Joe Bloggs' from 52 Main Street, he's a milkman on his way to the dairy", or some such information gathered over the years!!

As a control room operator at a local station, in the early 70s, we had to phone through to the force Police National Computer Department, relay the details. They would contact Hendon, where all DVLC records were eventually held. Hendon would verify the calling Force by specific code words, and would then relay the information back which, in turn, was then telephoned back to me. It wasn't until the mid 80s when individual Forces had access to the records. And even then it was strictly governed and direct telephone links were established to make the process a little quicker. You can almost get more information now, on line, at lightning speed compared to what was available in the mid 80s!

Anyway, I digress.

Good Luck, and I hope you found this snippet of interest.

Bob

[BernardTPM]

Something tenuously related. I think the DVLA missed a trick when coming up with the "new" plate system.

The current system e.g XX14XXX has the non-unique part first. The brain tends to read left to right and in a witness situation if you only get the first few digits they will be of less use than if the system had been implemented the other way round e.g. XXX14XX. I'll try and explain.

I suspect they will use the back-to-front version after the current one runs out in 2050, which should take us through to 2100.

[PhilJ W]

I have in my possession a copy of Glass's registration guide 1929-1963. this gives the time and place of issue of all registrations between those years and I have found it invaluable in dating photographs for example.

[Peter Beckett]

I have just found some of my 71, 72 and 73 tax discs and the rego of my 2 vehicles were Commer Van LNJ892E and Hillman sedan AYF680H. Can you tell where they were registered by these plates?

 

Peter

[mezzoman253]

Peter, Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_United_Kingdom,_Crown_dependencies_and_overseas_territories

 

It'll tell you all you need to know.

 

HTH

 

Rob

[PhilJ W]

I have just found some of my 71, 72 and 73 tax discs and the rego of my 2 vehicles were Commer Van LNJ892E and Hillman sedan AYF680H. Can you tell where they were registered by these plates?

 

Peter

Your Commer van was registered in East Sussex in 66/67, your Hillman was registered in London 69/70.

[Job's Modelling]

I was also looking for more information about car registration for my Northall diorama's.

Maybe the information I found is also useful for readers of this entry.

 

Car registration plates.pdf